MJ

Well said and agreed Bob. I would hope those new to busting would allways follow the standard ways first and give it a fighting chance before any alternate dose methods are tried. As the reccomended standard ways are the majority proven ways as stated to a life with less pain.. On the other hand, Its allways hard to see others continue to suffer and dose time and time again without really making headway after months of trying. Thats when alternate methods of attack with the CB treatments should be tried and developed. I feel strongly that if any aide was given with a few doses of any of the CB meds then there is a method that will work for you if the 5 day periods dont knock them out. I was there not so long ago, though it seems like yesterday since my life was returned to me.. Thankyou. For those that dont know, like some of you, I was hit on average 8-12 times per 24 hours for up to 2 hrs each. Other than silent attacks at off cycle I had never experienced less than a level 10 pain attack untill the seeds came along. I would average daily sleep measured in minutes at atime vs hours for sometimes years. In allmost 6 years now thanks to clusterbusters I have only suffered one short cycle of 6 months and some random hits and symptoms Thats because of my error in logic I believe. I thought I had become immune to the treatments when in reality the meds (RC seeds) were at fault. Different approach and all is well again. The fear is gone.

Its all good next to the old days when we had nothing hey Dan. Not wanting to hijack your thread but... Why the hell not? 8-) Bob thanks for the comments. Wether one is right or wrong its allways nice to know someone listens. A small misunderstanding seems to be there on the tapering theory. Not even sure where I posted that, think it was angels thread. A clarification. and still not sure it makes sense. When dosing this way in regards to AO's comments above. Its not necessarily about daily dosing but about keeping the current dose rolling I quess. I have some difficulty in the explanations as I would hate to see harm come to anyone and dont think its for everyone so I post with caution. AO, for you as the effects of a single dose at .5 (pain free time) as you say lasted for 6 hours then at aproximately that 6 hour time frame I would have taken another smaller dose to continue that pain free affect. You would then not feel the affect as you stated above so strongly. (for others that period may be 12, 24, or even 48 hours for all I know} for many its 3-7 days. others it might be years, lucky bastards. Sadly you and I are at 6 hours. The next dose maybe smaller still would be at the next 6 hr mark or whatever it is for you when symptoms of CH no matter how small return. The hope is that in short order the receptors, chemicals, whatever, begin to reset or balance. If the full affect of the medicine is felt you waited too long and now must wait out a period for the receptors to open fully and start again at the lowest effective dose. For me it is a 6-8 hour period between decreased dosing and 3 days before the good results start to show. 5 days total the last time I tried and then it was 3 weeks before I dosed again, then At a non scheduled 3-6 week interlude as symptoms appeared. Now its been about 9 weeks since last treatment (dose) and paying close attention to my head. It took 6 months of trial and error, lots of research and amazing support from BobW, Flash and many others before I finally found this method to work for me several years ago.. I think post dose hits may be somewhat due to an overcorrection with our medicines and I found with the lower doses I take, post dose hits generally dont occur once the treatment has been under way. I agree fully with BobW's infinite wisdom on that point when dosing beyond the time frame of affect maybe an increased dose is needed. But we are talking 2 differing methods here. Keeping the doors to pain closed vs waiting for them to open and whacking the cat again. I would think you could test this with a medium sput when the initial dose begins to wear off and see if that has a slight prolonging affect on the time period without pain. If so then it may be worth a harder trial.

In another thought; I also think some dose too much too often with escalating doses and sometimes should wait longer. Its all individual and we obviously need to still find our own dose and comfort level.

Dan I am not sure where the 5 day dosing came from but apparently for many that innefectiveness does exist for that period of time. For me I can feel the dose of seeds and redose at just 6 hours, I do dose with smaller doses at the 6-10Â hr mark if CH breaks through, LSD at 16 hrs or less. Shrooms not enough experience. The taper method I once posted was based on this. Keeping the doors closed. Hopefully someone can explain the reasons of waiting further. Is it just group think or what dont know. Psiloscribe or others may have that answer. I absolutely understand the detox period but not the dose time period. As the phsycadelic effects, unless one enjoys them, dont seem a necessity to me to curb CH. In fact I sometimes wonder if its a detriment. I still believe absolutely that most should wait the 5 days as group experience says thats best.

Well dagnabbit! > MJ - did you conclude that there were no alkaloids based on their lack of effect after ingestion, or by some scientific laboratory-ish kinda testing? Kaboom - have you felt any results from the ones ordered from psychoactiveherbs.com? I was the laboratory and no effect. I had some seeds 3 years old that was able to compare and be sure it wasnt just me. I suffered a 6 month hell thinking my CH had become immune to the seeds when a single dose of the HBWR and cinnamon started to fix me. I have not tried pyschoactiveherbs.com. give them a try and let us know. These guys here give pretty good reports. I much prefer the RC vs HBWR for the feelings or lack of, but the HBWR does the job quite well and I have a couple years supply, if they dont spoil. I think most of the current crop of seeds are coming from asia or somewhere not like good old ololiugui from mexico. Growing climates and soils makes a huge difference. David, have you had affects on CH with lower quantities from other vendors or have you allways used 80? I,m curious as I have tried more massive doses well over a hundred but allways with good seeds had much better luck using minimal doses of less than 30 or 40. The higher doses for me just overshot the natural chemical balance point and I would get hit again in just a few hours after the medicine wore off. Couldnt balance the CH chemical scales so to speak.

I had difficulty finding quality RCseeds from 3 different sites. Many have no stock. After trying and suffering due to low quality seeds, I finally just went to HBWR seeds from iamshaman a few months back.. Work just as well as good RC. 2-5 does the trick. Water must be filtered out leave the sludge behind. All 3 RC orders seemed quite fresh just no alkaloids.

Triptans are synthesized vs natural tryptamines as I understand it. LSD would then be a triptan, Psilocybin and LSA would be a tryptamine. I think. Hopefully someone will correct me if I'm wrong. I have been before Xeno mentions reoccurence " it seems to cause more headaches. I find it hard to believe that the manufacturers are unaware of this "side-effect" when developing and testing" I recall some initial trial reporting from the early days of trex saying reoccurence of headache due to use in the 60 to 80% range. The mfg and many in pain felt this was acceptable and pushed the drug through the FDA. I can no longer find those reports, and the multiple links I had, no longer exists on the internet that I can find. A later report from 1992 says a 40% reoccurence with maybe a higher number of people. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1379152 An article for your tool box ting. from 1995 http://motherjones.com/politics/1995/09/migraine-killer

That tends to be a catchy tune at times. remember to hum along next time. hi ho the dairio AAAAAARRRRGGHHHHH Fu%%$$***k this hurts.Â

More often than not a change in climate can give CH a break. I have skiied lutsen. Not quite like steamboat but just as pretty and fun all the same The adrenalin rush can "instantly" abort a CH on the hill if you do get a hit. Go for the trip. Make all the best of it.

I believe that at least in my case clusters are an electro/ chemical imbalance and with gentle persuasion one can bring that into balance. I, like your man used to suffer 8-12 hits every day and night. The hits lasted on average 1-2 hours each at the extremes. Though I generally had a 1 to 3 hours break every day. I have better results with smaller doses. We see that often a hard dose will cause either a break in CH or increase the hits to an unbearable situation then gone. In most cases its all thats needed Angel.  Its apparent that the methods you all have used do, do something, so its worth the effort of one more try only in a different way. But thats my opinion. Do not do this if you are uncomfortable. And its ok if traditional meds help instead. Relief is what we all seek. I truly hope you find your magic. Using only the RC seeds. Its hard I know, but it is the method that finally broke my cycle several years back and I have used it a few times since. Traditional meds never helped me. I dont reccomend this for people having good luck with traditional busting, or those being hit just a few times per day. This is absolutely not for everyone and I only suggest it in extreme cases. It is contrary to the proven CB ways but some of us are contrary to all normality. Caution be aware of what serotonin syndrome is and know yourself. Watch for extreme chills and other adverse events, etc.. The theory is to keep the receptors closed with a very gentle pressure on the doors vs. waiting again for them to open. If you try this there will be no feelings from the seeds but extreme exhaustion may set in for a few days. It can take anywhere from 5 to 10 days. Similar to useing a prednisone taper one can use the RC seeds in the same way. You must know your effective dose( the point where the seeds can cause sedation or a slight tingling in your extremities or face. We are all different in that way.) after the 5 days from last dose you used or when the CH returns. Take the larger effective dose at bedtime, say 30 seeds. The following morning or within 8 hours take a smaller dose of 15-20 seeds. In the evening 15-20 seeds. Each day following, dose morning and night within 12 hours apart with a lesser amount of seeds. Day 3) 10 -12 seed doses 2x Day 4) 8-10 "             " A constant dull migraine type headache may set in here for several hours. Day 5) 5-8.  By day 6 some high exhaustion should set in continue to dose with diminishing quantities at this point 3 seeds become as effective as 50 and in the next day or so if things are clearing start to increase the time between dose with minimal amounts. untill you are up to weeks CH free. If the receptors have a chance to reopen, for example waiting 3 days between doses, then you must go back to your effective dose and that may now be say 15 seeds. Sometimes at that point the hits wil go with a single dose. You should then be able to institute maintenance dosing with the seeds,but only as mild symptoms appear vs sheduled doses. Maint doses will slowly spread out to 10 days then 20 then 6 weeks as needed or maybe months then years.. I have seen it work with a few of us and quite often just a few days can do it. Extra note; in this method its ok to use very small doses of seeds (3-6 powdered and absorbed under the tongue) to abort any attacks that break through between doses. Remember you are trying to keep the specific serotonin receptors closed, The opposite of waiting for them to open to dose again. During this process, again, you theoretically would be unable to dose in a recreational way as one would not feel the hallucinogenic dose affects of any of the CB meds. The receptors are closed. Its important to not let the receptors open and in my case I dosed 3 times per day. Beyond 7 days may be pushing it. The RC seeds will have differing strengths of alkaloids and in some cases none at all, so its important to know if your seeds are of sufficient strength. I have not tried this way with anything other than RC seeds. Know your mind know yourself and be carefull out there.

HI I am no expert on psilocybin vs psilocin. I hope BobW or those with greater understanding will see this soon. From my readings on the subject the truffles (sclerotia)create more, though less stable, less soluble psilocin which may be absorbed differently in the body. Psilocin is reportedly stronger than psilocybin. The fruits or mushrooms have more psilocybin a more stable compound easily absorbed and then converted into psilocin in the body. This is one of those seems it should work deals but some technicalities in the chemical conversion could exist for clusters. I dont know but I too would like to know if any difference exists.

Hi John. Welcome. Never alone with these boards.

Congratulations!

Your story so many of us understand. I Kind of liked the little pun at the end. Seems after each of my kids were born, within days I was in maximum CH hell. Hope its not the case for you. The CH bastard gets upset when the stress of waiting is over and the attention goes to the new kid. Like a bad puppy it bites.

Hi Angel. You guys have come a long way since this thread started. Sounds like things are going excactly as they should now. I wouldnt even consider adding melatonin or risking anything else at this point that might upset the cart. Keep it pure as possible. If the night hits persist try taking the seeds alone 30 minutes before retiring. Melatonin helps an awfull lot of folks but for me it was definately not a help.

Cant prove it but some of the minor alkaloids may remain in the sludge this from http://www.a1b2c3.com/drugs/lsd08b.htm "Indole Alkaloids In Plant Hallucinogens Richard Evans Schultes, PhD. Journal of Psychedelic Drugs Vol.8(No.1) Jan-Mar 1976 The main constituent of the seeds of Rivea corymbosa is ergine or d-lysergic acid amide. Minor alkaloids present are the related d-isolysergic acid amide (isoergine), chanoclavine, elymoclavine and lysergol. The seeds of Ipomoea violacea have a similar composition, but instead of lysergol, they have ergometrine (ergonovine. Later, very minor amounts of two alkaloids ergometrinine and penniclavine - were found in I. violacea by chromatography. the total alkaloid content of the seeds of Ipomoea viloacea is approximately five times as great as that of the seeds of Rivea corymbosa: 0.06% in the former; 0.012% in the latter."

Heres an anecdotal report from Erowid. For the Pain of Fibromyalgia Mushrooms - P. cubensis & Vitamins/Supplements http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=68760

Chad Virtually all of the LSA in RC seeds is hydrolyzed in 2 hours soaked in water. Might be slightly temperature dependent. If you start with warm, not hot, water its a little faster. I have tested this in all directions over the last many years and beyond 2 hours doesnt make a noticeable difference for me. I think it was Doc Sewells lab tests that also verified this. You may have been experiencing the variations in seed content cant say for sure. The lemon juice may have helped bring out other chemicals as well.

Definately strain out the sludge for Hawain Baby woodrose seeds (HBWR) Some nasty stuff in the seed coatings. Not so necessary with the RC seeds in fact there may be some added benefit in the RC sludge.

Great idea. Incredible areas. Not just for clusterheads as we now know other headaches are helped in the same way. I think many would sign on for pain abatement, stress relief and pleasure. The biggest problem may be getting them to go home. 8-)

Over the last 5 years, I most often just crush them with a pair of pliers and crumble them between my fingers and soak in non chlorinated water for an hour or so. It may just be me but I feel I get a better dosage affect this way rather than super fine ginding.

Very cool. We may yet see the cause for the answer in our lifetimes.

Original post modified to protect the innocent. I was a little ahead of myself in posting it, thought it was interesting. Allthough any and all posts made can be traced its best to not assume innocence in posting. My apologies to the party invoved. This should have been best relayed through PM or not at all.

Brenda those drugs you mention and loads of others never worked for me either. Neither does oxygen, not even a little bit. The only one that ever helped me was a pred taper at very hi levels for a day or 2 break There are many who feel they help a lot its just the luck of the draw.

growing shrooms to cure headaches.