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kika

Help for a newbie pls

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Hi

I am hoping someone can give me the Cole's notes version of the info that I need to embark on my first foray into busting. Having ADD is making sorting through all this wonderful info challenging and I am running out of time before my next cycle starts.

I have been a long time member of ch.com and have finally made the decision to give this method a try after suffering with episodic CHs x 11 years now.Now that I have made up my mind to go this route, I am having trouble deciding whether to use mushrooms or LSA. My preference would be mushrooms ( as I have some, albeit limited, experience as a teen and young adult with taking these recreationally), but the process inlvolved in growing them for use seems more complicated than using the RC seeds. I suspect my cycle will start in another month or so   ( at the latest) and don't think I have time to use this method.

I am not on any meds right now, so would think that sooner would be better than later, yes? Once the shadows start I make a bee line for the MD for some verapamil and zomig.

For those of you with experience my questions are:

1) Which method did you choose and why?

2) Am I correct in understaning that RC seeds are the most expedient way to bust?

3) Is the actual experience with both of these methods approximately the same? I have no interest in seeing or hearing things that aren't there so LSD is not an option for me.

Thanks in advance for any insight

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Hi Kika - there are folks here with more experience than me, but I'll go ahead and take a shot at some of your questions anyway while we await the experts. :D

If it was me, I'd order RC seeds and take them ASAP (you could be busting with them in just a couple days), and also start growing mushrooms (for sort of a backup) ASAP.

Now, if you were able to get mushrooms sooner than later without having to actually wait for them to grow, I'd go for those as a first choice. That's because mushrooms have worked better for me than RC, and they seem more powerful to me. That's not the case with everyone though, so some personal trial and error may be necessary.

As far as the actual experience is concerned - this is how it has broken down for me:

RC: With 50 of them before bed I sleep better than usual and hardly notice a thing, except for about 60 seconds of nausea.

Mushrooms: 1.5 grams and I trip like a futhermucker. I may be kind of a lightweight/cheap date.  ;D

LSD: The experience is extremely similar to mushrooms for me - it just goes on and on and lasts almost twice as long as mushrooms.

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;D @ futhermucker! That's a new one on me.

Good points about having a back up plan with the mushrooms. On the rare/odd occassions that I took them years ago, I  remember thinking everything ( including a travel brochure) was hilarious. I am okay with the giggles & nausea, but am worried about feeling paranoid. I have been experiencing panic attacks again recently ( had them years ago) and am anxious about having one during the busting process.

The irony of this whole thing is that I work in toxicology and offer medical advice to those caring for people tripping on Salvia, Morning Glory, shrooms and just about every mind altering substance you can think of  :D

Thanks for your 2 cents worth

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We are all individuals for some this is the best, not for others.

Have you tried 02 as an abortive.If the topomax and the zomig works, with no side effects....why bust? Having ADD could be a possible issue with hallucinogens.  Dont have enough information to say much really, however RC seeds do not have the hallucinogenic properties of shrooms or acid.

Which method did you choose and why?

I have chosen alternative treatments due to the failure of traditional methods.... :o why else would a 51 year old religous reformer eat hallucinogens...lol ;D

Pick your poison carefully, maybe run all this by the doc???

all the best

the bb

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I used RC seeds first. They can be quick, and effective, like Jeebs said. You might not notice any side effects. I'd be in a great mood, and entertained for quite a few hours after some doses.

It also is pretty gentle on you. Plenty of people can bust with RC seeds and it be effective!

They didn't work for me, but I'm a chronic, and my beast still thinks he wants to tango.

I'm now using Mushrooms, and they've given me a number of pain free days. I wouldn't call myself completely pain free yet, because I do still get hit, but I'm able to live again.

Honestly, I wish I would have tried RC seeds SO MUCH sooner. From the get-go. I was afraid of hallucinating, I had night terrors as a child, along with some pretty bad hallucinations from one of my conditions when I was a teen.

I didn't hallucinate with the LSA/RC seeds... But I'm a heavyweight most would say, cause on 3.0g of shrooms the only thing that happened was I couldn't keep busy enough, and the beads I was using as a bookmark seemed to be growing longer and longer...

Your mileage may vary.

Mystina

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We (my daughter and I) chose RC for three reasons.  First, I had read Dr. Sewell's poster about HBWR, and then checked with him about comparable effectiveness of RC, and the evidence that it would probably work seemed pretty compelling.  Second, we understood the likelihood of psychedelic effects to be much less than with acid or shrooms.  Third, we figured that if RC was a lower-effectiveness busting product, she could always step up to the others later.

We chose RC over HBWR because the preparation was extremely simple (HBWR is not), and also because we figured the possible "dud" seeds in 40 or 50 or 60 seeds would compromise the treatment less than one possible dud HWBR seed out of a dosage of 2 or 3.

We did have access to reliable sources of both psilo and LSD, so that wasn't an issue.

She started with 10 seeds just to see what the effects would be (nausea; tripping; etc.).  No effects, of course -- and, really, a busting opportunity wasted, since we then had to wait five days.  She subsequently took 30, and one off-schedule, long, severe post-dose hit suggested that it was having an effect.  Her symptoms lessened after that post-dose k8-9 doozy, and after 2 more doses of increasing numbers (50, then 60), she was PF.  (She drank the sludge, too.)  (She also started using RedBull and O2 for the first time during that cycle, and that combination aborted any HAs very quickly.)

She never experienced anything but a relaxed feeling, leading to sound sleep, post-dose.

She had virtually never taken any of the standard CH meds (somehow just endured two 10-week cycles a year for many years), which might have led to a "clearer" system and more receptivity to the LSA.

With all that said, if we were starting again I might be strongly tempted to encourage her to try D3 and licorice root before trying LSA (those apparently-sometimes/somewhat-effective treatments weren't popularized last year).  Les Genser says the licorice root is out of your system in a day or two, so you can bust quickly if it's not working, and I haven't seen any evidence that the D3 obstructs busting.  So I'm thinking why not go there first?  The D3 seems like it might have some long-term preventive effect as well, and so one can just take a sizable amount every day and see what happens.

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We are all individuals for some this is the best, not for others.

Have you tried 02 as an abortive.If the topomax and the zomig works, with no side effects....why bust? Having ADD could be a possible issue with hallucinogens.  Dont have enough information to say much really, however RC seeds do not have the hallucinogenic properties of shrooms or acid.

Which method did you choose and why?

I have chosen alternative treatments due to the failure of traditional methods.... :o why else would a 51 year old religous reformer eat hallucinogens...lol ;D

Pick your poison carefully, maybe run all this by the doc???

all the best

the bb

Thanks everyone for your replies so far.

Mystina, I am sorry that you have yet to get 100% relief. I can't fathom going through this on a chronic basis. My annual bouts take everything I've got to get through, but at least I know they will end eventually.

thebb, I have used O2 with much success in the past, but would much prefer to bypass the whole cycle if at all possible. Getting an attack down from an 8-9/10 to zero with O2 is wonderful, but takes so very much out of me. Doing so every day, often twice a day for 2 months is something I would rather do without.  Same goes for zomig. I was too stunned to functional safely at work while on topamax, so that's out.

What is it about having ADD that could make busting a problem for me? I am not on any meds for it currently.

I would love to be able to talk to my MD about it, but have a hard enough time getting him to OK O2.Can't see him backing me on this one.

CHFather, good point about saving the big guns for possible use later. I am off to look into the licorice root now.

Thanks again

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I am off to look into the licorice root now.

Kika, more has been written at Len Genser's licorice root thread since I created this summary, but I don't think the basics have changed, so for what it might be worth: http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cb/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1298659068

If the idea is appealing to you, then you could read through the thread, or the last 20 or so posts. 

I wouldn't disregard the D3 either, given the success stories.  Although the thread at ch.com is long, complicatedly ADD-unfriendly, and imprecise, the rudiments are extremely simple.  Since I want to summarize them for my own purposes at some point, if you want me to I'll create a summary of that one for you. Just let me know.  But it's basically give or take 10,000 international units of D3 (depending on tolerance and efficacy), taken with food.  The "author" of that treatment, Batch, also mentions 1-3 thousand mg of Omega3 fish oil and some calcium citrate tablets containing magnesium and D3, but some people are doing well on just the D3, and it's my impression that Batch is agreeing that while the others are nice and probably beneficial, it's the D3 that really matters. 

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What is it about having ADD that could make busting a problem for me?

I was diagnosed with ADD. I've been taking mushrooms. I'm still here, and feel fine.

However, you need to alleviate some stress in your life right now to get rid of your anxiety. Panic attacks on mushrooms is absolutely no fun. Been there done that.

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What is it about having ADD that could make busting a problem for me? I am not on any meds for it currently.

In the FAQ clusterbusters...looking........

We believe that anyone suffering from cluster headaches, episodic or chronic, and other headaches (migraines, BAM, etc) that are related to serotonin activities in the brain. People suffering from mental disorders/disease should refrain from this treatment until further consultation with experts can be undertaken.

I dont know but ADD being a developmental disablility may apply here...it also may not I just thought about it reading your post. ;) Just sayin ;)

http://www.clusterbusters.com/faq.html

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Good advice, Kika. Sorry about the ADD and the paranoia re psychedelics but these are nothing compared to the pain of your CHs. It's true that there is now a great deal to read but it's interesting stuff and it's all about your biggest problem. Just read what appears interesting at such times that you feel receptive to the information and your mind isn't wondering so much. No reason to jump right into the major psychedelics. Start with the effective, legal remedies. And find a Neurologist who is a Headache Specialist. If you have trouble getting your guy to prescribe oxygen, not only doesn't he have a clue re CH, it'll be impossible to get him on board with psychedelics or in prescribing anything for you off-label.

You really should get into the oxygen. It isn't expensive to get a proper set-up and once it's there, it's available for your use when and if you want it. One of those better to have and not need things.

Order a couple hundred RC seeds. They're a major success story. Stay off the meds and try them along with Vit D3 and licorice root. That's not so much to learn about and very little expense. It may be enough - it has been for many, many sufferers.

Should it not be, the psychedelics and the learning about them can come later. Please keep us updated. We care.

Ron

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Kika, how is your relationship with your doctor?  Think you could tell him your busting plan and see if he could prescribe you a couple xanax in case of panic attack?  I bet just having them would be peace of mind.

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Ricardo, I am 100% positive that he would NOT support my trying this. Fortunately I was able to get some clonazepam from a family member for the eye surgery I am having next week, so I plan to save some for my first busting experience.

I am awaiting my seeds at this point and am surprised that I am actually not terrified of doing this. It's taken many years of careful consideration, so I think I am ready.

Thanks for your concern.

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Kika, I think your fears are completely rational, and your preparation is admirable, and that your fears will prove to be unjustified.  As I have mentioned, you can start with a relatively low dose (say, 20 seeds) which is virtually guaranteed to have no psychedelic effect.  As I recall, you are out of cycle now.  I wonder (others, please chime in) whether you might want to test such a low dose now, when you are still out of cycle.  That would give you the advantage of learning something about the effects without "wasting" a low dose and the subsequent five-day waiting period while you are in cycle.

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Kika qoute: " I have no interest in seeing or hearing things that aren't there so LSD is not an option for me."

Are you sure they are not really there?  Maybe you are really seeing what is there??  Hard to say isn't it?

Anyhoo....I have been a psilocybe buster for a few years and it has been working as advertised.  I have recently ordered RC seeds for maintenance doses and to try with the next cycle (if it appears).  I am kind of tired of the tripping and want to see if I can get a medicinal effect without the journey. 

But most importantly, regardless of which one you choose, and maybe you have already got this covered, but make sure you have a babysitter watch over you if you think there could be some issues that arise.  I am willing to watch over anyone in the Portland, OR area and I have had friends keep an eye on me before.  Let someone know and trust them to take care of you.

Good luck Kika, let us know how it goes.

--Shaggy :)

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Kika, my vote is for 1.5 gm of mushrooms. if you have them take them now. Don't drink coffee before you bust. Eat a little something, make some mushroom tea. Have your setting ready. some music, a drink of water, maybe a candle. Don't be anxious and enjoy the relief. you are med free now and have a supply, so I would use the big guns you have in stock. I just use a maintenance dose now of 1.5gm and the effects are a low recreational trip. Music sounds a little better, lights look a little brighter, kick back and enjoy. hopefully you can prevent your next cycle. It has worked wonders for me, changed my life. I thought my last cycle was going to kill me.

Wish you the best

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OK so seeds arrived yesterday, gonna give this a go tomorrow and just want to clarify a few things first. I had made myself a quick reference guide with all sorts of how to info, but seems it got deleted from the computer somehow.

I read on the FAQ that I should start with 4-8 seeds, but judging from some of the replies here I am wondering if I should take about 10 instead.

I know I read somewhere here about HOW to crush the seeds, but can't find the thread now. Take a hammer to them in a baggie? Mortar and pestle?

Do you soak them in wine or water x 2 hours?

I thought someone said they drank them in tea, but seems like I just drink the water they are soaked in. Yes? How much water/wine do I use?

Thanks again for your help

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Kika, the answers to all your questions are here: http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cb/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1290130612

But I will "summarize."  No one can be precise about this, since there are so many variables, including the unpredictable potency of the seeds, which is not related only to their freshness.  The study that was done by Dr. Sewell and others (using HBWR seeds) showed that seed LSA contents vary greatly, and that the only people who didn't benefit from the seeds were those who got too little LSA from them.  At the same time, you personally (like most people here) want a dose that has very little, or no, psychedelic effect.  The problem with starting with 4-8, or even 10, is that you know you're almost certainly not getting enough LSA to affect CH, so you're going to be taking more the next time when you really want to bust.  But starting with 10, and having no effect (which seems very nearly a certainty) will, I suppose, give you the confidence to try more the next time.  My daughter started at 10 and wound up at 60, still with no psychedelic effect.  So I'd say to go ahead with 10.

Mortar and pestle is good.  Soaking for one or more hours in water (spring water or bottled water are slightly but not vitally preferable to tap water) at room temperature is fine. An ounce or two of water.  You will have to choose whether to drink the sludge or strain it out.  With a dose of 10, I'd recommend drinking it.  Some people find the taste vile; my daughter and I found it completely tasteless.  You can drink cold water, orange juice, cranberry juice right after to wash away the taste.

Given your concerns and the possibility, however remote, of significant psychedelic effects, you should be attentive to "set and setting" as you do this.

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So I busted last night for the first time and I guess it's now a wait and see kinda thing.

I used 11 RC seeds, had no trouble drinking them down and just got sleepy. Had some wierd dreams which kept waking me up all night, so I am not sure of my draggi-ness today is a result of the seeds themselves, or the interrupted sleep.

Anyways, thank you all so much for helping me figure out how to do this. Cross your fingers for me that it will prevent the annual cycle from starting.

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Well, making a second attempt tonight. This time I used 15 seeds and soaked them in wine ( horrible!!!).

Here's hoping second time's a charm......................

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Well I'm back  :'(

My first attempt at busting 3 months ago went really well and all was good until 3 days ago. Got a kip 2 and decided to bust using 15 seeds. Next day was good, but this am was a kip 4-5. I haven't been able to find the thread that discusses the rebound phenomenon in the days following a bust, but am I correct that it's normal to have pain result from busting sometimes? I was super tempted to use zomig, but held off. I would like to repeat this dose in 5 days.

I did however go straight to my MD and get an Rx for O2 and while there he convinced me to try an occipital nerve block ( very weird experience). Anyone know if this can interfere with busting?

Also, I caved and asked for an Rx for prednisone which I have refused for many years due to SE. He also gave me an Rx for topamax.

I hate that it has to be an either/ or with traditonal meds and busting   :(

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