How Much Oxygen Do You Use?

[CaptChaos]

Just out of curiosity, how much oxygen are you all using during a cycle? I'm not finding it as effective now and I'm going through 2 M tanks a week. Is that a lot/normal/low in your experience?

[Racer1_NC]

For me each cycle has been different. Most times 5-10 minutes is all it takes. However..... there have been cycles where aborting took longer than the norm. Personal best, if you can call it that, was over 2 hours using more that 2 E tanks and 2 Zomig nasal sprays. A version of hell on earth if there has ever been such.

Frequency and abort time dictate volume.  How long are aborts taking now vs. past experience?

[jon019]

....an e tank would last me approx 2-3 hits and a m-60 approx 5-6. if it didn't work after 15 ins i'd quit to save O2 and ride it out (or spend a precious Zomig NS)...always worked better with an energy drink (never more than 2/dy)...

[CHfather]

10 hours ago, CaptChaos said:

I'm not finding it as effective now

I think it is just the case that there are times when O2 is less effective, but I'm also gonna mention that many people (but probably not all) find that when the O2 in the tank gets low (which could be from about 1/3 full to less), it works less effectively.  It is also true for some people that only consuming caffeine when starting on the O2 (and not at other times of the day) seems to help make the abort more effective.

[BoscoPiko]

1 hour ago, CHfather said:

find that when the O2 in the tank gets low

I have to second this. I tend to think that I need to get every bit out of my tanks but have noticed that the end trails of the tank are less effective. Not sure if this is because you can no longer adjust the LPM's higher or what but find this true. (at least for me). 

[jon019]

32 minutes ago, BoscoPiko said:

Not sure if this is because you can no longer adjust the LPM's higher or what but find this true. (at least for me).

....as the tank got below half full i used to stare at the flow gauge as a form of distraction.... so i could turn up the decreasing flow as the tank approached empty. there indeed was a point where the knob was at 10 (11 if you are a Spinal Tap fan) and flow just steadily decreased anyway...bears monitoring. sometimes when aborting a night time wake up, with no lights, the sound of the hiss was all that was needed. THAT'S too much experience....sigh

[BoscoPiko]

13 minutes ago, jon019 said:

the sound of the hiss was all that was needed. THAT'S too much experience....sigh

Naw. Your experience helps the rest of us... Odd but I sleep to a white noise via sleep buds that is very similar to the hiss of a low tank. Cathartic to me.  Odd ball i know....

[CaptChaos]

On 2/17/2023 at 10:15 AM, Racer1_NC said:

Frequency and abort time dictate volume.  How long are aborts taking now vs. past experience?

I can still successfully abort a headache in 4-7 minutes at 15ml flow. It's just that the headaches rebound after 60-120 minutes throughout the night until I get up for the day. 

[CaptChaos]

20 hours ago, CHfather said:

I think it is just the case that there are times when O2 is less effective, but I'm also gonna mention that many people (but probably not all) find that when the O2 in the tank gets low (which could be from about 1/3 full to less), it works less effectively.  It is also true for some people that only consuming caffeine when starting on the O2 (and not at other times of the day) seems to help make the abort more effective.

I have noticed the same thing, lower tanks are less effective. 

[jon019]

1 hour ago, CaptChaos said:

I can still successfully abort a headache in 4-7 minutes at 15ml flow. It's just that the headaches rebound after 60-120 minutes throughout the night until I get up for the day. 

...only a few cycles with the 1 hr wake ups for me..(O2 always worked better than day time hits!). never could figure what was different to cause this oddity ("normally" 3 daily hits) except sleep being a frequent trigger for most clusterheads (no blissful in cycle naps for 30 yrs for me)....and triggers can be transient. 

...have you tried staying on O2 post abort for as long as it took to abort..

...since CH is likely a wonky hypothalamus...which also controls sleep...a connection to CH is not surprising, and more than a few have found improvement of CH with sleep apnea treatment. worth a doc consult....it never occurred to me at the time...

Edited February 18, 2023 by jon019

[Racer1_NC]

1 hour ago, CaptChaos said:

I can still successfully abort a headache in 4-7 minutes at 15ml flow. It's just that the headaches rebound after 60-120 minutes throughout the night until I get up for the day. 

That would be a "normal night" for me when in cycle. Sleep is a big trigger for me so I don't look at as "rebounds"....more like it's just the next one coming. 

Try staying on the O2 a little longer after the abort. Some report good results doing that. Worth a try.

[Racer1_NC]

20 hours ago, BoscoPiko said:

I have to second this. I tend to think that I need to get every bit out of my tanks but have noticed that the end trails of the tank are less effective. Not sure if this is because you can no longer adjust the LPM's higher or what but find this true. (at least for me). 

Pressure in the tank is less so it won't flow as much no matter what the regulator setting. 

[BoscoPiko]

43 minutes ago, Racer1_NC said:

Pressure in the tank is less so it won't flow as much no matter what the regulator setting. 

Makes perfect sense, although I must admit there have been a few times I've tried cranking it hoping for a last bit of high flow to no avail. On the flip side I have kept it lower hoping to conserve if on my last tank, neither method ever helped.  I do try not to let myself get into a tankless predicament but have been guilty a time or two... Guess that's where the "live and learn" saying comes from

[Cast Iron]

12 hours ago, CaptChaos said:

I can still successfully abort a headache in 4-7 minutes at 15ml flow. It's just that the headaches rebound after 60-120 minutes throughout the night until I get up for the day. 

From my experience i noted that after about 4 times O2 in say 2 hours, 25L/m for 5-10m, it becomes ineffective and have to use a sumatriptan to abort. Staying longer on the O2 after the attack was aborted, did not make a difference for me, as the daily cycle continued. I do not see that as a rebound, more your personal cycle of the beast showing its ugly face

[spiny]

It seems that a hit an hour or two later is considered a 'rebound' by many when it is actually another hit in my mind. For me, a rebound occurs right away if I don't do some post breathing.  We need to also consider that CH changes and our number of daily hits can change over time too. My hits come 15 minutes apart all night if not treated. So, an hour or two P.F. is pretty heavenly. And that is only gained if I sleep in the recliner, not the bed. Prone is BAD!

An M60 tank will last about 28 hours at 1LPM which equals 1680 usable liters in the tank. I think that we may have been told a bit under the full 28 hour mark when the COPD set-up came into the house for my father-in-law.   So, you need to plug in what your flow rate was and for how long. 

At 15LPM the whole time, you will get almost 2 hours from that M tank I think. So, the easy way is to write down how long you ran at X flow and how long at Y flow, then subtract that out. I ran 5 minutes at 15LPM and 5 at 2LPM., so I used 75 + 10 = 85 liters used. That leaves 1515 liters left. 

The less O2 that remains in the tank, the lower the actual pressure coming out goes. I can crank it to 20LPM and be getting only 5LPM as the volume drops. Less internal pressure = less pressure to the regulator and less coming out of it. 

It does not work out perfectly as the tanks come in pressurized at 2200PSI-2500PSI, but it gives you an idea of how to calculate it out. I think my personal worst was a M tank lasted 24 hours. 

 

[CaptChaos]

Thanks for all of the replies. It's certainly been a different beast this time around. 

On 2/18/2023 at 5:12 PM, jon019 said:

...only a few cycles with the 1 hr wake ups for me..(O2 always worked better than day time hits!). never could figure what was different to cause this oddity ("normally" 3 daily hits) except sleep being a frequent trigger for most clusterheads (no blissful in cycle naps for 30 yrs for me)....and triggers can be transient. 

...have you tried staying on O2 post abort for as long as it took to abort..

...since CH is likely a wonky hypothalamus...which also controls sleep...a connection to CH is not surprising, and more than a few have found improvement of CH with sleep apnea treatment. worth a doc consult....it never occurred to me at the time...

I don't usually get day time hits (thankfully) but I will deal with occasional shadows that I'd classify as a 1-2 on a pain scale. Ginger tea helps with those and Tylenol will block it if all else fails. 

I've stayed on O2 anywhere from 5 - 25 minutes after the pain subsides. Last year I would only get one, maybe two wakeups a night but this year is closer to 5-7 each night. 

My dentist has suspicions I have sleep apnea, I will look into this. Thanks!

On 2/18/2023 at 5:43 PM, Racer1_NC said:

Pressure in the tank is less so it won't flow as much no matter what the regulator setting. 

I've noticed this as well, my bag doesn't fill as fast even when set at highest flow. It still works for me but tends to take closer to 7-8 minutes to work. 

 

On 2/19/2023 at 8:29 AM, spiny said:

At 15LPM the whole time, you will get almost 2 hours from that M tank I think. So, the easy way is to write down how long you ran at X flow and how long at Y flow, then subtract that out. I ran 5 minutes at 15LPM and 5 at 2LPM., so I used 75 + 10 = 85 liters used. That leaves 1515 liters left. 

 

This seems right. This time around I'm using 15LPM until the pain subsides then I go down to 10LPM and breathe a little slower for 8-10 minutes. If anything it helps me fall back to sleep quicker. 

[spiny]

We all find our own little 'method'' that works best for us, at that point in time.