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Ricardo

Tumor Necrosis Factor

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even as heavy smokers, surveys show very few cases of cancer? Seems I read here a long time ago that cancer rates among CH'ers that smoked were somewhere in the .3% category.

So now we have complete license to just carefree do all manner of otherwise cancer causing things??!! SWEET!  :D

OK, probably a good idea to hold off on that particular risks ignoring plan until more proof rolls in. Still it would be a nice CH consolation prize to be big 'C' bullet proof.  :D

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Another thought: Would this virus idea be the reason that my WBC is always elevated? 

 

No idea.  I'm not even really sure I buy into the virus idea as it is.  If there are Clusterheads who really do have high TNF related to their clusters I could see it just as likely that it comes from bad genes.

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I'm really glad more people participate in the thinking... Thinking can get us ahead of science... I think so anyways.

spiny, we'd first have to check if many clusterheads have high WBC... could be the reason, could be not, I don't know (and obviously the docs you consulted don't know much about it either).

I read this last night. I'm really not sure I understood it all, me having French as a first language doesn't help I think, but it's highly scientific and I'm not, so that doesn't help either  :P

However, what I get from it is that they mimicked an infection by inserting LPS, and... it seems to show a relation between infection, the hypothalamus and TNF-a

Well, yea, not sure exactly what it all means, but it definitely shows links between TNF-a and hypothalamus... doesn't it?

Someone else?

Just another brick in that wall  ;)

http://www.odon.uba.ar/uacad/fisiologia/docs/nuevos/thehypothalamic.pdf

The neuroendocrine response to infection can be mimicked by peripheral administration of bacterial products such as lipopolysaccharide (LPS), which is a commonly used

model of immune challenge

(...)

In conclusion, the present study provides direct evidence for cannabinoid receptor mediated enhancement of OXT release from hypothalamus, following immune challenge, been NO a mediator of this pathway. Also, endocannabinoids participates in LPS-induced TNF-[ch945] production in the brain and periphery. This effect could be mediated, at least in part, by endocannabinoid activation of hypothalamic CB1 receptors, however, the potential involvement of another receptor cannot be excluded. Our findings reveal an interaction between oxytocin, endocannabinoid and NO-ergic systems at hypothalamic level and this interaction provides a mechanism of hypothalamic-neurohypophyseal activity regulation under basal and stress conditions.

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thats interesting because 2 of my sons "cluster phases" followed a viral attack within 2 weeks ? so are the phases truely circadian in rythem or do the follow the cold flu season and a latent response to a viral infection, even a minor one that may have only caused slight to barely noticable symptoms ?

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I believe Prednisone inhibits TNF.  Is the mechanism known of how Prednisone works for CH?  Prednisone is the most effective treatment for CH although its use is limited due to severe side effects.  Prednisone like Remicade and Enbrel is an immunosuppressant.

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Circadian rules I think. I just have jacked up WBC every work up and no answers except "Don't worry".

Jeebs: We made our own 'old' or 'stone washed' jeans by putting them out in the sun and wetting for days while rubbing with sand! ;D Sure hated it when my older brother got too big for me to take over his old, worn jeans!

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This viral part is scary!

My assistant also has CH now! If CH is so rare, and even more so in woman, what is the chance of 2 women developing it so close after each other?

Contagious??? Scary!!!!!

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This viral part is scary!

My assistant also has CH now! If CH is so rare, and even more so in woman, what is the chance of 2 women developing it so close after each other?

uh oh....I think I might of opened up a can of worms...

I probably never should have mentioned that virus thing.  First, we don't really know that any of us (except Brew and that could be a complete coincidence) even have high TNF levels.  If we could prove that THEN we would have to consider why...and MAYBE, like a big MAYBE it could be from a virus. 

Just my opinion, but if this ended up being true at all, I highly doubt anyone could catch cluster headache.  If people could catch Cluster Headache it would be a lot more often and end up in clusters of the population, something I have never heard of at all.  There is no evidence at this point of a virus component to cluster...If really there is some sort of association then my guess would be our genes give us cluster headache, then a virus bumps up your TNF and makes the cluster chronic.

But this is all a theory, a very imaginative theory based on a lot of circumstantial evidence. 

I really do think there is an association between TNF and clusters, but I consider it just as likely that we have a nitric oxide pathway that is out of control (for completely different reasons than TNF) and that makes TNF higher than it should be.  It could be that lowering TNF levels would have no effect at all on our clusters.

Or maybe we don't even have high TNF levels.  We won't know until we get some people tested.

As for- 

If CH is so rare, and even more so in woman, what is the chance of 2 women developing it so close after each other?

I think Cluster Headache is not nearly as rare as docs have made it out to be, people just get misdiagnosed because Docs think it's rare and are more inclined to write it off as a migraine.  This goes double for women.  A woman goes into a doc's office with head pain and the doc thinks "hardly any woman ever get cluster headache, it's got to be migraine"  I think that as we get more info out to Docs about the true nature of clusters we are going to find that it is not nearly as rare as we think.

-Ricardo

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I highly doubt anyone could catch cluster headache.

Agreed.

I think Cluster Headache is not nearly as rare as docs have made it out to be, people just get misdiagnosed because Docs think it's rare and are more inclined to write it off as a migraine.  This goes double for women.  A woman goes into a doc's office with head pain and the doc thinks "hardly any woman ever get cluster headache, it's got to be migraine"  I think that as we get more info out to Docs about the true nature of clusters we are going to find that it is not nearly as rare as we think.

Doubly and triply agreed.  :D

I'm definitely not buying into the old conventional take on what percent of the population has CH, or the exaggerated gender disparity. Females who eventually do get diagnosed with CH routinely report difficulty getting that diagnosis due to gender assumptions made by doctors.

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Damn I love this stuff. I think there is more think'n here in this thread than in the whole of the scientific community (CH wise) and we are damn amatures who are trying to fit our BS minds through the PHD wormhole.

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I have been traveling down the same path researching everything...

We are at best a cocktail of the primordial soup. It is a balancing act. We are only a minute % away chemically from being savages or gods.

It is as complicated as the polluting of the earth... which chemical did that? If we change the tides maybe it won't hit us. Lets get a boat and out run that. If we stop polluting will it fix its self? It is a BIG system!

What does seem evident to me is that change, change in treatment, change in lifestyle, change in any way seems to confuse the beast. Maybe LSD is so effective because it does hit so many receptors. Maybe we are shaking the tree as hard as we can now, and the coconuts will fall where they may.

Sorry, got inspired  :o

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The equinox is comming ,, my son is sneezing ,, fall is on its way ,, i am watching him closely armed with o2 and imitrex injectibles .. i feel like im on the Russian Front.

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