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New Member about to BUST


Shadesofindigo
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Hello everyone. New member here, and would like to ask some advice as i am at the wits end with these cluster headaches.

Just a little back info on me.. About 2 years ago I was diagnosed with cluster headaches, but have suffered now for 8 years.(mis diagnosed for 6 years)

These headaches went into remission for the last 2 years but have come back like clockwork.

I have been taking imitrex (pill form) 1/2 a pill twice a day since the middle of last week, as I am getting hit 2 times a day this cycle.

I have decided to go the lsa route and will be using HBWRS this weekend to hopefully hit this beast between the eyes.

My question is this: How long do I need to stay off of the imitrex before attempting to bust with the hawaiian baby woodrose??

I have read that many here prefer the RC seeds to HBWR, but this is after the fact of me ordering. :(

After reading about the nausea involved in using this method, i have also seen where cannabis can aid in helping the sick stomach, but I'm not sure how that will work as far as the clusters go, as it has give me kip 9's before. :-/

Any help or insight on the matter will be much appreciated!!

TIA

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Hey Indi,

How long do I need to stay off of the imitrex before attempting to bust with the hawaiian baby woodrose?? 

5 days seems to be a pretty widely accepted figure.

I have read that many here prefer the RC seeds to HBWR, but this is after the fact of me ordering. 

Well in case you still want to reconsider, last time I checked the RC weren't very expensive. Maybe you could plant those HBWR and grow some purty flowers.  8-)

..cannabis ...as the clusters go, as it has given me kip 9's before.

It does that to lotsa CH'ers. Given your history with it I would avoid it like the plague while prone to CH attacks.

Ginger, which helps some with shadows, can theoretically also help with nausea, but I should caution that it might interact with seeds and convert the LSA into LSH. That's just a theory recently discussed here after I found that I wasn't as sedated as usual with RC when I drank it with ginger tea. Anyway as far as I know LSH is still effective for CH, just not exactly a sleep aid.

Have you ever heard the Led Zeppelin song Ramble On? I think that's what I'm starting to do here.  :D

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Hey Bejeeber! Thanks for the follow up post!

5 days?  :( Was hoping you would say 1-2. My plans were to kill this thing off this weekend. But haven't been able to go without the imitrex thus far.

Is it purely a waste of time? Or is it an interaction problem if i were to go a couple of days instead of 5?

My plans were to dose 4-5 HB's, (extracted) wait for the come up, and fight off nausea with a little greenery once the effects come in to play.

One thing i absolutely do not want is headaches while in a alternate universe  :o!

As far as planting the HB's, that seems like a decent ideal, problem is, i'm not that much of a gardener! If so, i might go the shroom route instead. ;D

Keep "ramblin on" bro! I can use all the info you throw my way! Besides I love me some Zep!

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Is it purely a waste of time? Or is it an interaction problem if i were to go a couple of days instead of 5?
Hi ShadesofIndigo and welcome to ClusterBusters :)

Especially with Imitrex (one of the triptans), it's more on the ''waste of time'' choice as this med uses the same receptors as LSA or psilocybin for its action in our brain. Only with lithium as far as I know would we use an interaction warning

If you're not a regular user of cannabis, I would definitely stay away from that, period. Some of us can smoke it while in cycle and manage, but my guess is we are usual daily users of that life supplement. For any occasional user, I'm certain it's mostly a terrible trigger.

I know I have read there are other ways to prevent the nausea problem with HBWR, can't remember what product... anyone? ...

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My plans were to dose 4-5 HB's, (extracted) wait for the come up, and fight off nausea with a little greenery once the effects come in to play.

Good plan, but I mentioned in a thread a day ago or so about the varying species of MJ. Just a personal suggestion - stick with sativa. I tend to trigger headaches with indicas, shwag, or even mids. Try some Haze or Jock Horror/Jack Herer.

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Thanks for the kind welcome & info Purple.

I've wondered if I could give it a go and see if I have any luck busting this cycle, but I sure didn't want an interaction problem.

These past 2 weeks have been the first time i have taken Immitrex. Had it left over from a couple of years ago, when my neurologist finally diagnosed me with CH's (at the end of my cycle). At this point i don't know what I would have done without it. He also had me taking Depakote daily since then, but told me it was possible they would just go away. :-? I started tapering off of the Depakote, as it made me feel so lethargic & tired a lot of the time. Not sure if i should start back or not. Would be a heaven send if i could just "seed it up" a couple of times a year, and lead a normal life.

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Try some Haze or Jock Horror/Jack Herer. 

Would love to Kymera! Actually, what i have come across seems to be some very good hydro, but I'm not so sure the species. I do know it's not shwag or even mid by the looks.

I do smoke casually, but, the last time i went there (i'm sure it was mid), it turned the volume up to a 9 or 10, so i have avoided it.

If only Shrooms or Lsd was as available as the green, I would be in business!  :D

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Have you read up on all the information on oxygen, that has been a huge tool in my detoxing from the imitrex. 

Yes I have Tucker. I wish i actually had some. I have never tried it as an abortive, but have read all of the good things about it.

For some reason it is a pain getting the doc to prescribe me some. Hoping there may come a time when I don't need anything but some sort of preventative.

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For some reason it is a pain getting the doc to prescribe me some.

Well yeah those docs, they can be pretty jerky.  :-?

A lot of CH'ers end up just bypassing the a-hole doctor and getting their O2 from a local welding supply place.

Here's some more info on welding O2 for CH if you get interested in going that route:http://morrobayphotos.com/ch/O2primer.htm

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Here's some more info on welding O2 for CH if you get interested in going that route:http://morrobayphotos.com/ch/O2primer.htm

Bejeeber!  You the man! Who knew those two would be so close to being the same.

I never thought i could get my hands on an 02 tank that I could actually use for that kind of price.

Thanks a lot !

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Yesterday was a great day, until about 9:00. :'(

I went all day without taking immitrex, and was feeling great. I actually thought I may be at the end of this, stupid me.

One came on at 9, and lemme tell you guys, it was a real humdinger. The pain was so intense, by the time i had taken the medication it had already become full blown. There was no stopping this one. I curled up fetal position in the bed, rotating Ice/heat pad, punching the bed, crying, got up pacing, went outside, threw up the other half of trex i had taken 30 minutes prior.(seemed to make things worse)I was completely stopped up on one side. The "why me" had set in real well by now. Around 11:30 I felt the immitrex start kicking in a little, and made it somewhat bearable. The relief would last about 15 seconds until an excruciating wave would come around and hit lasting around 3-4 seconds or so. I realized there was nothing i could do, so I just laid there, kind of inviting the pain in a disgusted way.

This went on until after 12, when I finally just passed out/blacked out. Not sure if what i had was a rebound headache or what.

So it's back on the immitrex for me. Which kind of sux, because I really wanted to give busting this thing a try this weekend.

Also, I want to say how great it is to be able to explain this in a forum where people understand. the wife was really worried about me last night, and was wanting to carry me to the ER. She's seen me go through these before, although it's been a few years. Not many people can understand the pain associated with this, and i wanna say thanks to the ones that allow me to vent about this awful bas..rd.

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Shades,

Sorry to hear you're having such a bad time of it.  I (and many others) will definitely stress O2, O2, O2... It's the only way I could detox to bust.  It works about as good as trex without any of the aweful side effects and you can use it over and over and over, with no toxicicity issues like trex.

PFW,

Jeff

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Ugh a 3+ hour whopper. Those'll test anyone's limits. An experience so powerfully FECKED in a way words can't adequately describe.  >:(

I suppose the enthusiasm here for the O2 as an abortive has become pretty evident by now ;D, and at this point I'm thinking that maybe I should add that in a situation where O2 is not possible, and imitrex is chosen, the injection form tends to work MUCH more effectively (and quickly!!) for us CH'ers than the pill form does.

The inhalers can work too, but this imitrex injection tip describes how to use partial doses very effectively and reduce side effect/rebound risk while con$erving supply in the process:

http://www.clusterheadaches.com/imitrex.html

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Also, I want to say how great it is to be able to explain this in a forum where people understand

Yeah, it was what I appreciated most posting here and CB.com for the first times. Most of us were alone for so many years, no one around understanding... Feel free to write all your terrors. You'll be read and understood.

I feel much stronger now. I'm not only not alone anymore, I'm actually starting to understand what's been happening to me for 32 years and it's quite a feeling.

Busting works, Shadesofindigo, and it also helps me to consider CH more as part of me that I have to work on than something exterior attacking me. That helps me a lot.

If you are to use triptans (Imitrex), it has to be injection or nasal spray. Pills won't help because you have to abort the hit at the start, and pills cannot do that.

Same with any abortives, and general advice is that it's the same with O2. Myself, I never had the chance to use o2. My abortives are coffee (3 strong ones) and Ice... Ice the Great. When I discovered that 12 years ago, it turned my life around. But O2, Ice or coffee (or energy drinks, same), same as with Imitrex (or any triptan) : it's got to act at the start of the attack or else it gets out of control.

I'm certain it's better to avoid triptans. Busting works. Hang on, focus on other abortives for 5 days. Difficult 5 days, then expect rebounds from busting... but it's all worth it on the long run.

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Hey thanks for all of the replies guys! I appreciate it!

I took the advice and finally got me one. It's probably not the biggest tank I would have preferred (I think it only holds 2 hours), but at this point for me, beggars can't be choosers. I'm very green on how to go about using this thing. It has the nose tubes, which I'm sure won't provide much help as i will need a non re-breather mask from what I've read. I also know that i will need a regulator, but I have a few questions though:

1) At the top of the tank there is this dial that goes from 0-8. And I think it clicks in 1/2 increments. Will I use this? Will the regulator replace it?

2) The nose tubes: Will any Non Re-breather mask replacement work with this setup?

3)This tank has a gauge on it already. Will the regulator replace this as well?

Thanks in advance! Don't know what i would do without the help from people in this forum. you guys are a life savor for me! :)

post-2940-14384707291014_thumb.jpg

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Hi Shades,

You are almost there. The green thing with the dial os your regulator. The adjustment tells you the flow rate and you which is 0-8 lpm (liters per minute), You need a flow rate of 15lpm in order to kick the attack. Also the nose peice (called a Nasal canula) is also inneffective. A non-rebreather mask is a face mask that covers your mouth and nose and has a bag attached to the bottom of the mask. That tank would last me one or two attack before it is empty. Try to find the H- sized tank if possible, Thats good for 8 hours of )2 at 15lpm. I go thru several H tanks a week, but get attacked 12-14 times/day. Hope this helps.

Lee

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Hey Shades!

Those pesky nose tubes'll be replaced by the non-rebreather mask - it will be a simple swap out.

Your high flow regulator will replace the regulator that's on there now with it's gauge and dial. It will likely look similar but the dial will go much higher!

Your current regulator goes to 8 LPM, a low flow indeed (I suggest getting 25 LPM minimum regulator or demand valve system), but if you're sitting there getting hit while still waiting for your new regulator and/or mask, it could be worth a try to use it as is, as depending on the severity of the hit and how close it is caught to onset, some CH'ers can actually get some relief with this for the first few times or so that they try it.  :)

The 'ol energy drink or shot chugged at onset can help the O2 become more effective too.  8-)

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Heres a good tip until you get your mask.

http://www.clusterheadaches.com/O2/index.html

If you donÂ’t have a non-rebreathing mask

The nose canula CAN work, if used this way: Do not put it in your nose. Put it in your mouth, close your lips around it, and inhale.  Open your mouth to exhale, and then close your lips, again, around it to inhale.  Breathe only through your mouth.  Do not inhale any “room air” only the O2.

http://www.clusterheadaches.com/O2/index.html

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Here is what worked for me until I got the appropriated set up. Take a one gallon lock baggie and punch a small hole in the bottom and insert the tube and tape it then cut a hole in the top and insert some sort of a larger tube to use to inhale with (at least the size of your thumb). Turn your flow up as high as possible (8) let your bag fill up, it will take about 15 seconds or so. Once it fills up inhale as much as possible and hold it in your lungs while you wait for the bag to fill, when it is about 3/4 of the way full again exhale out everything in your lungs and repeat, I do this until I feel the pain gone and then I breathe at a regular pace that much time again. Hope this helps.

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Shades,

Tucker is dead on about the temporary setup. It works. But, don't expect two hours from that little tank. It will make the 2 hours maybe with flow of 8LPM.

Also, to avoid a follow-up hit, stay on the tank after the pain is gone for the same amount of time it took to kill the hit. To conserve O2, this follow-up period will often be at a lower flow since you are not in pain and hyperventilating anymore.

You want to exhale with force and inhale VERY deeply at the beginning. This brings your O2 up faster and can (will) abort the hit sooner. Pull your diaphragm down and expand your chest on the inhale and squeeze hard on the exhale. Personally, focusing on proper breathing at the beginning helps me with the pain. I think of a beach ball expanding and contracting. As the pain lessens, my breathing naturally slows and O2 consumption is reduced.

All the Best,

spiny

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