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Magic Mushrooms not working anymore


UncleGootz
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Hi fellow clusterheads,

I've been a clusterhead for 8 years now, 5 of them were undiagnosed! After 2 years of countless meds that never worked I found out about magic mushrooms and the possibility of helping with cluster headaches! At the end of my rope I figured what the hell? If it killed me at least I wouldn't be in pain anymore. I ate them and I was reborn! The pain was gone a slight shadow but no pain. I went a week with nothing no pain or shadows but then it came back. I ate more and my cluster was completely gone for 1 year up until last week. I did the same dose as before and felt great and it took the pain away until I went to sleep and was awaken almost instantly with a bad cluster attack. I tried again the following day with the same results. I haven't had more than 2 hrs of sleep a night in over a week and I'm puzzled to why it isn't helping me anymore the way it did! Can anyone help me or at least give me answers to why this wouldn't work after such great success the first time? I used to be scared of Freddie Krueger when I was a child never knowing that when I got older I would meet a nightmare that was much worse! :(

Thanks in advance

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UncleG, I'd say that things worked out wonderfully well for you last time, but you might have to be more patient this time -- it usually takes several doses to knock out a cycle.  Also, as I read it, last time you waited about a week between doses but this time you dosed two nights in a row.  The very strong belief here would be that the second dose didn't really help you, because of the phenomenon known as "shutting the door," in which a dose prevents subsequent doses from reaching the right receptors for about five days.  So, you have to wait five days to be sure the next dose is going to help you.  See http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cb/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1290130968

Also . . . are you "detoxed" from all meds that might block busting, including opiates and the "standard" CH meds such as imitrex, verapamil, prednisone, etc?   See http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cb/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1290130731  I see Jeebs has already addressed this

Okay, so in addition to busting, you want to get some other ducks lined up to help you.  Drink an energy drink (Monster, Red Bull, etc.) or an energy shot (5 Hour Energy, 6 Hour Power) at the first sign of an attack.  Some people say the colder the better.  You can go for coffee, too, but most people think the energy drinks are better.

GET OXYGEN!.   Read about that by clicking on the MENU tab at the left side of this page.

Try melatonin at bedtime -- 6-9 mg to start with and work up to see what works.  Some folks here take 20-30 mg.

Don't eat foods with MSG (monosodium glutamate) in them.

Other folks will have other thoughts.

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Excellent advice from CHFather.

I would add my favourite saying about Clusters. 'No two people's clusters are exactly alike, and just as soon as you figure out what works for yours, it changes the rules.'

What worked last time won't always work this time. So like CHFather said, hit it with everything you can until one works.

The 5 day gap between taking mushrooms is pretty important, otherwise your just wasting good mushroom. You can also mix it up a bit by alternating with Rivea Corymbosa seeds. I find alternating between the two works pretty well, as the body quickly adapts to one form or the other.

Find your triggers. Eliminate different things from your diet to see if anything is triggering them or making them worse, but you probably know that already. I'm fine with most things that trigger clusters in others, like MSG and alcohol. But that seems to be pretty rare. What I can't cope with is sudden cold, so CHFather's suggestion of a really cold drink terrifies me.

And while you're trying to kill time, waiting for when you can take that next dose of shrooms, read up on the ClusterBuster Files section. Lots of good information in there that will help.

Good luck

MG

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Thanks a lot guys, I joined this site yesterday and I'm a little disappointed I didn't join it 3 years ago! All of the advice was extremely helpful and its always good to hear it from other cluster heads who know what it's like. I understand that this will be a constant battle in my life and the beast is always waiting for the right moment to attack. I have little to no knowledge on RC seeds, what is it? And how do I try and get that?

Thank you so much

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UncleG, here's some basic info about RC: http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cb/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1290128974  The info there about how many seeds to take is quite a bit lower than what we have learned since those files were posted -- I think most people start with at least 30 and often end up taking 50-60 in later doses.   For most people there are no, or virtually no, psychedelic effects.  You can get RC legally lots of places.  Here are two: www.tranceplants.net and www.psychoactiveherbs.com.

Consider the "vitamin D3" regimen too.  A lot of people attribute very good results to it.  Inexpensive, probably healthy for you, and effective.  http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cb/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1314134804

Like Moxie says, there are always nuances to how these various things work best for individuals.  Keep asking questions and letting us know what you're doing, and how you're doing.

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Hey Unc, Glad to see you're receiving such excellent advice, and if there's one universal truth about the CH experience, this unfortunately seems to be it:

'No two people's clusters are exactly alike, and just as soon as you figure out what works for yours, it changes the rules.'
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What about your busting material, is it "fresh". Mushrooms will not keep their psilocybin indefinitively.

Luckily, if I understood correctly you still have the RC seeds and Vitamin D to discover. I can also warmly recommend Liquorice Root protocol as well:

https://sites.google.com/site/hortoninneuralgia/resurssit/englanti/liquorice-root-protocol

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The mushrooms are extremely potent. I have looked in to seeds and ordered a batch online. I will be looking in to oxygen as well. I tried mushrooms last night again it was 6 days since my last dose and I was able to sleep with the help of melatonin. I had a attack around 10 am at work it was about a 5. So I was able to mask the pain! I'm so happy to find you guys and have a very supportive girlfriend things don't seem so dark anymore and I don't feel alone in this extremely difficult fight!

As my girlfriend always tells me

Keep your head up god gives his hardest battles to his toughest soldiers!

Thank everyone for their replies and keep them coming I'm always willing to try new things and learn new ways to fight the beast!

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Update........

I went to see my doctor and he wasn't willing to give me oxygen for my CH. but he did prescribe me imatrix nasal spray and valproic acid. Two questions, how will that help if it does? And will it block my busting with RC seeds/mushrooms? I've been taking it for 3 days now and no >:(

Relief!

Pls help

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I can't tell you how much this makes me feel like screaming and crying.  I've ranted so many times that I don't have it in me.  How can these feckers prescribe things with nasty side effects and refuse to prescribe oxygen, more effective with no side effects. 

And, yes, at least the imitrex will probably block busting. 

If you're willing to fight for the O2, I have some suggestions (the simplest of which is to find a doc who will prescribe it -- one person here called a bunch of walk-in clinics and just asked whether they'd prescribe O2 for CH).  You can look on this list and see if there's a recommended doc near you: http://clusterbusters.com/?page_id=455.  You can get welding oxygen and set up your own system, which is something many people have to resort to.  Or go back to your doc armed with info and demand O2.  Let us know which if any of these options you'll consider, and we'll follow up with you.

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Agreed with CHf, including the feckers part.  :-/

.....imatrix nasal spray and valproic acid. ...........how will that help if it does?.....

Imitrex is an abortive that you take right at onset of an attack. The inhaler version is pretty darn effective, the injection form is very darn effective. Some of the caveats are the possible side effects including rebound attacks, and the definite bust blocking.

Valporic acid, AKA Depakote, is not what I think of as the first preventative drug usually tried for CH. Verapamil is more common (so much so that I incorrectly recalled that it was valporic acid for a minute there and posted a rambling opinion on it, which I've now edited out).  :-[ :P

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What should I do?

I'm not going to claim I have the definitive answer for you, but I can say that if it was me, I'd be prioritizing getting set up with high flow 100% O2 of the welding variety.

Even if you were to stick with the meds, you'd want to still abort as many attacks as possible with the O2.

And the O2 is what has helped so many headbangers get through their detox before busting.

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What Jeebs said -- O2, either via welding oxygen or via prescription in one of the ways I suggested.  You might want to stick with that plus your prescribed meds to ride out this cycle, also including energy drinks, melatonin, the D3 regimen, licorice root, or whatever else will help.  RC is not likely to be miraculous for you (just as psilo is not likely to be, even though it worked so well for you the first time), so it seems like you'd have to endure a lot of CH pain over the long run if you dropped your meds in order to try busting and nothing to replace them.  But O2 + energy drinks + those other things I mentioned, none of which will block busting, could enable you to reduce the frequency/severity of your attacks enough that you could drop the meds and bust.  My two cents.

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  • 3 months later...

WOW!  It is so great to find this site!  I have been suffering from CH for 24 years now with very few breaks in my cycles.  This site seems to have to best and most knowledgeable info.  I don't have insurance anymore and Imitrex injections are way out of my budget. As many of us have learned (and this isn't for everyone) Imitrex injection seem to stop the attack but not break the cycle. Although well worth it, at $100 per injection which is the cost for me without insurance I can't afford them.  I did my first dose of mushrooms yesterday but still got an attack today.  I will be doing another dose in 5 days and hopefully combined with the rest on my CH regiment I can break this cycle.  Thanks everyone for your advice!

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with the rest on my CH regiment

Welcome, 'Scratcher.  Glad you found this site.  The folks here are great.  What is the rest of your CH reg?  Some things can block busting, and you have to "detox" from them for five days before the psychedelics can be effective.  Imitrex is one of those things.

Read the files in the "ClusterBusters Files" section of this board (the numbered ones by TommyD, particularly) -- they'll give you a rundown on all the basics.  But also be sure to let us know how you're doing, and what you're doing -- there's a lot of practical advice to be gained from the folks here.  It might be good if you mentioned the size of your mushroom dose -- 1 - 1.5 grams of dried shrooms is the most commonly suggested first dose.

Are you using oxygen?  You can set up a system without insurance.  See the "Oxygen Page" under the MENU tab at the left for more info, and then . . . you know . . . ask questions if there's more you want to know.

Also -- though maybe you won't need this -- there are some tricks for extending imitrex.  Here's a link to one of them: https://www.clusterheadaches.com/cb/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1361807077  (Imitrex does definitely block busting, though, as I mentioned.)

Stay in touch.

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Headscratcher - make it worth while and do a big dose ... don't mess around - you need to do like a 2.5 or even 3 grams and see if that helps. Thats what I found worked for me. I am actually trying testosterone injections right now. We will see how that goes , so far so good. It isn't just the testosterone it also takes some other things to get this to work. Best of luck...

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CHfather, Thanks for your interest and help! My current Reg is Verapamil 120MG per day, Melatonin 30MG an hour before bed, 0.1% Capsaicin Cream a little in each nostril (Burns like heck and seems to be more of a distraction like rubbing your head).  Since I am now trying the mushrooms I will stop the Verapamil and Melatonin and see if that helps.  I am also going to look into the no insurance oxygen you talked about.  Not sure of the dose of mushrooms because they were pre-made chocolates but they seemed strong. Thanks again!

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I think you might be able to get by while continuing on the verap.  Good to get off it, but not necessary (I don't think) at the level you're taking.   

Setting up an O2 system using welding oxygen seems like it should be a top priority, and you can probably get that done pretty quickly.  We can walk you through it.  If you live anywhere near a supplier of welding O2 (and particularly a Harbor Freight store), you might be able to get the core elements, a tank and a regulator, pretty quickly, but you'll need a mask.  Folks here will tell you that the O2ptimask is worth the extra cost: '>http://www.clusterheadaches.com/khxc

   

You don't have to stop the melatonin.  You might want to consider the "vitamin d3" approach that has helped a lot of people.  You might or might not want to hold off on that until you've seen the results of your mushroom "busting," so you're trying only one new thing at a time.  https://www.clusterheadaches.com/cb/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1314134804

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To all without oxygen...

I have a great deal of sorrow in my heart reading about people without this life-changing treatment. I have been with the beast 38 years, and I spent the first 8 years without it. I can't even imagine doing that now. I start to get panic attacks when I run out, because I know it will mean long painful attacks.

I also have nothing but frustration for those who ignore our advise to make it their first priority. We are brought up thinking we have to let doctors decide what is best for us. That for the most part is true, unless you have a very rare condition that most doctors have no clue about, and are usually reading outdated material to find out how to treat you. You must see a headache specailist neurologist for correct diagnosis and treatment. But oxygen is oxygen, you breathe it everyday, and it is the safest treatment we have bar none. So do yourself a favor and listen to those who do have a clue. Read the oxygen files carefully, and make it your first priority, no matter how you have to get it.

http://morrobayphotos.com/ch/4step/

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very well spoken Diamond Maker!!! I could not agree with you more.  I panic when my oxygen level is low as well,  with that being said I do not let my oxygen level get low.  If you are suffering with Clusters and you don't have Oxygen you are missing out on the best thing ever for our condition.  Its not a treatment for clusters...Its the main treatment for clusters!!!!!

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I can always start back after if I don't see any change. 
  Just keep in mind that many people see no major change from the first dose or two (or even three or more).  In fact, it's not uncommon for people to experience "post-dose hits," or "slapbacks," in which attacks after dosing are more severe than usual, and/or at unusual times.  So it's good to at least have that O2 in place for the days between dosing.
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