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clankfu

Cannabis - Sativa or Indica?

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I've heard some people have had some success treating the beast with cannabis but I'm seeing conflicting reports as to whether sativas or indicas are better for clusters.  Any thoughts?

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I think its something you will just have to experiment with and see which works best for you.

I have found that my preference for one or the other varies from time to time..

it also seems that some days my CH wants saliva some days indica and to add some mystery to it

sometimes it makes it worse....

just trial and error for whats best for you.

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Just wondering, do you know if it worked better for CH to eat or smoke it? (I quit smoking over a year ago but everything smoking-like makes me crave a cigarette like mad still)

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Just wondering, do you know if it worked better for CH to eat or smoke it? (I quit smoking over a year ago but everything smoking-like makes me crave a cigarette like mad still)

Well, what prompted my post was someone in a cluster headache facebook group saying that consuming an edible before bedtime has greatly reduced her nighttime hits.  She uses Indica-based edibles but I remember reading somewhere that Sativas were more effective in treating clusters while Indicas were more likely to be a trigger.

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Here's an interesting article.  I wonder if the anti-inflammatory properties of higher-CBD strains would be more effective for our clusters.

http://www.leafly.com/news/lifestyle/whats-the-deal-with-these-high-cbd-strains

Interesting article indeed - thanks.

I too find the CBD stuff to be particularly interesting:

"Recently, research has shown CBD to have analgesic, anti-inflammatory and anti-anxiety properties without the psychoactive effects (the "high" or "stoned" feeling) that THC provies"

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Thanks - I've actually gotten through the cannabinoids first half of that, and searching out info online for a relative who suffers from severe nerve pain, I eventually realized that Cannabidiol (as a concentrated form of high CBD-rich hemp oil), being 100% non psychoactive, is fully legal and available for purchase (even on Amazon.com!), with some preliminary positive user reviews regarding it's effectiveness for severe pain. Well supposedly those reviews came from users, not the vendor.

This:

http://cbdgum.networkofhemp.com/order-cbd/rsho-high-cbd-hemp-oils/

tubesideways.png

...is the most potent Cannabidiol I've seen for purchase online so far, and in my hasty enthusiasm, I ordered some for the relative with the nerve pain, having read the wrong description, thinking "it's expensive, but hey it's 2 months worth", only to realize too late it was only 3 DAYS worth. DOH.

I intend to post here about results if there are any that are pertinent.

I do think it's cool that that this particular stuff is devoid of THC [Edit: it actually contains 1% THC], but am discouraged by how ungodly expensive it actually is.

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WOW, that stuff is expensive.  I didn't think much could top the cost of imitrex.. yeowch... 

There's so much interesting and great stuff coming out of the closet along with maryJ legalization in some states.  It's only a matter of time before it gets cheaper and more detailed on effectiveness for various ailments.  The future is bright!  (keep the lights turned on :)

J

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It's only a matter of time before it gets cheaper and more detailed on effectiveness for various ailments.  The future is bright! 

I like the sound o' that. Sold. Now adopting said outlook. :)

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Interesting thread!

Patients with migraine tell me that indica is better. We in MA have yet to open up the marijuana dispensaries, so I do not have as much experience directly with the individual marijuana types.

Orally consuming cannabinoids before bed is interesting, and likely would avoid the triggering factor of smoke when dealing with cluster headache. Would certainly be worth a try. Prior to the 1930's oral tinctures were the main route of admin for cannabinoid medications. More I think about it, really good idea- you would quickly find out if it prevents bedtime attacks. CBD may not be any better than a general mixture of plant material. Maybe some folks could experiment and post their findings  ;)

BostonHeadacheDoc

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Some of my experiences:

For me the heavy indica's will sometimes make my cluster's worse and hardly ever make them better.  The best I have found is a strain that is a good sativa/indica mix that is heavy on the sativa.  The really high sativa's work for me but only for a day or so.  It seems like I build up tolerance to it very quickly. 

If I smoke before bed, even with a strain that is usually very helpful, I'll end up with a cluster when I wake up.  A number of drugs have this same effect on me (like Ketamine)  I really have to watch what I have taken in the couple hours before bed.

If I eat something made with the raw product (steeping buds or trim in something and extracting it, like cannabis butter) it is guaranteed to give me a cluster.  Eating an extract like hash or hash oil does not.

-Ricardo

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It seems that any form of pot is a trigger for me. I'm am surprised to hear it helps some. Good for you guys. Are you using it as an abortive or a preventative, or as way to kill the cycle completely? Am very interested in learning more!

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I am a genuine, certified, bonafide, pot head. When I'm in a cycle, pot can be a trigger for me if I smoke too much. No matter what kind it is. During the worst cycle of my life I was willing to try anything and I quit smoking pot all together. It didn't have any effect on the cycle at all, but it did seem like the clusters were somehow more harsh and unforgiving than before. So I went back to smoking pot. And after a nasty cluster it deffinitly helps me to relax and feel normal again. But in my 25 years of having clusters, and my 20 years of smoking pot on a pretty much daily basis, I have no evidence whatsoever that leads me to believe that cannabis can prevent clusters. But it sure does make them easier to deal with. :)

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I have a prescription to treat borderline personality disorder with medical marijuana. This is what I have discovered in my experimenting over the past 6 months or so.

Sativa when smoked doesn't help break a cycle for me, but can help ease the pain and shorten the headaches.

Indica seems to help with the pain and helps relax a bit, but barely and not much else.

HOWEVER.. I have found that an edible made with pure Indica, not a Hybrid, will break my cycle for a week or so at best..but that is a week without pain! Unfortunately the dispensary around here very rarely has any edibles made with pure Indica, it is usually a hybrid with sativa dominance. 

As far as triggers, I have never gotten a CH from smoking weed, and I've smoked it every day for over three years now.

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I intend to post here about results if there are any that are pertinent.

OK, reportin' back now because I think there have been some pertinent-ish results with the CBD oil and my relative's nerve pain/mood:

1) the thinner, clearer oil offered pain relief and mood uplift when administered sublingually or vaporized (vaporizing was the more economical route).

2) the thicker "waxy" oil has been the most potent of the 2 versions when vaporized.

3) A way was found to get a wholesale price. I think this has brought the cost for a few good vaped doses spread throughout the day to maybe under $10 total per day, as it is in the 1/4 to 1/3 gram per day range. That still add$ up aplenty but is much better than what was first feared. Any members here interested in how to get the wholesale thing going on for their individual needs can PM me and I'll tell ya what I know.

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I have been having great results with Harlequin and Canna-Tsu, both high in cbd with a below average thc content. Thc is an incredible pain reliever, so I think it is important for it to be in there at least a little. The amazing thing about these stains is the way the cannabinoids interact with each other. The cbd eventually counteracts the psychoactive affects of thc so if you smoke or vaporize it you get a heavy punch of quick pain relief from thc and cbd without the lingering head high that some cluster heads say can bring on a headache later on. I take a hit of this at the first sign of an attack, it knocks it out for me, and i'm not high doing whatever it was I was doing. Better than oxygen in my opinion and it fits in my pocket. This stuff is really interesting the way it counteracts the high. If I smoke the high cbd strains earlier in the day, hours later even the most potent, high thc strains have very little psychoactive affect.

Getting really interested, I made a bunch of tincture to see if staying on a constant cbd regimen could do anything as a preventative, but I had a successful bust a few weeks ago, so... ;D

I have used cannabis as an abortive for years, but it has always varied which types work the best, or don't work at all. Even the same strain can vary significantly depending on how it was grown, when it was harvested, and the isomerization of cannabinoids and terpenes that takes place during the curing process. There is much more to look into. I will let you all know how the tincture experiments go when the headaches come on back.

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I take a hit of this at the first sign of an attack, it knocks it out for me, and i'm not high doing whatever it was I was doing. Better than oxygen in my opinion and it fits in my pocket

WOWZA. :o Really, just one hit to knock out an attack? Now THAT sounds economical. :o You're vaping? And to think residents of certain cities in Colorado can just pop over to the local shop to pick some up.

I'd seen that Harlequin is known for for it's high CBD content/therapeutic properties....

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To be a bit more clear, what I referred to as a hit would be about 1/10 of a gram, anywhere from 1-4 times until the headache fades away. Very cheap. The state of Maine is kind enough to let me flower six of these through their medical program.

I get relief like this from a lot of high quality hybreds though. With that being the case, I would really like to hear how this works for someone who doesn't get relief from other types of cannabis.

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hey Bejeeber,

any chance you can save a bit of that oil and vape it next time you get hit with a cluster?

Even if I make an extract I'm still going to end up with some thc in there, which isn't really a bad thing, but for the sake of figuring out what it is that's helping here, I'm dying to hear more about how the cbd's alone are affecting people.

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any chance you can save a bit of that oil and vape it next time you get hit with a cluster?

Frankly if I thought I was going back into a cluster cycle (and busting wasn't working for prevention) I think I might be more likely to seek out the Harlequin! I say this just because although I can see the CBD oil is effective for nerve pain, it's been requiring around 6 hits for an effective dose, and I'm afraid that might be too long for me to wait for a CH abort. Although maybe it would be good enough for the initial, not so off the charts, easier to abort attacks that have characterized the very beginning of a cycle for me.

Or maybe I'd research into a best quality, faster/easier vaporizer for the CBD...

I guess I'm thinking of the time it takes for 6 or more hits of CBD oil to kick in as being like taking an imitrex pill, and 1 to 4 hits of Harlequin potentially being more like an imitrex injection, but hey that's just the noise and wild guesswork rattling around in me noggin at the moment, with admittedly little thought or research put into it.

Glad you brought it up though - maybe I could start with seeing how the oil affects a shadow, as I expect to have those randomly pass through now and then....

I'm also trying not to get TOO excited yet about CBD and CH since some CH'ers generally find marijuana to be an actual trigger, and I wouldn't know whether for them that might also apply to the CBD hemp oil or Harlequin. Again, I'm pretty much just free associating with random thoughts here, and very well may change my stance when better informed.

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