overit Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 What's the latest con census for shelf life of rc seeds? 3 months? I feel what may be shadows (hopefully not) and have some seeds from last October. Thinking of just buying new ones though. Thanks!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Only Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 I think it's around 3 to 6 months stored in normal room temperatures, protected from light and air (air tight). Storing them in freezer can extend this up to 1-2 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatHurtsMyHead Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 ++ Tony is spot on. Alcohol extract stored in the freezer keeps much longer (but that stuff is NASTY).. Made me want to barf just smelling it. Overit, I'd recommend getting fresh, (just in case). Well worth the few $ to not let the attacks come swinging back if your seeds are old. J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHfather Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 I feel what may be shadows (hopefully not) Hopefully not, agreed. But we've seen so many people put off busting and then regret that they didn't hit it early. My suggestion -- Take a good-sized bunch of the ones you have now, while you're waiting for the fresh ones you order today to arrive. Worst that can happen is that the old ones have no effect; best is that you get a head start, just in case. Or, if they weren't shadows, maybe you get in a good preventive bust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alleyoop Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 I feel what may be shadows (hopefully not)  Hopefully not, agreed. But we've seen so many people put off busting and then regret that they didn't hit it early. My suggestion -- Take a good-sized bunch of the ones you have now, while you're waiting for the fresh ones you order today to arrive. Worst that can happen is that the old ones have no effect; best is that you get a head start, just in case. Or, if they weren't shadows, maybe you get in a good preventive bust. [smiley=thumbsup.gif] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overit Posted June 21, 2014 Author Share Posted June 21, 2014 I feel what may be shadows (hopefully not)  Hopefully not, agreed. But we've seen so many people put off busting and then regret that they didn't hit it early. My suggestion -- Take a good-sized bunch of the ones you have now, while you're waiting for the fresh ones you order today to arrive. Worst that can happen is that the old ones have no effect; best is that you get a head start, just in case. Or, if they weren't shadows, maybe you get in a good preventive bust. Have more coming today. I've never done this so kind of nervous. I'm hoping it just makes me drowsy...we'll see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHfather Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 overit, Tell us specifics of what you're planning to do (how many, how prepared, etc.) Or, if you follow Moxie Girl's excellent guidance here -- https://www.clusterheadaches.com/cb/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1357378289 -- you'll do fine. I would only say these small things regarding her excellent post: (1) Anything less than 30 seeds is a very cautious first dose. You might want to be cautious, but I wouldn't go below 25, and I would recommend more like 35, which still feels "cautious" to me, based on results posted here over many years. (2) Some people think that fluoridated tap water, which is common in the US, can block the effectiveness of the extraction. So you might want to use non-fizzy bottled water.  (3) The squeeze of lemon is a good idea for masking the taste, but not important for extraction. If you hate the taste, chase it down with some cranberry juice or other juice. Of all possible immediate effects from a reasonable dose, drowsiness is at the top of the list, way, way ahead of anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overit Posted June 24, 2014 Author Share Posted June 24, 2014 Thanks for the advice. Was thinking of trying 35 tonight. It sounds like I should be able to sleep no problem. Is that accurate? Also, should I expect stomach upset or nausea? Should I have a drink? All advice is welcome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHfather Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 I think maybe one or two people have said they had some trouble sleeping. I was just talking to a person who was saying how much she loves taking her seeds because she gets such a good sleep that night -- I think this is a much more common reaction, and I hope it will be true for you. It would be very surprising if you got stomach upset or nausea, particularly with 35 seeds. I think maybe Moxie said that she got some (??). It almost certainly won't be much. (I wish we could avoid all the "almost"-type qualifiers, but mileage does vary with these things.) So you shouldn't expect it, but it could happen, possibly. A drink???? An alcoholic drink???? Even if it's not a trigger for you, I don't think we'd recommend that. Best wishes for smooth sailing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bejeeber Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 I can just relate my own RC experience which typically has involved about one minute of marked nausea, before drifting off to a better than usual night's sleep (I ingest 'em on an empty stomach right before bed). There was one time when I was lying there in bed, having forgotten I'd even taken a good 65-75 or so RC, and I noticed with eyes closed I was seeing some colorful things on the inside of the 'ol eyelids. Took awhile before I realized "oh, it must be the from the RC". Then I conked out. I guess I must've been in possession of a pretty potent batch that time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overit Posted June 24, 2014 Author Share Posted June 24, 2014 Thanks for the responses guys. Chfather, alcohol is most definitely a trigger but I'm not in cycle. I'm just trying to prevent one bc I was having slight slight pain on my right side. Hopefully it wasn't cluster related but busting to be safe. It's more of a preventative bust than anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHfather Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 That's right . . . you told us that . . . I'm sorry I forgot. Still, given that you have concerns about taking the RC, I think I would recommend not having that drink, so you know clearly what the effects of the RC are (if there are any). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overit Posted July 8, 2014 Author Share Posted July 8, 2014 How can you tell if you're taking the right dose of seeds? When using as a preventative, there's really no obvious way to tell if it's "working". Is 50 enough? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatHurtsMyHead Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 Overit, My rule of thumb is to take enough to ensure I get a threshold (psychedelic) experience. Not deep, but just enough to know the chemicals were active. That said though, I personally never received RC that were active (always had no LSA). HBWR on the other hand I found quite the experience from time to time with very small doses (As small as 4 seeds). J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overit Posted July 8, 2014 Author Share Posted July 8, 2014 Overit, My rule of thumb is to take enough to ensure I get a threshold (psychedelic) experience. Not deep, but just enough to know the chemicals were active. That said though, I personally never received RC that were active (always had no LSA). HBWR on the other hand I found quite the experience from time to time with very small doses (As small as 4 seeds). J Interesting. And you've ordered from the recommended venders? So you don't think that they work at all? I've never gotten much other than vivid dreams and drowsiness. I think I'm more confer able using other busting tools if in going for a real psychedelic experience. I was thinking that seeds are an easy way to busy without putting a day aside for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatHurtsMyHead Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 Overit, To the contrary, lots of other people have reported great success with RC. I think RC just has an enormous variability of LSA. J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHfather Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 overit, THMH and I have different perspectives on this. I'll give you mine; you can decide. [i see he just responded to you while I was writing my post. I agree with what he says there, and I am in some ways just restating it here, at greater length.] Of course he is right that unless you have some kind of psychedelic experience, you won't know for certain that you received LSA. But we have had many people use seeds from the standard recommended vendors who have not had any level of psychedelic experience but who still have achieved results that say there was LSA in there. Those results range from remission to the slapbacks that pretty convincingly show that the seeds were having an effect. I also go back to Dr. Sewell's [RIP] seed testing (seeds sent to him by busters). Although there were wide variations in the amount of LSA in both types of seeds (RC and HBWR), all the RC his lab tested had some LSA in it (it was only in one sample of HBWR that he found zero LSA). My own belief is that if you take at least 50 float-tested RC seeds you are very likely to get a sufficient dose of LSA. You could almost certainly take more, if you wanted to. Our principle here has generally been to take the lowest amount feasible -- enough to treat your CH with minimal psychedelic effects. That's because we're in the CH-treatment arena here, not the tripping arena. But if you're comfortable with the possibility of a trip, by all means go ahead and take more. It can't hurt (and, to be honest, you probably wouldn't have a serious trip even with 80 seeds).     Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overit Posted July 8, 2014 Author Share Posted July 8, 2014 Thanks guys. So maybe the 50 will prevent a cycle this summer. One can hope! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatHurtsMyHead Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 +++ CHFather Discussing the DR Sewell paper a pretty important item to note: 100% of those that used seeds in greater than .5mg of LSA had relief of their CH. 100% is pretty convincing to me  Problem though is there's no way to know how to get .5mg unless a person hits a threshold dose. I'd certainly prefer a sub hallucinogenic dose myself, but my experience mirrors the poster and don't get relief unless i hit a threshold dose. J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHfather Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 THMH and overit, A couple of other things about the Sewell poster, which do not contradict THMH's position, but amplify it a little: "93% of subjects ingested LSA in a dose low enough to produce no psychoactive effects." (So, the LSA was working even when there were no effects. But this doesn't change THMH's point that the only way to know for sure that you're getting enough LSA is to feel some effects. It just says that a lot of people who felt no effects still got good results.) All four people who took seeds preventively skipped their next cycle. Two of them sent in samples, and they had taken a lot of LSA: 1.1mg and 2.8mg. This might mean that a preventive dose is better if it's quite strong. (It doesn't necessarily mean that, but it could.) I suppose you (overit) might see how 50 affects you, and maybe if there's no effect, take a stronger dose a week or two later (??). http://clusterheadacheinfo.wdfiles.com/local--files/file%3Asewell-2008-aha-lsa-poster/sewell_2008_aha_lsa_poster.pdf'> http://clusterheadacheinfo.wdfiles.com/local--files/file%3Asewell-2008-aha-lsa-poster/sewell_2008_aha_lsa_poster.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overit Posted July 9, 2014 Author Share Posted July 9, 2014 Thanks ch father. That's great info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHfather Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 overit, Just so you know something about the history here, Dr. Sewell was a great friend of busters, and of people with CH in general. He died suddenly and unexpectedly last year, very young. He was on the faculty at Yale Medical School. He maintained a CH-related blog (clusterattack.com), and he was very, very generous with his time, with me personally and many others. He is greatly missed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overit Posted July 10, 2014 Author Share Posted July 10, 2014 overit, Just so you know something about the history here, Dr. Sewell was a great friend of busters, and of people with CH in general. He died suddenly and unexpectedly last year, very young. He was on the faculty at Yale Medical School. He maintained a CH-related blog (clusterattack.com), and he was very, very generous with his time, with me personally and many others. He is greatly missed. Just spent some time reading about him. Seems like he was an amazing guy. Huge loss to us all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHfather Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 Thank you for following up on that, overit. Dr. Sewell deserves to be known and remembered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overit Posted July 18, 2014 Author Share Posted July 18, 2014 Has anyone gotten something similar to slap backs when busting as a preventative while OUT OF cycle? I woke up today with a clogged feeling ear and sporadic slight pains behind eye after busting on Monday. I'm not in cycle so it's a little weird/ I should also mention that my first cycle started at the end of last summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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