Acetium - clinical trial

[didgens]

Im Sorry ,, Im just so excited about this article.. I just cant stop myself .. check out this article about acetaldehyde and the symptoms of toxicity.. (headache ??!!!)

A product of alcohol metabolism that is more toxic than alcohol itself, acetaldehyde is created when the alcohol in the liver is broken down by an enzyme called alcohol dehydrogenase. The acetaldehyde is then attacked by another enzyme, acetaldehyde dehydrogenase, and another substance called glutathione, which contains high quantities of cysteine (a substance that is attracted to acetaldehyde). Together, the acetaldehyde dehydrogenase and the glutathione form the nontoxic acetate (a substance similar to vinegar). This process works well, leaving the acetaldehyde only a short amount of time to do its damage if only a few drinks are consumed.

Unfortunately, the liver's stores of glutathione quickly run out when larger amounts of alcohol enter the system. This causes the acetaldehyde to build up in the body as the liver creates more glutathione, leaving the toxin in the body for long periods of time. In studies that blocked the enzyme that breaks down acetaldehyde (acetaldehyde dehydrogenase) with a drug called Antabuse, designed to fight alcoholism, acetaldehyde toxicity resulted in headaches and vomiting so bad that even alcoholics were wary of their next drink. Although body weight is a factor (see How Alcohol Works), part of the reason women should not keep up with men drink-for-drink is because women have less acetaldehyde dehydrogenase and glutathione, making their hangovers worse because it takes longer for the body to break down the alcohol.

Some of the most common hangover symptoms -- fatigue, stomach irritation and a general sense of illness all over -- can be further attributed to something called glutamine rebound. In the next section, we'll see what this aftereffect is all about.

[didgens]

this seems kinda crazy ..

http://phys.org/news/2013-10-chinese-team-sprite-hangover.html

[didgens]

and yet more ,, i'll try and stop now

http://www.rsc.org/chemistryworld/2013/10/alcohol-hangover-cure

[didgens]

ok last one today ,, I promise

http://acetiumusa.com/Acetium/index.html

[didgens]

I guess I just can leave it alone .. both of my sons great grandparents on my husbands side had alzheimers.

Alzheimer's disease[edit]

People with a genetic deficiency for the enzyme responsible for the conversion of acetaldehyde into acetic acid may have a greater risk of Alzheimer's disease. "These results indicate that the ALDH2 deficiency is a risk factor for LOAD [late-onset Alzheimer's disease] Â…"[33]

[Tony Only]

Now looking into acetaldehyde, I can relate lot of the stuff in my life having to do with it and clusters. For years the doctors and communities mostly said I'm nuts and imagining things. And in my case, the gut & stomach certainly has a role in my CH.

I've lived in a city that has the most poor air quality in here during summers (pollution) and I always draw a direct relation to my clusters. Pollution itself can be an issue (anyone heard of Mexico City where kids have clusters) but via acetaldehyde exposure it actually suffocates us and leaves our brain less oxygen, even if you're in good physical shape. I've lived in a house that had mold long time ago, again direct relation to CH going way worse. Back then I read up about aldehyde toxicity, I think it was this article, then found more information about mold in living areas and acetaldehyde. And again, the doctors thought I was more nuts than before.

CCH changed the ballgame completely and at the worst point when I had lost ability to walk (due to cortisone->bone loss) my intestines blew to hell. Was practically living in the toilet and this again drove CH into a new evil gear. And the healthcare offered cortisone to treat this. So for me the detox was double hard, when I managed to deal with CCH (via busting) it took years to get my intestines back together.

Monitoring just about everything I put in my mouth, learning ways to cope with stress etc. and for the first time having actual weapons against CH naturally helped. Nowadays I manage my stomach & intestines only with kefir. And browsing that article now it's kind of funny that it could be a potential hazard, acetaldehyde-wise. But it's working for me.

I'm just as nuttily convinced as didgens that Big Bad A may be a big piece in the puzzle. Let's hope the finnish research can dig something up, although (I'm cynical you know) it's motivated by making lots of money with their own product.

[CHfather]

Tony, with apologies if you have already answered this somewhere else . . . How much Acetium are you taking, and on what kind of schedule?  Is there any consensus among the people you know about dosage and timing, or does it seem to vary from person to person?  I'm assuming it's pretty much entirely a preventive for you all, not an abortive.

Thank you!

[CHfather]

CHf ,, is there anything going on in your area that would kick this off with your daughter ? any pollutants in the air she has recently been exposed to ??

  No, not really. Hers are quite regular, mid-summer and mid-winter. We had hoped that maybe the big barometric changes happening where she lives might have brought on this cycle or at least made it worse, and that it might abate when the changes stopped or slowed down, but no luck -- it's her usual cycle.

[Tony Only]

Tony, with apologies if you have already answered this somewhere else . . . How much Acetium are you taking, and on what kind of schedule?  Is there any consensus among the people you know about dosage and timing, or does it seem to vary from person to person?  I'm assuming it's pretty much entirely a preventive for you all, not an abortive.

Thank you!

My use is in direct relation to me smoking regular cigarettes. So I just pay for my stupidity with it. Mainly I smoke e-cigarettes (no acetaldehyde formed or if there is, it's minimal) but if/when I smoke normal cigarettes it's trouble for my CH if I don't balance things with Acetium. Avoiding acetaldehyde when smoking (regulars) it's almost impossible because from smoke it's in the saliva immediately. I take 1 capsule prior to smoking, 1 capsule for 1-4 smokes.

On finnish boards the ones who have had great help from Acetaldehyde the minimal dosage that gives results seems to be 1 capsule in the morning, 1 in the evening. And from there up all the way to 10 capsules per day (how severe ones CH is). It seems to help smokers most but also people who have never smoked. In my mind it's all about individual body chemistry plus individual acetaldehyde exposure. It does not help all of us though. Hope this helps.

I also want to *raise my hat* for CHfather for the amazing work you do here (and for many others as well). You guys are my heroes.

[smiley=tekst-toppie.gif]

[didgens]

hey Tony ,, yes I try to look at everything my son is experiencing when having CH's not just the CH itself hunting for clues... and the bad stomach is always there ,, he reaches for the TUMs every time.. cause and effect ?? not sure ,,

Im curious about this statement you made

Nowadays I manage my stomach & intestines only with kefir. And browsing that article now it's kind of funny that it could be a potential hazard, acetaldehyde-wise"

I was thinking about supplementing with acidopholis and other intestinal bacteria .. but your comment about it being a potential hazard has me wondering?  do you think the bacteria would facilitate the creation of more acetaldehyde in the system ?

[didgens]

lookey what I found ... Soooo ,, ( I feel like this is important)..  the reason that the Shrooms and Seeds work ,, is because they bind with the excess acetaldehyde in your bodies converting it to LSH,,,

I just ordered some for my son

Defiance: It is my understanding the acetaldehyde naturally bound to the fresh seed active (the combination I call LSH for ease of communication) evaporates and thus leaves the compound I call LSA (for ease of communication) or something like that that I'll dig up if inquiring minds truly want to know.

The evaporation leaves part of the original compound, which I call LSA, ready to react and form an adduct with another aldehyde when it is introduced to the LSA in solution.

This is where we get our "Peppermint Tea" CWE for potentiated effects of older seeds...

but it only works (well/consistently) with fresh or hermetically sealed peppermint leaves (or rum/sherry) due to the low evaporation temperature of acetaldehyde... the same reason the seeds lower in activity and change in effect from stimulation (LSH) to sedation (LSA) over time.

The aldehyde of cinnamon is much more temperature stable... and so is the adduct formed when mixed in solution with the sacred-seed extract.

This is mostly from the studies of a mixed group of enterprising entities as I'm sure some of you can relate...

[didgens]

sorry meant to post this under the Acetum post

[didgens]

lookey what I found ... Soooo ,, ( I feel like this is important)..  the reason that the Shrooms and Seeds work ,, is because they bind with the excess acetaldehyde in your bodies converting it to LSH,,,

I just ordered some for my son

Defiance: It is my understanding the acetaldehyde naturally bound to the fresh seed active (the combination I call LSH for ease of communication) evaporates and thus leaves the compound I call LSA (for ease of communication) or something like that that I'll dig up if inquiring minds truly want to know.

The evaporation leaves part of the original compound, which I call LSA, ready to react and form an adduct with another aldehyde when it is introduced to the LSA in solution.

This is where we get our "Peppermint Tea" CWE for potentiated effects of older seeds...

but it only works (well/consistently) with fresh or hermetically sealed peppermint leaves (or rum/sherry) due to the low evaporation temperature of acetaldehyde... the same reason the seeds lower in activity and change in effect from stimulation (LSH) to sedation (LSA) over time.

The aldehyde of cinnamon is much more temperature stable... and so is the adduct formed when mixed in solution with the sacred-seed extract.

This is mostly from the studies of a mixed group of enterprising entities as I'm sure some of you can relate...

Back to top 

 

[CHfather]

The thread from which didgens has extracted this passage is here: https://mycotopia.net/topic/72016-extracted-lsa-converted-to-lsd/  I have to admit that I have practically no idea what any of these posters are talking/arguing about, but (a) others seem to disagree with this poster, who is responding to a post by "Defiance" in which Defiance disagreed with someone about the role of acetaldehyde in certain LSA extractions (I think); ( these folks are pretty funny in their sparring.

[didgens]

they are ,,, im trying to find out how the RC seeds and vit M would affect acetaldehyde to see if there is a correlation. In my mind if acetaldehyde is the culprit then seeds and shrooms must interact with it somehow no ?

[CHfather]

if acetaldehyde is the culprit then seeds and shrooms must interact with it somehow no

  Well, there are lots of treatments that help, in addition to busting, and it doesn't seem reasonable to me to think that they all involve acetaldehyde.  Hey, maybe they do -- I'm not saying you're wrong, and I greatly value your research and thinking about this, but maybe dealing with acetaldehyde is just another treatment pathway, or maybe it works at a deeper level, closer to the cause, as a preventive (assuming that Acetium will continue to be shown to work in either way, as a treatment or as a preventive).

As I think about this, I realize that I have no idea why/how psychedelics treat CH.  In his post on the topic over in the CB files, TommyD writes >>We don't know how this works. There is informed speculation on how such small amounts of substances can overcome such large headaches, but there is much to be learned. It’s serious neurology, of course, Some ideas seem to center on the way tryptamines constrict blood vessels; others involve the way the indole-ring molecule of the tryptamines fits into seratonin receptors.<<  Do we know more than this now?

[Tony Only]

I was thinking about supplementing with acidopholis and other intestinal bacteria .. but your comment about it being a potential hazard has me wondering?  do you think the bacteria would facilitate the creation of more acetaldehyde in the system ?

After my stomach and intestines blew to hell, the overall condition was treated with several antibiotic courses which in my mind is the absolute worst anyone can do to their intestinal bacteria since it kills the good ones as well as the bad ones, some may reproduce and some never will. In my case it lead to something called clostridium difficile and almost died from that. After that my life was a "horror balance" meaning I had to think about everything I ate or drank and only steady use of supplemental lactic acid bacteria plus several kinds of acidofilus products kept me going at all, but I still had severe downers in my condition, because some of the bacteria that stabilizers everything is now gone for good. After I found kefir I did not hesitate or research it one bit seeing how much good it had actually done to people using it. Nowadays kefir has replaced all my other means to control my stomach issues, it's the "magic bullet" for me. The article I mentioned was the first time I heard that kefir might be an issue, I find it hard to believe though that it could add to acetaldehyde exposure. Most of the acidofilus products sold to us are made like kefir. Kefir just contains more of them and it's as natural as can get.

I would simply avoid antibiotics like plague, majority of painkillers (those that create havoc in your stomach) and majority of industrial grade "stomach protectives" as well.

I can't answer your question though. I have been wondering the same kind of stuff. Am I "over treating" myself with kefir ? If things some day get really bad, am I already exhausting the most efficient help there is, teaching my body to "too well state"? Dunno.

:-[

[didgens]

im never satisfied with something that works ..  I want to know why... (unfortunately its part of my OCD mind).  theres a reason for everything ,, and I don't like stopping till I find it.   You know I researched Tylenol,,, and no one has any idea how it works ... nuts huh ?

[alleyoop]

[postsmovedhere1] 2 [postsmovedhere2] Research & Scientific News [move by] alleyoop.

[Ricardo]

I was researching the whole LSA to LSH thing a while back and never really found any definitive answers.  There are intelligent people that swear this conversion should not happen, there are intelligent people saying that it should.  (One thing I have never heard people claim is that Psilocybin is getting changed into LSH, pretty sure that is impossible)

One thing that I found quoted a number of times is that Owsley claimed that LSH is indistinguishable from LSD but after researching a bit I found that the LSH that Oswley was talking about was a different LSH than we are talking about here.

Also, I have never heard (and am really skeptical)  that the LSA is binding to acetaldehyde and changing to LSH in your body.  If it did, there would be no qualitative difference in any sort of peppermint conversion (assuming that actually works)---instead you would always just be getting an LSH trip.

In the mycoptopia link that was posted one guy writes what I think is happening.   

"When the seed is picked, it starts to decompose to yield the sedating LSA, which further decomposes to yield BUNK.

However once the seeds are decomposed enough, but prior to becoming bunk, their magic can be "revived" by the combination of an aldehyde (acetaldehyde, commonly; found in rum, sherry or fresh peppermint leaf) forming an adduct with the decomposed chemicals, thus re-forming the potent, stimulating LSH... or (whispers in the wind tell of a stable aldehyde in cinnamon essential oil) an even more potent adduct when mixed into the good, old, sacred-seed CWE."

The Cinnamon thing that people are talking about goes like this-instead of using acetaldehyde you use a type of aldehyde (there are a number of them) that is in cinnamon (cinnamaldehyde) that makes a somewhat different conversion with somewhat different results.  (all theory)  Here's some more info on that:

https://mycotopia.net/topic/70425-lsa-cinnamaldehyde-cinnamon-essential-oil/

The thing I would stress is that no one really knows what is being changed into what (if anything is being changed) and we won't know until we get good lab tests done on seeds before and after attempting this conversion.

What I can say for sure is that my experiences seem to indicate that SOMETHING is happening.  I have had seeds that knocked me down and sedated me more than almost anything else I have taken in my life and I have had seeds that reminded me of a light dose of LSD.  These experiences are so different that I know something is going on.  Only once have I had seeds that acted like LSD where I attempted no conversion but I washed it down with an alcoholic beverage which I later found out is high in acetdelhyde. 

Native peoples have always claimed these seeds are visionary substances and to me LSA's sedating stupor does not fit that idea very well.  I suspect what that earlier quote claimed is true--that fresh seeds have a visionary, hallucinatory substance in them, that this substance degrades with time and that it can be brought back by combining it with certain substances.

-Ricardo

[CHfather]

I'm sad to report that Acetium doesn't seem to be helping my daughter, after about ten days of taking it. She feels like maybe her attacks have become worse since she started it  (though as you all know, there's no way to conclude cause and effect in this situation), so she's going to discontinue it, at least for a while.   Disappointed. 

[Bejeeber]

Acetium doesn't seem to be helping my daughter..

Ugh. It would've been such a breakthrough if it would've helped. Really sorry to hear of the seriously disappointing letdown. 

[ThatHurtsMyHead]

CHF,

Sorry to hear  

J

[didgens]

so sorry to hear ,, I purchased a box ,, but son isn't having regular CH's so havnt tried. But still his heart burn continues.

[razorPP]

I'm not having any luck with Acetium either. The first week there was a difference, seem to clam a hit. The second week when I was hit, I was taking 3 to 4 Acetium a day with little results. I also thought the Acetium was making some days worse. I ended up dosing with seeds.