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jfrillin

0-25 Regulator and Demand Valve

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You can't get a demand valve system without a prescription.  Sometimes there are some for sale on eBay, and maybe other places.

 

You can get 25 lpm regulators at lots of places--amazon and eBay among them.  You have to be careful what you buy, though, because different size tanks take different types of regulators.  The smaller tanks use a CGA 870 regulator, link the one pictured here: http://www.amazon.com/Medline-HCS8725M-Oxygen-Regulator-Latex/dp/B00BLQKKQQ?ie=UTF8&keywords=cga%20870%20regulator&qid=1465345545&ref_=sr_1_4&sr=8-4

 

Larger tanks use a CGA 540 regulator that will often look like the one pictured here: http://www.amazon.com/Medline-HCS5408M-Best-Valued-Regulators-Connector/dp/B00BLQKI86?ie=UTF8&keywords=cga%20540%20regulator&qid=1465345653&ref_=sr_1_1&sr=8-1

 

Of course, you can look at the regulator on your current tank to see which you would want right now. However, if what you have now is a tank that takes an 870 -- that is, a smaller tank -- it's likely that you are ultimately going to want a larger tank, unless you have several small ones. Depends, of course, on how many hits hubby gets each day and how long it takes to abort them.  You use more O2 at 25 lpm, but the abort is faster.  AND, if you're going to get a "25 lpm" 540 regulator -- the kind for the larger tank -- you might as well get one with unlimited lpm, which would be a welding regulator.  The most commonly recommended one of those is this one: http://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result?q=oxygen+regulator   However, I notice that amazon has one that looks the same for less $: this one: http://www.amazon.com/IMAGE%C2%AE-Welding-Welder-Regulator-Cutting/dp/B00JP9WIF2?ie=UTF8&keywords=cga%20540%20regulator&qid=1465345653&ref_=sr_1_2&sr=8-2

 

Welding regs don't have clickable lpm gauges like medical regs, so you have to fuss with it a little to get it set right -- but it does provide very high lpms if they are needed.

 

The only reason to use a higher-lpm regulator is if he has to wait for the bag on the mask to fill before breathing in. It allows for a more forceful breathing pattern while still having the O2 ready for the next breath.

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Thank you for the links to both Harbor Freight and Amazon.  You hit the nail on the head with why we need the higher lpm.... waiting on the bag every time to fill takes much too long when you are in the middle of an attack.   Our Oxygen supplier doesn't even carry anything higher then 15 lpm and looked at us like we had two heads when we asked if they had a regulator that went to 25.   I really appreciate all the information and resources you have provided !   Without nice people like yourself that understand what it is like to be in ours shoes, we would be shooting in the dark.   It is so wonderful to have this website.  It has been a huge life saver for us !!!!    

Nobody understands what is like to have cluster headaches or a family member with it.  Trying to explain to my boss at work what CH...she just relates to it as a Migraine.  No clue.   People think you are exaggerating or it isn't as bad as you say.  You feel like nobody understands.    If they could come here and watch my husband in an attack...maybe they would think differently.   I had to actually tape him going through an attack in order to show my boss what it is like and the magnitude of the pain.

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There's a few on ebay right now.

 

All of these are either 25 LPM or also have demand valves built in:

 

American Healthcare = Part number - B-870-25

B&F Medical by Allied = Part number - 21025-25

MTR Oxygen Regulator = (Ukn pt #)

 

All of those are CGA870 that fits the 'E' tank (and smaller sizes).

 

The medline link CHFather posted above is the cheapest. 

Repost - https://www.amazon.com/Medline-HCS8725M-Oxygen-Regulator-Latex/dp/B00BLQKKQQ/179-1162706-0615424?ie=UTF8&keywords=cga%20870%20regulator&qid=1465345545&ref_=sr_1_4&sr=8-4

 

 

J

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In addition to price, another reason that I prefer amazon is that you can get faster delivery, which is often important, if you're willing to pay a little more or you're an Amazon Prime member.  At least in the old days, eBay suppliers generally offered only regular shipping, and they didn't seem to ship every day. I haven't checked lately.

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Thathurtsmyhead,

My regulator has demand valves, do I need caps for them when using the regular fitting?

 

No. 

Just to be clear about terminology, I think you're saying that your regulator has a DISS fitting to which a demand valve system can be connected. DISS stands for something like Diameter Index Safety System.

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I got my demand valve on eBay, I set up a few automatic searches to keep an eye out for me - I also use a welding regulator, as my O2 supplier also topped out at 15L regulators. Set up your searches for "demand valve oxygen" "LSP demand valve" "resuscitator valve" "positive pressure resuscitation" "porter o-two" and anything else that you find in your research. I got my valve for about $100, they can be $350+ if you can get one without a huge system that includes a small tank.

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This is much more a question than a statement, and I welcome correction.

I think that the lpm of your regulator is not relevant when using a demand valve.  I think that when you use the DISS valve on the regulator you are bypassing the lpm settings altogether.  Often a standard O2 regulator won't have a DISS valve, but some do. Welding regulators always do.

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I would want 50 lpm for a 40 lpm demand valve, mine says you could use 40-90. Most DISS fittings (as opposed to the hose bib that will give you what you set) off a regular 15/25 lpm regulator run at 50 lpm, but you need to check that with the regulator specs. The dial that chooses the lpm usually doesn't regulate the secondary DISS fittings.

When you use a demand valve, you get the lpm of how hard you are inhaling, up to the valve maximum. I've only seen 40 and 120 lpm demand valves. I have a 40 ---

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I have a demand valve.....and a 40 LPM regulator......the 40 is a poor man's demand valve as is the Harbor Freight welding regulator. A demand valve's advantage over the other two is it can conserve O2 as it does nothing until you breathe in.

 

Some tend to think the equipment is the magic bullet......it's not. It's the ability to keep up with the user's breathing. If a person using proper technique can't out run a 25 LPM flow...in other words never has to wait for the bag to fill and can keep breathing, any higher flow rate is a waste and will not help. On the other hand if you are like me and can out run a 40 LPM during a hard hit, the demand valve or the welding reg will make a difference. I guarantee no human can out run a weld reg. If you can.....PM me....we'll be rich in a week.

 

I think that the lpm of your regulator is not relevant when using a demand valve.  I think that when you use the DISS valve on the regulator you are bypassing the lpm settings altogether.  Often a standard O2 regulator won't have a DISS valve, but some do.

 

You are correct. The dial settings have nothing to do with the DISS fitting. In fact I can use the demand valve while someone else is using the barb fitting outlet at 25 lpm. Does tend to drain an E tank in a hurry but sometimes ya do what ya gotta.

 

 

Welding regulators always do.

The cheap HF regs we like to recommend do not have DISS fittings as a standard port unless they have made a design change....of course they could have been cheating me on the ones I've purchased.

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Yes, thank you for all this. (I had seen you were at the board the other day and I was hoping you'd see this and respond.)

My daughter's favorite thing about the demand valve system we got at eBay is the soft and comfy mask that came with it.  I've been imagining that this was a unit for dentists, and that that's why the mask is so cushy.

Hmmmm . . .   As I'm remembering the Harbor Freight reg, doesn't the barbed adapter screw onto a DISS valve?  All the equipment's with my kid, and she doesn't live nearby, but I'm pretty sure that she uses her DV with the HF regulator.

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The cushy mask.

 

https://www.medexsupply.com/ems-supplies-airway-management-resuscitation-masks-allied-healthcare-reusable-cuffed-mask-adult-size-4-x_pid-73649.html?pid=73649&gclid=CjwKEAjwrcC9BRC2v5rjyvSbhWASJACKkjDzS0KOQ_c3FCR6Qcy9F__9AI9hnPETzGA_rtuAEsEalRoClVbw_wcB

 

The dog ate mine a few months ago, and I just ordered a new one.  :)

I wonder if you can use it with a standard bag setup, instead of the cheap plastic re-breather masks - the value of a mask like this, I suppose, depends on how much you use the O2.

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"Welding regs don't have clickable lpm gauges like medical regs, so you have to fuss with it a little to get it set right -- but it does provide very high lpms if they are needed"

 

CHfather - Are welding regulators fairly straight forward to set in terms of LPM? I've been on the market for a 25 lpm medical regulator and just cannot find one that is reasonably priced. I've came across various welding regulators but was unsure how they would or wouldn't work for me. They are cheaper than the medical 25 lpm regulators so I'd like to test one out as long as I understand how to properly set them for a 25 lpm rate.

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To answer your question, Closet', yes, welding regs are easy to set, but there's no specific lpm setting or lpm gauge.  Remember that what you want is the flow rate that will keep your reservoir bag filled so you don't have to wait to inhale.  Technically, that could as well be 18 lpm or 23 or 29 lpm as 15 or 20 or 25.  With the welding reg, you just turn the valve on the regulator until you get the flow you want.  You learn where that is very quickly.  I have never heard of anyone having a problem with this after the first or second use.  Not saying it never happens, just saying that I've never heard of it, and I can't imagine it being a problem.

 

As J says, you will want a different regulator depending on the size and nature of your tank.  All welding tanks take CGA540 regulators.  Smaller medical tanks take CGA870; larger medical tanks use the 870.  I wish I could figure out to insert photos here.  Here's an 870. (Note that this is also less expensive overall than the eBay ones, if you have Amazon Prime (and it will also get to you faster): https://www.amazon.com/Medline-HCS8725M-Oxygen-Regulator-Latex/dp/B00BLQKKQQ/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1471481724&sr=8-1-fkmr0&keywords=25+lpm+oxygen+regulator+cga540

And here's a 540: https://www.amazon.com/Medline-HCS5408M-Best-Valued-Regulators-Connector/dp/B00BLQKI86/ref=pd_sim_sbs_121_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=2JTKAM6B6EC2WD85W4BZ

 

The advantage of a welding regulator over buying a 25lpm medical regulator comes if it turns out that you need, or benefit from, a flow rate higher than 25 lpm.  As Racer says above, the medical reg will go way up there in terms of flow rate.  Remember that these only come in 540CGA, so it will only fit a larger medical O2 tank (or any welding tank).  There are a few of them at amazon, reasonably priced. Here's one: https://www.amazon.com/IMAGE%C2%AE-Welding-Welder-Regulator-Cutting/dp/B00JP9WIF2/ref=sr_1_1?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1471482716&sr=1-1&keywords=oxygen+welding+regulator

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Thathurtsmyhead and CHfather,

Thank you for the help. I'm very familiar with O2 as I go the commercial route but I had yet to venture to a welding regulator (I have a 200 tank). After reading posts here and on the other site, I figured they would fairly straight forward to use. I just wanted to make sure before I bought one. I'm all about saving money! I'm not the one to spend $100+ on a medical regulator when a welding regulator for $25 can fill the same role. I'm going to pick one of the CGA-540 welding regulators up and let you guys know how it goes.

 

Thanks!

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