Clusters and High blood pressure

[john2000]

Hi, I would need  an opinion on something in regards to blood pressure.

 

I have 120/80 BP and 75 pulse when i don't have a headache.

When i start getting a headache ,even at the very start  at pain 1/10 , my BP goes to 125/85 pulse at 90

When I'm at  pain 3/10 BP goes to 140/90 and 97 pulse. At this point i'm on oxygen and take some pain medication, excedrin migraine usually.

 

When my pain is gone in about 20 min . My BP is 125/85  but pulse is still high at 95.

 

What comes first ,,high BP which causes clusters or clusters that cause high BP .

 

Thank for any help and opinions.

 

 

[jon019]

Hi John,

 

Pain, fear, adrenaline, "dancing", heavy breathing, et al all increase BP and pulse. I too used to measure my BP  during or after hits.

Eventually I stopped because it was informing me of nothing more than something else to worry about. There is nothing you can do about it EXCEPT prevent/abort the hit in the first place......

 

And oh....I'd lose the Excedrin for anything more than a shadow...it'll tear up your stomach for minimal benefit.

 

Best

 

Jon

[john2000]

Hi John,

 

Pain, fear, adrenaline, "dancing", heavy breathing, et al all increase BP and pulse. I too used to measure my BP  during or after hits.

Eventually I stopped because it was informing me of nothing more than something else to worry about. There is nothing you can do about it EXCEPT prevent/abort the hit in the first place......

 

And oh....I'd lose the Excedrin for anything more than a shadow...it'll tear up your stomach for minimal benefit.

 

Best

 

Jon

I m hoping  that high BP triggers clusters in my case.   Why is it that even 1/10 pain raises BP to 125 .  

Excedrin didn't work for me in the past. Now it works fast too but only when im on oxygen .

Oxygen by itself helps with the pain, but attacks return more frequently  the very same day  without  excedrin.

thanks

[jon019]

....if that's the case.... you'd be the first I've heard of in 30+ yrs...BUT....one of the primary prevents in the ch

battle is verapamil. tis a BP med which relaxes blood vessel walls and lowers bp....coincidentally and fortuitously

reduces or eliminates ch for many. the sweet spot as reported by clusterheads is 480 mg/dy in divided doses.

some...including myself... need go higher...like 960-1040/dy. might be your solution. find a good headache specialist to

work out best dosages for YOU. best to try regular release vs extended. don't let 'em try Inderal...another bp med with

some benefit for migraine but poor results for ch...........................

 

best

 

jon

 

ps   I will repeat myself at the risk of being annoying....careful with otc pain relievers...it's a risky cost:benefit ratio

[john2000]

....if that's the case.... you'd be the first I've heard of in 30+ yrs...BUT....one of the primary prevents in the ch

battle is verapamil. tis a BP med which relaxes blood vessel walls and lowers bp....coincidentally and fortuitously

reduces or eliminates ch for many. the sweet spot as reported by clusterheads is 480 mg/dy in divided doses.

some...including myself... need go higher...like 960-1040/dy. might be your solution. find a good headache specialist to

work out best dosages for YOU. best to try regular release vs extended. don't let 'em try Inderal...another bp med with

some benefit for migraine but poor results for ch...........................

 

best

 

jon

 

ps   I will repeat myself at the risk of being annoying....careful with otc pain relievers...it's a risky cost:benefit ratio

 

 

 

1.Would it be better to go on verapamil or start with D3 regiment.

2.Also , what pain medication have you used?

 

Triptans help me, but  give me rebound headaches.

Opiates have no efffect.

The reason why i take excedrin now, becasue it seems to keep headcheds only to 2 a day.Without OTC , its 4-5 a day. With triptans, amount of attacks and their intensity  rises exponentially with time to up to 5 a day , but pain after 2-3 days on triptans is just  pure hell. Just tablets from relpax,frova, and others.

 

thanks

 

thanks

[john2000]

Also , If I  could instantly lower BP  , shouldn't  the attack go away as well?

 

If we  assume that you get CH and  then instantly your blood pressure rises. 

When pain goes down , so does the blood pressure but not as quickly maybe with 5-10min delay compering with onset.

 

Is there some trick that anybody is using so get the BP down quickly?

 

I assume that 100% O2 gets it down , also drinking a lot of water and possibly your feet in hot water.

 

 

I can usually abort it with O2, drinking a lot of water, E-drinks and feet of hot water. 

Many times it just comes back  hours later, where im not as successful to get my BP down.

 

Is there maybe some other trick to instantly lower BP.

I'd like to try it , before I go on verapamil or D3 regiment.

thanks

 

 

[jon019]

Also , If I  could instantly lower BP  , shouldn't  the attack go away as well?

 

...the mechanism of pain is not related to BP....not in any anecdotal or scientific report I have ever seen.......

 

If we  assume that you get CH and  then instantly your blood pressure rises. 

When pain goes down , so does the blood pressure but not as quickly maybe with 5-10min delay compering with onset.

 

...an argument against your theory....ch first?...

 

Is there some trick that anybody is using so get the BP down quickly?

 

Nope.....there's a whole med/pharm industry based on lowering bp...they haven't figured out "quick" yet...

 

I assume that 100% O2 gets it down , also drinking a lot of water and possibly your feet in hot water.

 

ALL excellent options...with many reports of success...

 

 

I can usually abort it with O2, drinking a lot of water, E-drinks and feet of hot water. 

Many times it just comes back  hours later, where im not as successful to get my BP down.

 

It's called cluster headache for a reason...it's gonna come back regardless. I had good success for

12-18 hr relief with Zomig nasal spray (5 mg)....

 

Is there maybe some other trick to instantly lower BP.

I'd like to try it , before I go on verapamil or D3 regiment.

thanks

 

Twere I you...I'd give the D3 a really good run before I resorted to verapamil...which is "relatively benign"

for many...but major side effects for more than a few...you won't get that with D3. Don't look for "tricks"...

​folks been trying that for years.....and anyone who tells you there IS one.....is a source of amusement......

 

Not arguing John...I will not annoy further.........

 

Best

 

Jon

[john2000]

Thank you , I m really new to this CH treatments and forum , I was misdiagnosed  with  migraines  8 years ago and just realized a year ago , i have CH.

 

I'll try D3 and see how it goes,

 

 

Thank you for your help, 

 

[mit12]

John2000

I have the same thing. 120/80 up to 145/95 durning CH or Migraine. Pulse goes up higher during CH compaired to Migraine which does not change it much. I believe with respect to pulse rate it is because when I have a CH I can not sit still, with migraine I do not move at all.

[Pebblesthecorgi]

Your BP changes sound like a normal stress response and is physiologic.  If your BP is normal when your dont have an attack your numbers are not much to worry about.  Excedrin has caffeine and may explain the pulse and some BP changes.  When your blood pressure is elevated chronically there is a lot of vasoconstriction (narrowing of peripheral blood vessels.  Vasodilating drugs (at least those mediated by nitric oxide) are well know to precipitate an attack (ie ED drugs).  I'm not sure much has been described about blood pressure alone and cluster headaches.  Your baseline BP and pulse are pretty good so some of the vasoactive prophylactic meds (verapamil) might make you a bit lightheaded and dizzy.

[mit12]

Pebblesthecorgi

I asked my doc about blood pressure and pulse durning an attack, he said it was normal and not to worry about it.

[john2000]

I was wondering if there are people with CH who don't get elevated blood pressure while having a CH.

 

My highest was  at  155/110 , 120 pulse  measured at 9 KIP .

That was before I had any oxygen .

At 10 KIP , there is no way for me to measure it , but i assume it must be even higher.

 

 

 

 

[john2000]

Pebblesthecorgi

I asked my doc about blood pressure and pulse durning an attack, he said it was normal and not to worry about it.

Hi , I was trying to get more people involved in this discussion about BP ,but i guess there isn't much interest. 

I have found out , that it is impossible for me have a CH without elevated BP. I just however started to check my BP while having CH only with my last cycle.(last 30 days)

If I can control BP when shadows appear  , with slow breathing even without oxygen , I will not get it.

Sometimes I'm not successful with controlling my BP with  breathing techniques , but oxygen will do the trick.

 

Have you ever had a CH with normal BP or anyone else?

 

thank you .