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At what point are you wasting O2

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Quick question:

I have wondered this for awhile, and I am sure this has been covered before but at what point are you just wasting O2. I awoke this morning in a battle with a K8 and hit the O2 hard, took about 30-35 min for the pain to get manageable, then at 40 min it was down to nothing, but I didn't feel that magic moment that tells me it is completely over. I believe all the O2 users know what I mean, if not I feel this release that tells me the beast has slipped away, and then I continue for 5 minutes. Today it took like 20 min no feel of release but pain was not there so I stopped the O2, and feeling like a mild shadow. I stopped the O2 in fear I was wasting my precious supply ( and I have a good supply of O2).

So simply put, what are peoples experience with staying on the O2 and stopping due to fear of wasting their supply?

Thanks in advance for any and all info

CB 

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clusterb, without knowing your specific situation regarding access to O2 and its cost, I'll just mention that if you put the phrase "red neck" into the search bar at the top right of the page, you'll find posts with Batch's suggested method for using O2, which uses far less than the conventional method, and which he says is also just more effective for treating attacks.  Batch has led to many advances in O2 use and other things (D3), so it might be worth taking a look at what he says

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Get down your technique.  It matters.  Generally speaking if you are not quieting you head by 10-15 minutes it's probably time to quit.  40 minutes is in the range of an unchecked cluster so you probably ran the course with or without O2

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UPDATE, That was PFM Pure fucking Magic.... to think I have been using O2 wrong for like 19 years. That was amazing just zapped a CH in under 5 min. I feel ashamed I didn't read on this site before. Thank you batch and thank all of you for this info

Sorry for all these posts, hope I am not clogging up the board.

Also tried the 5 hour energy  and i guess that helped...thank you Jon and CHF

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Clusterb,

Try different breating methods. I turn my regulator to 25lpm and breath deep and hard for a couple of minutes, i turn the regulator down to 10 and take a deep breath and hold it until the bag fills exhale hard and repete. I have found that holding the O2 in longer makes it work better/faster for me. I do not think that there is a "one way works for all" way to breath O2. Good luck.

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The improved efficacy of oxygen therapy in aborting CH is based on lowering the partial pressure of arterial CO2 (PaCO2) through hyperventilation either with 100% oxygen or with room air for at least 30 seconds followed by a lung full of 100% oxygen that's held for 30 seconds. 

Breathing 100% oxygen at 7 to 9 liters/minute will actually make cluster headache worse if the user is animated by the CH pain.  The extra physical activity coupled with a restricted level of lung ventilation causes PaCO2 to rise and systemic pH to drop (more acidic).  This stimulates vasodilation further aggravating CH.

Blowing off CO2 faster than the body generates it through normal metabolism by intentionally hyperventilating drives the cardiovascular system into respiratory alkalosis...  (Remember the Andromeda Strain)?  During respiratory alkalosis several things happen. As the PaCO2 levels drop, the blood becomes less acid so pH rises. 

This drop in PaCO2 and elevated pH are sensed by chemical receptors in the Aortic and Carotid bodies and the brain stem.  They in turn signal the breathing center to slow the rate of respiration, the heart to beat slower and the circulatory system's arteries and capillaries to constrict.  This response is part of what's called pH homeostasis, a feedback control mechanism the body uses that tries to maintain optimum levels of PaCO2 and PaO2. However as we are intentionally hyperventilating, this increases the vasoconstriction. 

The elevated pH (more alkaline) also causes blood hemoglobin to have a greater affinity for oxygen so each molecule of hemoglobin becomes capable of attracting and holding more molecules of oxygen... up to 12% more oxygen than during normal respiration.  This results in a super-oxygenated flow of blood to the brain.    When the increased level of vasoconstriction caused by a low PaCO2 and elevated pH is coupled with super-oxygenated blood flow, we experience rapid and reliable CH aborts.

Bottom line... If you want fast and reliable CH aborts, ya gotta be huffing and puffing like a big bad wolf trying to blow down the pig's houses of straw and sticks...  It's hard work... but well worth the extra effort.

One word of caution.  Do not hold the lungful of 100% oxygen longer than 30 seconds.  The reason for this is simple.  Our bodies are running like a car's engine producing exhaust... in our case, CO2.  Although there's sufficient oxygen in the lungful of 100% oxygen to hold your breath for over a minute...  the level of CO2 or PaCO2 starts climbing as soon as you stop hyperventilating and hold your breath. 

If you hold your breath for more than 30 seconds, the level of CO2 rises above normal and this triggers vasodilation... In the scheme of Good and Bad things... That's Bad for CHers as vasodilation increases CH pain and prolongs the abort process.

Take care,

V/R, Batch

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On 2/18/2017 at 10:21 PM, CHfather said:

:-)    I wonder how many people here have actually tried Batch's method.  I think you are the first to report on having done it.  Thrilled that it worked so well (plus the energy shot).

I've been using a large bag since Ben Khan first developed the clustermasx back in 2002/3 i also have my optimask set up in the clustermasx configuration, Bens original intent was the bag out the front using a mouthpiece so that the user then had both hands free to do injections etc , the photo shows how to configure it :)

zany

WP_20150401_16_22_02_Pro.jpg

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Batch,

Thanks for the information very informative. I just checked how long it takes for my O2 bag to fill using 8 Lpm. It takes 11 seconds. The huffing method works for me but it takes much longer. Is 11 seconds of holding the O2 in dangerous to me? I do not want to be giving bad advice. 

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I have used everything from a cutting torch with a wet wash cloth over the tip to the Clustermask. Had a Redneck set up for a while too. As Batch said, the faster and harder I go the faster the abort comes. Even with hyperventilating, I hold the O2 for a second or two and exhale with force. Like taking a tidal flow test at the doctors. I exhale till it squeaks.:rolleyes: Then a big fast inhale. After a good drop in pain, I move to deep breathing at about 10/15lpm from 25lpm. Just slow everything down and hold a little longer. Then when I am sure the hit is over, move onto post breathing.

 

Recently, I was so exhausted from multiple hits, I had a hard time maintaining rhythm. I would go hard and fast, but slow down too much too soon. The result was another hit while doing post breathing!!! Pretty well sucked and I would have said O2 did not work for me at that point!!! Technique is everything!:)

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Thanks for all the shares on this thread, I have definitely learned to find my own technique (it only took 19 years..lol). If I hyperventilate and hold the big O2 hit for as long as I can, I have had success in this cycle dropping my abort times down drastically. I am writing this now at a little over 84 hours of CH free time, moved into no shadow living for now. It has been really a hard cycle as I had a 6 year break from the beast. Kept a journal this time which really helped to see the amounts and times and severity. 39 attacks in 21 days and 65 in 54 day period. I am fingers crossed I will have a good break and stay episodic, and have not moved chronic ( my worry is I am days away from my 40th bday, I have read about people changing at that point in their life) I have not busted yet, but plan on being prepared for the future. Thanks again to all of you fellow clusterheads, hopefully I will get to meet a few of you at the conference this year.

CB

I also up graded to the M tank, very nice for sure

 

mini pic.png

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Hey Spiny,

Click on the following link.  It will pull down a pdf copy of the anti-inflammatory regimen.  Discuss it with your PCP or neurologist when you ask for the suggested labs.  Once you;ve had the blood draw, get started...  It will minimize then eliminate your daze on oxygen.

http://www.vitamindwiki.com/tiki-download_wiki_attachment.php?attId=7708

Take care and keep us posted,

V/R, Batch

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Hi Batch!

I have been on the regimen for over 4 years now! It has reduced the intensity of my hits and slowed the ramp up time significantly. Thank you! :D

I found that Multi B Complex was an issue for me. B50 might be fine. But B12 made my tongue peel!!! Yuck. So, I chickened out on the B. The coQ10 is new to me and I will add it.

K-2 is hard to find in these parts, so I am going to order it now. Walmart pharmacist said they did not carry it and it was by prescription only! Yes, they have carried it. He was just not very bright.

My initial D reading was in the 30's after spending the summer gardening. This test was done in August and I averaged over an hour a day in the sun sans sunblock. After three years of testing, I settled on 10,000 D in the winter thru spring, starting in September and ending in July. Then I run with 5,000/day. This keeps my D at 100 to 103. My cycles run from Sept. to April or May. Doctor tried to get me to stop supplementing with D a few years ago. Nope. Not happening. Of course the Gov. is now finding that their 'recommendation' of 400 units of D/day is way off anyway. Rather like the 'low fat' diet for cholesterol, no?

I spent 3 years trying to get my neuro to read the protocol. Well, year three, a report had showed up in one of his Neurology magazines regarding D and he asked me to forward it to him. I don't think he ever read it or did anything with it. But, he now has a PA who is very interested in learning about CH. I will take a copy to her my next visit.

I have severe allergies and Benadryl (sp) is an old friend. At this point, I definitely need to add it back at night. Most hits are nocturnal. Well, until this time. :wacko:

I am sure that the current problems stem from extreme stress from last February to this January. This winter, it is all being stubborn. And the barometric pressure has been more crazy than normal too.

Again, thank you for all your efforts and the wonderful results many of us have gotten.

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Hey Spiny,

Glad to hear your neurologist finally wanted some information on the anti-inflammatory regimen and its capacity to prevent CH.  Since posting the following link at VitaminDWiki that downloads the latest version of this regimen on 21 January, 600 copies have been downloaded.  Accordingly, the word is getting out.

http://www.vitamindwiki.com/tiki-download_wiki_attachment.php?attId=7708

I've also translated the above link into the following QR Code.  If you have the free QR Code reader/scanner app on your smart phone, scanning the following QR Code will download a pdf copy of this regimen to your smart phone.

anti-inflammatory_Regimen_qr_code_Small_

If the CH beast is still jumping ugly, there are a few more things to try like adding 1000 mg vitamin C tablet every two hours throughout the day and a 500 mg tablet/day Curcumin.

Take care and please keep us posted.

V/R, Batch

 

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Thanks Batch! I will share that.

For those who have not tried hyperventilating on the way to your O2, it really does cut down on your O2 time. And if you are caught out in public, this method can buy you some time to get to a safe place.

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