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big j

Ibuprofen, d3 question

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I've had my ch under control with d3 for 2 1/2 years now (small hickup last year when I stupidly came off) but just had a flare up this week. I just got laid off last week so I quit taking ibuprofen(daily) and was curious if it being an anti-inflammatory if it helps like the d3 regimen? Or do any of you d3 users ever have to up your does for few days if you have a flare up? I haven't taken the full d3 regimen just a multi and 5000iu daily and my levels were 72 and 74 the two time I had it checked. I've taken a shotgun approach to breaking this cycle and think it's working already but looking for feedback

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Really nobody? No one has flare ups with a good d level? Did I lose credibility when I asked about ibuprofen? Just curious if some always up their dose in the winter? If you do have a flare up do you up your d or try and leave it steady and add other stuff on top till it breaks?

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Hey Big J

I don't use the D3 regimen so can't relate personal experience, however I've known Batch since before he developed the anti inflammatory regime.....I'd reccomend shooting him a PM here and I'm sure he'll give you some input!

I do know from just watching his posts that it is important to include all of the co factors in the regimen for maximum efficacy and the "sweet spot" for most folks is a 85 ng/ml level on the 25 (OH) D test.

I'm sure there will be some other folks along shortly with personal experience...good luck!

Dallas Denny

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I take all of the recommended suppliments for the D3 and sometimes add Benadryl if things flare up a little. I also take melatonin  before I go to sleep at night. I am chronic so I do not get many days without getting a hit but I can tell you things were much worse before I added the D3 regimen and started busting. 

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Hey Big J,

Sorry to be so slow.  Still shoveling snow off the driveway that fell last weekend...

Great question.  It turns out that bacterial and viral infections, allergic reactions, trauma and surgery all result in a drop in serum 25(OH)D concentrations.  This drop can be as much as 70% for surgery and trauma.  If you're taking enough vitamin D3 to keep your serum 25(OH)D above the tipping point that keeps you CH pain free and experience one of the above conditions, you'll get whacked!

Accordingly, the answer to your question is YES.  You will need to up or bump your vitamin D3 dose if you experience any of these medical conditions.  If I suspect a cold, very rare, maybe 3 or 4 since I started this regimen in October of 2010 or an allergic reaction, (more common like yearly), I take a 50,000 IU loading dose of vitamin D3 for two to three days and up my vitamin D3 maintenance dose to 15,000 IU/day to as much as 30,000 IU/day until the symptoms clear.  In the case of allergic reactions, I also take a first-generation antihistamine like Benadryl (Diphenhydramine HCL).

Hope this helps.

Take care and please keep us posted.

V/R, Batch

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Thanks for the feedback everyone. I did up my d3 to 20,000 a day for a few days ( down to 10,000 now) and added verapamil,elavil, Benadryl, melatonin, more caffeine and finally lsd Friday. Its away and I'll probably go back down to 5,000iu in a couple weeks but going to Cancun next week and hoping to drink so waiting till I'm back at least. 

Trying to decide if I want to stay on the verapamil, I doubt it's doing much at this point yet.

Didn't think the ibuprofen would have anything to do with it but it's an anti-inflammatory and it's one of the few things that had changed in my regiment. I take it for knee pain, I know it doesn't directly help ch, just a thought.

Batch how long do d3 levels take to normalize? Since I went to the doctor for verapamil and imitrex they want blood work now and I don't want them freaking out if my levels are a little high from my upped does right now. Thanks again especially to you Batch, d3 has worked better than elevil or topomax and longer now without the side effects

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Hey Big J,

Good questions... but bad move if you drop your vitamin D3 dose to 5000 IU/day.  I'll explain...  The average adult burns through roughly 5,000 IU/day vitamin D3... if its available.  Each sustained dose of vitamin D3 results in a time course 25(OH)D response where the 25(OH)D serum concentration reaches a stable equilibrium.  The following chart developed by Dr. Robert Heaney, MD, illustrates what I'm talking about.

cgjX3S5.jpg

As you can see, a maintenance dose of 5000 IU/day and resulting 25(OH)D serum concentration puts you on the ragged edge of the green zone where CHers have a favorable response to the anti-inflammatory regimen with a significant decrease in the frequency of their CH from an average 3 CH/day down to 3 to 4 CH/Week or they experience a CH pain free response.  While you may be enjoying a favorable response at your present vitamin D3 maintenance dose, dropping it to 5000 IU/day will result in your 25(OH)D serum concentration dropping to roughly 60 ng/mL. 

You might get lucky and remain CH pain free... then again, you might not...  Inflammation from any source, infections, allergies, trauma or surgery all result in a drop in 25(OH)D serum concentration from a few percent up to 70% for trauma or surgery.  What is even worse is the tipping point or threshold 25(OH)D serum concentration where you experience a favorable response also elevates.  Accordingly, if you drop your maintenance dose to 5000 IU/day your serum 25(OH)D will seek a new equilibrium around 60 ng/mL.   Now, if you experience a cold, infection, allergic reaction, trauma or surgery, your 25(OH)D serum concentration will drop to say 40 ng/mL or lower and your tipping point/threshold for a CH pain free response elevates to above 60 ng/mL,  you just made it possible for the CH beast to open a can of whupass and jump ugly onya...

Bottom line... a vitamin D3 maintenance dose of 10,000 IU/day or higher is just fine.  It buys you a reserve or comfort margin that keeps you CH pain free as your 25(OH)D serum concentration and CH pain free threshold fluctuate.

Regarding your lab tests for serum 25(OH)D, calcium and PTH... be sure to ask for all three.  The 25(OH)D serum concentration has nothing to do with with vitamin D3 intoxication/toxicity.  Only your calcium serum concentration matters here.  As long as your serum calcium concentration remains within its normal reference range, there is no vitamin D3 intoxication/toxicity.

I've maintained my 25(OH)D serum concentration throughout 2018 between 136 and 188 ng/mL with an average vitamin D3 maintenance dose between 20,000 to 30,000 IU/day.  My serum calcium remained within its normal reference range throughout the year so my PCP had no problem with this.  Accordingly if your PCP gets his or her knickers in a wad saying your 25(OH)D is too high... point out the fact that your calcium serum concentration is still within its normal reference range, hence no hypercalcemia, i.e., vitamin D3 intoxication/toxicity.

Regarding the verapamil... If you don't think it is doing anything to prevent your CH... stop taking it...  Your heart will love you...

Regarding the elavil (amitriptyline)...  It's a tricyclic antidepressant that has no effect on preventing CH.  At best it may help provide symptomatic relief for depression, but the trade off in adverse side effects are an onerous price to pay...  Burn them...  If amitriptyline gets into the sewage system and flows into your local waterways... It screws up fish big time...

Take care,

V/R, Batch

 

Edited by Batch

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