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Oxygen Demand Valve


adhura
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 8/20/2021 at 3:12 PM, adhura said:

Saw in the video how demand valve can help conserve Oxygen. Cant figure where to buy it in US. Cant find anything online. Anyone bought it ?

I don't like to use Amazon much but I was able to buy one on there for about $30.00 bucks that goes up to 25. 

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eBay is a frequent source.  Not always there, but sometimes.  We got ours there.  It's a very nice thing to have, but . . . I'll be darned if I can see how demand valve conserves any significant amount of O2.  We've had this discussion and I've been outvoted, but I still don't see it.
 

2 hours ago, BoscoPiko said:

I don't like to use Amazon much but I was able to buy one on there for about $30.00 bucks that goes up to 25. 

I've never seen demand valves for sale at amazon.  Are you sure that's what you got?  Do you have a link in your "My orders" section?  I have to admit, here again, that I have always understood that medical demand valve systems could not be obtained in the US without a prescription, unless at a "black market" site like eBay.  Happy to be shown to be wrong about all of this.

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Racer..... You know this stuff as well as anyone.  How much of an improvement would you say a demand valve is over a high-flow regulator with the "Optimask" (ClusterO2 kit)?  My daughter (the person with CH in my family, for those who don't already know that) loves her demand-valve-type system (she has to push a button to get the O2, but it's there on demand), in part because it takes some of the "drama" out of the bag filling and then being emptied.  Making an O2 abort as simple as possible has psychological benefits as well as possible practical ones.  So I have nothing bad to say about demand valves if a person can get one/afford one.  But just in practical terms, and insofar as this can be determined given all the variables, I don't think she gets faster or better aborts than she was getting with a welding reg and the Optimask.  Curious about your view/experience (and others') about this.

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18 hours ago, CHfather said:

eBay is a frequent source.  Not always there, but sometimes.  We got ours there.  It's a very nice thing to have, but . . . I'll be darned if I can see how demand valve conserves any significant amount of O2.  We've had this discussion and I've been outvoted, but I still don't see it.
 

I've never seen demand valves for sale at amazon.  Are you sure that's what you got?  Do you have a link in your "My orders" section?  I have to admit, here again, that I have always understood that medical demand valve systems could not be obtained in the US without a prescription, unless at a "black market" site like eBay.  Happy to be shown to be wrong about all of this.

No I stand corrected it was not a demand valve I apologize.. It was just a regulator... Sorry!! 

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1 minute ago, BoscoPiko said:

No I stand corrected it was not a demand valve I apologize.. It was just a regulator... Sorry!! 

I have only been dealing with CH for a bit over 2-years now and am still learning all the terminology so sorry for the miss post!! Regulator Thing- a- majig!! 

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I concur with CHF.  A demand valve couldn't use and more or less O2 than a bagged regulator.  The demand valve will definitely be faster to huff when first getting on the O2. 

Now, if a person had their flow turned up a lot higher than they were breathing with a bagged regulator, then there would be waste.  (once the bag is full, it will leak out from around the mask).  Simple solution is simply turn your regulator down to the rate you're breathing and there would be zero waste.

J

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I actually have on my "to do" list 3 projects down from where I'm at now... Is to start manufacturing a purge regulator for SCUBA compressors.  I've already designed and tested it, just need to get to the part of queuing it up for manufacturing.  A very small button adapter would easily turn it into a demand valve. :)

J

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Ok....I'll try to muddy the water a tad more. :D

I wrote the following last year about demand valves...

Quote

I have a demand valve, several 25 lpm regs and a 40 lpm reg. My advice is always this...if you have a proper mask like the ones we all recommend here and you can't "outrun" a 25 lpm reg with your effective breathing technique, a demand valve won't help your abort times. Now....what do I mean by "outrun". If you are constantly having to wait for the bag to fill you are outrunning the flow. If there is very little or no wait then you have enough flow for your technique and more flow won't be of use to you.

Now....for the sake of discussion you are outrunning your 25 lpm reg and would benefit from a higher flow rate there are several ways to get it. One is the garbage bag rig which some use but personally I don't care for. Another is the fabled demand valve or just a plain old reg with a flow rate higher than 25. As I stated above I have both. Each has benefits and drawbacks. My demand valve sits beside my bed at the ready for those night time wake up calls. It's easy to reach over, turn the tank on and start huffing. No thought to flow rates, fumbling with dials just grab it and go. To me this is where a demand valve shines. It's good in a car for the same reasons. It does conserve O2 because it gives you no more than you ask for. Drawbacks.....cost. They can be pricey. If money isn't too much of an issue, you believe the flow rate will be of benefit and you like what I've laid out here, go for it. 

But before you do, consider this..... A 40 lpm reg can be had for much less than a new demand valve. It will give most people all the O2 they can handle so abort times will be very close if not the same. Yes it does require more thought to dial in and you'll probably be adjusting it up and down more than a 25 but having that extra flow when you need it is great. If dollars are tight, consider this route.

If I were sitting on the couch watching TV and needed O2, I wouldn't step over one to get to the other....but for the reasons listed above each makes sense in their own way.

Expanding on the above bold comment ... when I'm getting hit hard I really don't have much extra thought to give to my O2 set up. Yes.....as "thathurtsmyhead" says, you can turn the dial on a regulator to match what you need.  Honestly, many times I don't have the sense to do that past cranking it wide open. With a demand valve...if I stop for a few seconds...it stops. If I switch up my breathing technique trying to find what will abort faster this time, I don't have to adjust the flow. It gives me what I want, when I want it. There have been times when the pain is finally draining away I just fall over to lay on the floor exhausted. If I'm on my 40lpm reg, it is still running until it dawns on me to turn the damn thing off. It usually doesn't take long but there is some waste there. 

Abort times....  In the following scenario I see some O2 conservation as well. This is purely anecdotal evidence as I've never actually measured usage. When I had to rely on a 25lpm reg I experienced lag, constantly waiting for the bag to fill. I still had a decent abort time but it could have been better. Enter the demand valve....with it I could abort quicker. I started noticing that my tanks were lasting a little longer. My thinking is with the faster abort from the higher rate it's not taking as much TOTAL volume as it did with a 25lpm. Now if I'm on the 40lpm.....this is a moot point as I abort in roughly the same time as I would using the demand valve. 

Now that everyone is thoroughly confused, I'll crawl back in my hole and watch the fun. 

Edited by Racer1_NC
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Thank you.  Not confusing at all, I don't think, and vey helpful to me.

My understanding:

Benefits of demand valve: (1) It resolves the issue of waiting for the bag to fill (other things will do that, too, such as a reg with the necessary lpm, but DV does it brilliantly); (2) no waiting, no fiddling: It's there, it does what you need when you need it without you having to think about it or play with dials, which is a particularly big benefit for quickly addressing nighttime hits or in other circumstances (e.g., in the car); (3) it can save some O2 in some circumstances. I would add what I mentioned before -- that at least for my daughter, there are psychological advantages from having no bag and having the "ideal" delivery system, and any psychological benefit in this situation is not insignificant.

Disadvantage: Cost. Similar or equal abort times can be achieved with a reg that will cost far less, as long as that reg has sufficient lpm to be sure the bag is always full for the next inhale -- recognizing that a reg is imperfect compared to the DV when it comes to the "no waiting, no fiddling" and possible other less tangible psychological benefits.

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3 hours ago, CHfather said:

Thank you.  Not confusing at all, I don't think, and vey helpful to me.

My understanding:

Benefits of demand valve: (1) It resolves the issue of waiting for the bag to fill (other things will do that, too, such as a reg with the necessary lpm, but DV does it brilliantly); (2) no waiting, no fiddling: It's there, it does what you need when you need it without you having to think about it or play with dials, which is a particularly big benefit for quickly addressing nighttime hits or in other circumstances (e.g., in the car); (3) it can save some O2 in some circumstances. I would add what I mentioned before -- that at least for my daughter, there are psychological advantages from having no bag and having the "ideal" delivery system, and any psychological benefit in this situation is not insignificant.

Disadvantage: Cost. Similar or equal abort times can be achieved with a reg that will cost far less, as long as that reg has sufficient lpm to be sure the bag is always full for the next inhale -- recognizing that a reg is imperfect compared to the DV when it comes to the "no waiting, no fiddling" and possible other less tangible psychological benefits.

What he said..... :D

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