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Bejeeber, March 16, 2011 in General Board
I've been on the D3/Omega 3 regime for about two weeks now. I take 10,000 IU of D3, 3,600 mg of Omega 3 Fish oil, and one Calcium/Mag/Zinc combo a day. Prior to starting the regime, I was getting hit three times a day (9am, 3pm, and 7pm) at about a K7 for one of them and the other two K5 or less. I have only had one CH (a chlorine trigger K8 after sitting by a jacuzzi with a friend) since the third day of the regime. I have heavy shadowing some days and have had a few close calls, but that is it. I don't take any other medication nor do I have O2 at the time. I've noticed that the shadows and near CHs are very response to caffeine, exercise, and other abortive approaches then ever before. I will continue to take these vitamins until my cycle is over and will jump on it again when my next cycle comes around! Thanks you Batch!
Thanks for starting this thread, Jeebs!
I started this yesterday and will keep you posted:
In addition to the D3, Fish Oil and Calcium Citrate (those were actually the regimen) I have modify my diet and drink lots of lemonade (easy source to move acid to alkaline).
Hubby Episodic 14yrs, about 2yrs between ea cycle. Ea cycle last 6-8 wks. As far as we can recall he has always had only one a night. A bad one, usually 3hrs. Possibly some K3 here & there that we never counted as we mainly feared the big ones, and had no info other than they were called Cluster HA's. No docts or meds till this cycle started in Jan. About midway he received Sumatriptan. The day b4 he got the meds he was hit 4 times and that continued through what we considered the remainder of the cycle. Then after a few days PF (about the time his cycle should end)he started getting a couple K3/4's mainly just annoying. Usually only one at night. Ice for about 30 mins and gone. We considered them rebound hits. I had read the thread on CH and added the Vit D3 and Fish oil a few weeks ago. After 3 days, no more hits. He quite taking it as we wanted to get a clear base line for some blood work. About 3 days and the same hits returned. Again back on and about 2-3 days no hits. He stopped again same thing. Hits returned in a couple days. He has been back on for 3-4 days and no hits for the last 2 days
update. Derek had a mild HA on the 4th and 7th of April (mainly shadows/sore neck - no pain radiating into the eye) we returned from vacation and he stopped taking the VD3, FO and magn on about the 15th. (approx. one week ago) no shadows or hits thus far. I am HOPING he is finally over this drawn out,Â and unusual cycle.
Fingers crossed, DG.
he stopped taking the VD3, FO and magn on about the 15th.
DG, did he stop as a test, or because in some way he didn't like them?Â Seems like a sound, not-risky regimen (and possible long-term preventive), maybe at slightly lower levels, regardless of whether one's in cycle or not.Â (I've been taking lower levels of those things and I think I feel better for it, and I've encouraged my daughter to take higher--but not highest--levels in case there's a long-term beneficial effect.)
and CH Father, yes, partially as a test, but partially that we are still hoping he will have a two year break - that would give us plenty of time to get his system back to what are "normal" levels for him so that we can do some extensive blood work. We want to have those levels to test against when he goes back into cycle. We hope that the information will be valuable in understanding what is going on in his body during his cycles. As he is not chronic, we feel like we can take this risk before he will bust, or we may try to balance his system naturally if there seems to be something that makes sense to try first based on the test results once he is in cycle. Part of this would be to help glean any information that might help understand CH for the greater good of all and partly it is to satisfy our own "what if's" about what might be discovered.
I've been using the D3, FO, etc for a week now.Â I'm not sure if it's due to these supplements or because of the busts I'm doing, but CH frequency and pain have been lower.Â Â
I had the opportunity to discuss the supplements/dosage with my primary physician.Â He was actually quite knowledgeable about supplements and was supportive. His only concern was if I were to use 15000mg or more of D3 daily for a period of 3 months or longer - then he suggested I get blood work done every 3 months.Â (I'm currently using 10,000mg D3)
Kaboom, do you mind talking specifically about what you're doing with the D3?Â I'm trying to put together one of my "summaries" as a reference for others, but the testing is all over the map.Â It seems particularly important for this site to know how it's being done while busting, and how it is (or at least seems to be) working.
(And also, okay, my daughter's cycle is probably imminent, and I want to be able to give her my best advice when (if) it hits.Â So a personal thank-you to you, in addition to whatever can be compiled for the larger audience.)
So . . .
You're taking two 5IU D3s a day, I figure -- are you taking them with food (that's recommended)?Â How much O3 fish oil?Â And the "etc" -- is that the recommended 2 calcium citrate tablets with magnesium, zinc, and additional D3?Â Are you doing anything else, like the lemonade-drinking, to shift from acid to alkaline?Â Are you doing any of the self-testing for acidity that Batch describes at the ch.com thread?
CH frequency and pain have been lower
Whether it's the busts or the D3 or both, YES YES YES that is genuinely NIFTY!Â
Started last Sunday:
Supplements taken in the p.m. with a small snack + glass of lemon water.
Calcium 1,000mg/Magnesium500mg/D 400mg (combo tablets)
Fish Oil 3,000 mg (three 1,000mg softgels)
D3Â 10,000 mg (two 5,000mg softgels)
I haven't done any of the self-testing.
Since my CHs increase in the afternoon, I may experiment taking the supplements at lunch rather than than before bed to see if that will have any effect on them. (p.m. was just routine for me as this is when I take most of my usual supplements)
For anybody who experiences nausea from vitamins or burping from nasty fish oil - I've found that adding 1 or 2 550mg capsules of powdered ginger helps greatly in preventing this.Â Â
I just started supplementing as well:
D3 400IU - twice per day with meal
Fish Oil 1200mg - three times per day with meal
Calcium, Magnesium, and Zinc - contains 333mg cal, 133mg mag, 5mg z - three times per day with meal.
Scott, not sure if you're asking me . . . and not sure I know the answer.Â From what I've read at the ch.com thread, people experiment with D3 dosages between about 15000IU and about 7000IU, depending on their tolerance and also the perceived effectiveness.Â So, you're at the lower end there, but not far from the 10000IU that seems to be the norm.Â
The calcium that's recommended there is "calcium citrate."Â Don't know whether that's the same as what you're taking, though it is apparently often formulated with magnesium and zinc (and some added D3). In one of his posts at ch.com, the popularizer of this regimen, Batch, says this:
>>>I had originally attributed several week long CH remissions to a buffering regimen of calcium citrate tablets that also contained vitamin D3, magnesium and zinc washed down with homemade lemonade...
However, upon review of my logs I found there were two more factors that came into play during three of these remissions. The first was increasing the dose of the calcium citrate tablets up from three to four/day.Â The other was two of the week-long CH remissions occurred while I wasn't taking the calcium citrate tablets but I was taking the Omega 3 Fish Oil while spending a good bit of time outside in direct sunlight wearing shorts and tank top working in the yard.
I connected the dots last October while I was here in Bremerton, Washington working on the house.Â I realized that the CH remissions I'd attributed to the calcium citrate and citric acid buffer were more than likely due to the increased level of vitamin D3 from sunlight so I stopped by Costco and picked up a bottle of 2,000I.U. softgel capsules and started dosing at 10,000I.U. a day along with three of the 1000mg Omega 3 Fish Oil softgel capsules. . . . <<<<
Here's a link to that post, or the general vicinity of it; it's reply #37 on this page: http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1291969416/25
In several other places in that thread, Batch also says that he attributes the effectiveness to the D3/fish oil (or even just the D3 itself).Â So I'm not sure what the citrate adds -- but I suppose there's no reason not to take it.
He also talks in that thread about lemonade/margaritas (!) as a regular strategy to change his pH.
Looking forward to hearing how this works for you -- hope it's great!!! Oxygen will be very good, too: That I know.
Fellow clusterheads, I have been on the "Batch" regime for about 3 weeks now, but I take 20,000 IU of D3, 3,600 Fish Oil w Omega 3 & 6 and 3,000 mg of Calcium Citrate and drink lemonade with lunch and dinner. I am eposodic and my cycles usually run for 3 months and this is the end of the 3rd month. When I started the regimen I was getting hit anywhere from 10-18 times a day every day. About half the hits were 4-5 but several were 8-9 (each day). Beginning with the second week on the regime my hits began to reduce and I got fewer and fewer high kip hits. Last Monday night I was hit (in my sleep of course) with a 10 that I could not abort with O2 and had to take a zomig (which of course ruined my detox which I was doing in prep of dose). Then on Tues and Wed I got hit only a couple of times each day and each hit was only in the 5 range. Beginning Thursday through today I have no more hits or shadowing. I honestly don't know if the regimen took hold or if my cycle was ending on its own and except for knowing the regime worked on me I don't care as long as I am PF. Beginning yesterday I dropped the D3 down to 6,000 IC and the Calcium Citrate down to 2,000 mg but am keeping the Fish Oil at 3,600 mg. I plan to continue this regimen forever. I know this is probably of little help but is a report of my use of the regime. Also I now play to delay dosing for while since I am PF at the present, if the hits return then I will dose.
Thanks all and wishing each of you to have PF days regardless of how you get there.
which of course ruined my detox which I was doing in prep of dose
Thank you, wb, for this post. All information is helpful. I'm just curious about whether you dosed at all during this cycle. Doesn't sound like it, but I wanted to be sure.
I am not a superstitious guy, but I do fear the fecking jinx, so I won't say anything more.
This seems like an alarming amount of d3. I am not a nutritionist so I'm not an authority. I need to look further in to this.
Ok I overreatced. I should research before I speak. My bad. 10,000IU seems safe and maybe even higher is ok. Maybe a blood test after some use is warranted.
Actually, the magnesium I picked up has calcium carbonate, not citrate.
CHfather you are correct I did not dose during this period. I was actually preparing to dose on shrooms for the first time in 3 years (long story why so long, but seeds never really worked for me).
For those of you that dose as a preventative any advise as to when I should dose? For years I was 3 mos off and 3 months in cycle. Then about 2 years ago I had a 6month on and 6 month off, then I went an entire year until this cycle. My thought was if I did not begin cycle before then was to dose in the fall (maybe around time change).
HELLO EVERYONE i WAS JUST TRYING TO DETOX BUT MISERABLY FAILED THE ATTEMPT CAUSE o2 DID NOT WORK AND I HAD TO RESORT TO SHOTS OF IMTREX AND INCREASING THE AMOUNT OF VERAP AGAIN ,i AM GETTING HIT EVERY HOUR AND A HALF AT NIGHT I WAS TRYING TO DETOX FOR THE LIQ ROOT BUT CULD NOT TAKE THE PAIN WITH NO POSSIBLE WAY OUT .YESTERDAY I CAME ACROSS THIS THREAD AND WENT TO GET D3 AND OM3 ,QUESTION CAN I TAKE THESE WITH THESE MEDS IN MY SISTEM? DO I NECESSERYLY NEED TO ADD CALCIUM AND MAG?? .. :-/
yury sorry to hear you are in such pain but trust me I understand about 10 days ago and for the previous 2 weeks I was getting hit 10-18 times a day and like you every hour during the night, all night long.
To your question the D3, Fish Oil and Calcium Nitrate won't interfere with the meds you listed. I am no expert but yes you need the Calcium Nitrate really for a couple of reasons the main one being the D3 dosage will eat up calcium so you need this supplement to counterbalance. I won't profess to explain the other reasons other than it helps you PH Balance which much of the time if way off (too acidity) when in cycle. Also you need to add fresh made lemonade and drink a glass with lunch and dinner.
Also to your failing detox, I did the same thing and was only lacking one day when I got hit with a 10 at night and could not abort with O2 and took a zomig nasal spray. I now have been able to detox and ready to dose and all of a sudden my hits have disappeared, only 1 minor hit in a week.
Good luck and I hope and pray you are PF soon.
thanks WB I WILL GET SOME CALCIUM ,ONE QUESTION HOW LONG DO I NEED TO DETOX TO DOSE? :-/
Yury, I don't think this question has been fully answered yet . . . but it seems like you can try it without detoxing. The thread over at ch.com is long and winding, but clearly there are folks having success with D3 while using some conventional CH meds, such as verapamil. What levels of D3, O-3, and calcium citrate are you planning to take?
The url for that D3 thread at ch.com is http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1291969416/50
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