Jump to content
ClusterBusters
Sign in to follow this  
les genser

a potential new option

Recommended Posts

anyone try it yet im excited :D

les just to make things clear, the side effects i might experience from this are higher blood pressure and.. what exactly?  its not like using the rc seed tea or mushrooms or anything right?

should i wait five days in between doses of licorice root just like with the other stuff?

thanks :)

anyone try it yet?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi...

A quick note on side effects: bear in mind that most side effects of prescription meds occur at normal dosage levels. The potential side effects of licorice root are usually the result of taking in way too much.

Here is as complete a list as possible:

1. The most serious side effect is known as hyperaldosteronism, which is a mineralocorticoid effect (I know, I know, WTF is this shit???). It is very simply a chain of things that happen when your sodium and water balance gets messed up. This is mediated by aldosterone, cortisols and hormones called 'mineralocorticoids' (sounds like something from Buckaroo Banzai, doesn't it?). The effects associated with this syndrome are hypertension (elevated blood pressure), edema (fluid retention), hypokalemia (low sodium levels) and /or sodium retention.

Note that most cases of this syndrome, which covers pretty much all of the possible side effects, have occurred due to overconsumption of real licorice candy. There are considerably fewer reports of adverse reactions from people taking normal therapeutic doses.

"DGL" licorice products, which have the glycyrrhizin removed, have NONE of these side effects. I just don't know if they would be as effective.

I usually suggest to people that while taking licorice you should try to eat foods rich in potassium and reduce your sodium intake to avoid any potential side effects. And keep an eye on your blood pressure.

Primarily because of the possibility of hyperaldosteronism, licorice root is contraindicated in people with kidney disease and high blood pressure. It should be used very cautiously by pregnant women, pretty much for the same reasons.

This is what I have been doing:

I am using a 1:5 40% tincture of licorice root. DO NOT use teas, candies or anything other than a whole plant product. DO NOT use powdered prepackaged capsules, pills or anything other than a tincture, not even if Jesus himself personally packed them. Powdered herbs lose their potency VERY quickly. This, more than anything, has given herbal treatments a bad name, since they tend not to work. Herbs are far more like foods than drugs; they are much better fresh. Tinctures are prepared from fresh or freshly-dried plants and retain all the active properties of the plant in an easy-to-use form; and they keep at room temperature indefinitely, as long as not exposed to direct sunlight. The one I am using I made over two years ago.

I have been taking roughly 2 milliliters of this tincture (that is about two squeezes of a dropper, about 30 drops) three times a day, every day. Doses are spaced as with meds, about every 6-8  hours. To take it, you just put it in about an ounce of water (a shot glass worth) and slug it down.

I am, at the same times, taking a similar dose of Skullcap tincture. This is a superb and gentle calming herb with sedative and mood enhancing qualities. This is not entirely necessary as I am sure the licorice is doing the heavy lifting, but I just like it.

I can report that my mood and affect are noticeably lifted about twenty to thirty minutes after dosing. I have been carefully watching for adverse reactions but so far I cannot report any. I have, in over three weeks of this regimen, had one relatively mild attack of very short duration which lasted about ten minutes with no recurrence. I have had maybe two or three instances where I felt I was triggering (those feedback loops I talked about, remember them?) but I stayed calm, went outside and breathed some cold air and they simply passed. Prior to starting this treatment I was experiencing a pattern of 3 to 6 hits a day/night, severe to I-want-to-die severe.

I hope this answers your questions.

Obviously, I cannot just come out and say hey people!!! try this!!! because everyone knows that is against the law...

I can only report what I am doing; but I don't consider myself a mutant, or physiologically different, and I know we are all individuals with a rare and individuated condition, but I believe what works for me would probably help a lot of others. I really hope so.

Les G.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Les,

I'm fascinated and very interested in having my 26-year-old son try it. I've looked at several websites selling tinctures of licorice and would like to know if you could recommend any one over the others. I know you make your own but have you seen any for sale that matches your tincture closely enough that you would recommend our trying it? Thanks.

Ron

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm with Veggie here.  Wondering if anyone has had a chance to try this.  I would guinea up on this pig if it wasn't for that last pesky dose of Paxil that I'm on...seems to interfere with everything.  Apparently, serotonin receptors are like air traffic controllers in the brain. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Got the script!  I actually had a great doc's appointment; he was genuinely concerned, which I appreciated.  O2 hasn't gotten delivered because of the holidays and now we're getting dumped on with snow.  Hopefully they'll make it tomorrow, if not then Tuesday.  But it sure is peaceful and lovely outside. 

Managing in the meantime with the triptans...the doc hooked me up with some free samples and wrote a script for Sumavel needle-free injection.  Thought my cluster was breaking for a couple days, but then they crashed the Christmas party.  Dropped from 360 mg verap to 240, waiting for the O2 to keep dropping and gear up for the big bust.  I don't know how I'm going to fare going back to school after the winter break while trying to wean off the verap...feeling a little tentative but curiosity and optimism are winning out and it's onward, HO (ho ho)!

I'm concerned about the 10 mg Paxil I'm on interfering with the bust, but I'm going to give it a whirl.  I will definitely keep everyone posted on here on how that goes.  Getting off of that is definitely a long-term goal, but it's actually incredibly difficult.  I've tried several times, and you'd swear you were coming off of heroin.  Ever seen Trainspotting?  Same general idea: fever, electrical surges in your brain, crying jags...very nasty stuff.   

Anyway, thanks for asking, Jerry. Hope you and your family had a great holiday.  How is your daughter?  Send me a PM so we don't hijack this thread anymore than I already have.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi folks ....to try to end the confusion:

1. Licorice root is completely legal.

2.A 'tincture' is a liquid preparation which uses solvents (usually alcohol, water, glycerine, vinegar or some combination of them) to remove the active constituents of a plant or plant part and put them in solution to facilitate their use as medicinals.

3. For Bonkers: if you are in So Cal. you can get a good tincture at a lot of places; any good health food store, or whole foods type market, or GNC type place. Pharmacies sometimes carry homeopathics and 'alternative' stuff. Also, California is one of I believe two places in the country where herbalists can actually practice so you should be in good shape.

4. The legality issue is of course the medicine w/o license thing.

Have a good day

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks, Les. I ordered and received a packet of HBWR seeds and planned on trying them by themselves as our next experiment. I think we'll hold off on the seeds and try the licorice tincture next instead. I'll of course report back with our results. Ron

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jilly.....quick qord of warning about the suma pro needleless system. It's out of this world expensive, most insurances won't cover it. My doc prescribed me that, had to get it changed back to the old style imitrex stat dose system when the insurance company said no  way. :(

Joe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If I recall Joe, you're with Cigna. I am too and they've been very lenient. If they won't pay for it, I expect you will have a hard time, Jilly. By the way, the proforma quantities allowed by insurance companies is way too low, something like 4 injections per week. My doctor called them (as did my Cigna case manager) and they permitted 2 per day. -T

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I read Les' post here right before taking a road trip. I have been getting early warning symptoms of the return of a ECH cycle for about a month and started RC busting immediately. 4 busts, 7 days apart. No big hits during that time but waking up once a night and needing an O2 hit. On the road I picked up some licorice root tincture and started taking that about 5 days ago as prescribed by Les. Since then I have not had a need for O2 and the various shadow pains have subsided. Nothing conclusive yet but my gut feeling is that the licorice root is making a difference. Thanks Les! I'll keep taking it and see what happens. So far it seems I am keeping a return of the cycle at bay, either with RC, licorice root, or both.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, I for one, am optimistic enough to want to keep this thread going and see what others experience with licorice root. Day 6 and I again slept through the night. the ancillary stuff in the neck and shoulders is much diminished, if not almost gone. And I can attest to the serotonin uptake inhibitor effect as I have felt a nice sense of calm after the initial anxiety of fearing another cycle approaching. Again, I did dose 4 times with RC seeds but otherwise I have been clean of all other meds since early in my last cycle one year ago before detoxing to try the seeds.

Which did work for me after 5 doses increasing from 20 to 60 seeds.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Needless to say, I am thrilled beyond words that you are having a positive experience.

To update my own situation:

1. I stopped taking the tincture four days ago, cold. It just seemed like the right time, and I have been completely symptom free so far. This is exceptionally unusual given my typical chronic pattern.

2. I have contacted a sometime- teacher of mine, who is currently on the board of the American Herbalists Guild. I am going to try to interest people more qualified than me to look into this.

3. I try to check this board every day. If anyone has questions regarding this modality I will be happy to answer them if I can.

Les

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey so basicaly this herb affects testosterone, sodium levels and in some kind of mechanism, might be ceasing the way Cluster Headache start? That is really interesting, I might read about that and try that as option for my next bout of attacks.

-Mat

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Les,

I bought some licorice tincture tonight at Windmill Farms, the only one of two large "Health-food" stores (the other being GNC) that had it. It varies slightly from yours. Mine sez: Herb strength ratio 1:3, alc 45-55% by volume. Dosage is 30-60 drops, 2-3 times daily. It cost about the same as yours. Whaddaya think? Is that close enough? I figured I'd give him 40 drops, 3 times a day. If his last bust attempt is successful, he should be PF tomorrow; so we'll wait a couple of days so as not to confuse our results with those of the bust. Thanks for this. I'm glad you're here.

Ron

p.s. - Hi Matty!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ron: That should work fine. The 1:3 means it slightly more concentrated than the one I made. As to dosage, you needn't count drops or anything.. two squeezes of the dropper should be a little over 30 drops, about 2 milliliters. Put it in about one inch of water in a glass, like one or two shots worth, and drink it. It is very tasty, as tinctures go. Most root tinctures taste like dirt and lawn clippings.

As to the alcohol, the thirty or so drops are only half alcohol by volume, and thats further diluted in the glass. I can't speak for everybody of course, but I am so triggered by alcohol I haven't had a drink in years, and it doesn't affect me in the least. If you were to wait 48 hours after busting that should be sufficient. I'm with you guys.

For Matty: Check my earlier posts in here, I tried to explain how and why this stuff seems to work...if you Google 'licorice root' with 'serotonin' you should get some of the research papers.

ANYONE CONSIDERING THIS , please check the earlier posts for possible side effects, contraindications and drug interactions especially if you are currently taking MAO inhibitors or SSRI's.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks, Les. If he isn't PF by tomorrow, we'll know the bust was unsuccessful and will start with the licorice. Btw, alcohol isn't a trigger for Michael. Yeah, I know, there's a lot that's weird about his HAs. Ron

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×