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Tony Only

Busting with this medication

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Aloha !

We have a female patient who is planning to start busting (first timer) with RC seeds (LSA). She sent me her medication list but I am not familiar with asthma medications, or hormonal supplements. DO you see anything in this medication list that could be a problem, blocking, interfering or amplifying in busting treatment ?

Asthma medications: Singulair , Ventoline , Spiriva respimat , Sereride , Alvesco
Medrol (for bronchitis)
Zolt (for heartburn or to use with Medrol)
Candesartan (beta blocker)
Estrogel , Vagifem (hormonal)

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You are presenting a fairly significant list of prescription drugs largely aimed a an individual with  significant reactive airway (or COPD) lung disease.  The asthma meds are a mix of bronchodilators (open up airways), inhaled steroids and a combination of the two.  The medrol is a steroid (fairly equal to prednisone in potency) I would assume being indicated for the lung condition.  Zolt is a proton pump inhibitor similar to protonix which blocks the production of gastric juices irreversibly.  It works through an enzyme system and generally is used in short courses, it does not work right away but you dont want to use it in a sustained manner either.  A beta blocker is usually used for hypertension although it has a role in migraine prevention and heart disease.  The estrogen preparations are used vaginally and have little systemic absorption once used for 6-12 weeks.

So if you subscribe to the belief steroids are blockers there is a concern about the medrol and some of the inhaled meds.  The bronchodilators can cause feelings of anxiety and a rapid heart rate but should not block.  I doubt the proton pump inhibitor is an issue.  Systemic estrogen can increase drug metabolism in the liver but usually vaginal estrogen doses are insufficient to cause that.  Beta blockers show up on some blocking lists but I doubt its a real issue.

This is the med list of a person who has significant medical issues.  Would not advise stopping any of the pulmonary drugs without close medical supervision.  If she has been on steroids a long time I suspicion they are required for handling physiologic stress and weaning is probably not practical.

She needs to be well prepared for the anxiety that can accompany a busting experience and a sitter needs to understand her breathing issues.  Ultimately it is her decision but tread lightly 

Significant care and caution are urged.

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10 hours ago, Pebblesthecorgi said:

You are presenting a fairly significant list of prescription drugs largely aimed a an individual with  significant reactive airway (or COPD) lung disease.  The asthma meds are a mix of bronchodilators (open up airways), inhaled steroids and a combination of the two.  The medrol is a steroid (fairly equal to prednisone in potency) I would assume being indicated for the lung condition.  Zolt is a proton pump inhibitor similar to protonix which blocks the production of gastric juices irreversibly.  It works through an enzyme system and generally is used in short courses, it does not work right away but you dont want to use it in a sustained manner either.  A beta blocker is usually used for hypertension although it has a role in migraine prevention and heart disease.  The estrogen preparations are used vaginally and have little systemic absorption once used for 6-12 weeks.

So if you subscribe to the belief steroids are blockers there is a concern about the medrol and some of the inhaled meds.  The bronchodilators can cause feelings of anxiety and a rapid heart rate but should not block.  I doubt the proton pump inhibitor is an issue.  Systemic estrogen can increase drug metabolism in the liver but usually vaginal estrogen doses are insufficient to cause that.  Beta blockers show up on some blocking lists but I doubt its a real issue.

This is the med list of a person who has significant medical issues.  Would not advise stopping any of the pulmonary drugs without close medical supervision.  If she has been on steroids a long time I suspicion they are required for handling physiologic stress and weaning is probably not practical.

She needs to be well prepared for the anxiety that can accompany a busting experience and a sitter needs to understand her breathing issues.  Ultimately it is her decision but tread lightly 

Significant care and caution are urged. 

Thank you so much Pebblesthecorgi :) I will translate your excellent post here in finnish so the lady in question is able to read it in her own language, and does not have to use the Google translate that usually does not do very good job with finnish. (in purple)

Esittelet tässä merkittävän listan reseptilääkkeitä joita käytetään yleensä huomattavan hengitystiesairauden (tai keuhkoahtauman) hoidossa. Astmalääkkeet ovat yleensä avaavia tai hengitettäviä steroideja (kortisoni) tai näiden kahden sekoituksia. Medrol on steroidi (aika lailla samaa luokkaa prednisonen kanssa vahvuudessa) jota luultavasti käytetään johonkin keuhkoihin liittyvään. Zolt on protonipumpun estäjä jota käytetään närästyksen hoidossa. Sitä käytetään yleensä lyhyissä jaksoissa, se ei vaikuta heti mutta sitä ei tulisi käyttää myöskään jatkuvasti. Betasalpaajaa määrätään yleensä kohonneen verenpaineen hoitoon mutta sitä voidaan käyttää myös migreenin hoidossa tai sydänsairauden hoidossa. Estrogeenivalmisteita käytetään sisäisesti ja niillä on hyvin vähän vaikutusta kun niitä käytetään 6-12 viikkoa.

Joten jos uskot ajatukseen että steroidit voivat olla blokkaavia tekijöitä niin silloin tässä jonkinasteisia huolenaiheita ovat Medrol ja jotkin hengitettävistä lääkkeistä. Avaavat lääkkeet voivat aiheuttaa ahdistusta ja nostaa sykettä mutta niiden ei pitäisi blokata (estää vaikutusta). En usko että protonipumpun estäjä on ongelma. Estrogeeni voi vaikuttaa lääkkeiden metaboliaan maksassa, mutta sisäisesti käytettävät estrogeeniannokset ovat niin pieniä että niillä ei pitäisi olla roolia tässä. Betasalpaajat on mainittu joskus blokkaavina mutta en usko että ne ovat oikea huolenaihe myöskään.

Tämä on sellaisen henkilön lääkelista, jolla on huomattavia terveyshuolia. En suosittelisi lopettamaan mitään säännöllisessä käytössä olevia lääkkeitä ilman lääkärin tarkkaa valvontaa. Jos hän on käyttänyt steroideja kauan, niillä on oma merkitys myös psyykkisen stressin sietämisessä eikä niistä irroittautuminen ole käytännöllistä.

Hänen täytyy ola hyvin valmistautunut ahdistukseen jota voi liittyä bustaamiskokemukseen ja "vahti" joka on hänen kanssaan ja ymmärtää mahdollista hengittämispuolta. Loppujen lopuksi se on hänen päätös mutta suosittele hellästi.

Huomattavaa varovaisuutta ja huolenpitoa täytyy harjoittaa.

Edited by Tony Only

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She is currently having a respiratory infection on top of her asthma so it's probably wise to wait to recover from that. She just sent me rest of the meds and supplements she is on:

- Indomethacin
- Para tabs (paracetamol)
- Dymista nasal spray

- Sirdalud  - relaxant

- Ferrodan (iron) + lactoferrin

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Indomethacin is a powerful non steroidal, sort of a super ibuprofen, which is generally taken in a short course.  It is also used by knowledgeable headache experts to distinguish between cluster headaches and another trigeminal autonomic cephalgia (TAC) called hemicranium continuum.  Cephalgia is a fancy name for headache. Para tabs are tylenol (acetaminophen).  Dymista is a combination of steroid and antihistamine for nasal inhalation. Sirdalud is an alpha-2 receptor blocker that can be used to treat muscle spasms.  I do not think any of these medications alone would interfere with a bust.  When you throw a whole bunch of supplements and medications into the mix unpredictable things can happen.  Thoughtful use and proper preparation will handle most adverse side effects.  As a rule its best to reduce expose by limiting non essential medications.. Once her pulmonary health is stable I believe she can consider busting with a certain degree of confidence.  Again, the concern with any non traditional intervention is the unfamiliarity with the experience and potential overreaction to symptoms while in the midst of a psychedelic experience.  The best way to combat or avoid this is by proper preparation by the individual and their sitter.  It can not be emphasized enough the importance of proper set and setting with these molecules.  Of course one does not need a full blown psychedelic experience to benefit cluster headaches in many cases. It is best to be prepared in case the individual gets more than they bargained for with a treatment.  Since things like MM are very variable in content of active ingredient a person might find themselves  further out there than intended.  You are a good soul and friend to translate and help others, it is not an easy task.

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