CHfather

Gosh, I'm one of those guys who might cut the handle off the toothbrush so I could lift it more easily. Bless you! And thanks again for your generous presence here.

Like everyone says, dosage is a highly individualized thing, also affected by the quality and freshness of the seeds. I'm no expert. My thought would be that 50 is definitely too few to buy (if that's what you're asking about--you might take 4-5 doses at an average of maybe 40 or more per dose), and maybe a bit too many for a first dose (if that's what you're asking about). Re the first dose, I'd ask that at your other thread.

Thanks, Lt2--and thanks also for the licorice root/taurine idea, which makes good sense (and, yes, Les did say the LR could be used as an abortive). For whatever it might be worth, there's a portable backpack-based oxygen system on p24 here: http://www.ouch-us.org/medications/oxygen/O2_CH_Abortive_v2r7_Final.pdf

my daughter volunteered today that she might come. of course, she's the ch person in the family, so i guess that means she'd be bringing her dad.

plenty of golf, including some nice ones very nearby. no trysting tree or ocean dunes (or bandon dunes), but nice enough. of course, the way things are going it might still be snowing then. i'd be happy to arrange some day-before or day-after golf, if there's interest.Â

Kika, more has been written at Len Genser's licorice root thread since I created this summary, but I don't think the basics have changed, so for what it might be worth: http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cb/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1298659068 If the idea is appealing to you, then you could read through the thread, or the last 20 or so posts. I wouldn't disregard the D3 either, given the success stories. Although the thread at ch.com is long, complicatedly ADD-unfriendly, and imprecise, the rudiments are extremely simple. Since I want to summarize them for my own purposes at some point, if you want me to I'll create a summary of that one for you. Just let me know. But it's basically give or take 10,000 international units of D3 (depending on tolerance and efficacy), taken with food. The "author" of that treatment, Batch, also mentions 1-3 thousand mg of Omega3 fish oil and some calcium citrate tablets containing magnesium and D3, but some people are doing well on just the D3, and it's my impression that Batch is agreeing that while the others are nice and probably beneficial, it's the D3 that really matters.Â

Lt2, I really appreciate your clear and thorough updates, which are really important for those of us facing decisions about ways to deal with CH. Thank you. I recall that in a post you were critical of those who say "oxygen, oxygen"; and I am clearly one of those people. So, with some trepidation, I'm wondering why you choose not to use it. No judgment whatsoever -- you're clearly capable of making that decision for yourself. I just figure it might make me a little smarter to know about your choice. Or maybe it just doesn't work for you? Thanks, if you choose to reply.

We (my daughter and I) chose RC for three reasons. First, I had read Dr. Sewell's poster about HBWR, and then checked with him about comparable effectiveness of RC, and the evidence that it would probably work seemed pretty compelling. Second, we understood the likelihood of psychedelic effects to be much less than with acid or shrooms. Third, we figured that if RC was a lower-effectiveness busting product, she could always step up to the others later. We chose RC over HBWR because the preparation was extremely simple (HBWR is not), and also because we figured the possible "dud" seeds in 40 or 50 or 60 seeds would compromise the treatment less than one possible dud HWBR seed out of a dosage of 2 or 3. We did have access to reliable sources of both psilo and LSD, so that wasn't an issue. She started with 10 seeds just to see what the effects would be (nausea; tripping; etc.). No effects, of course -- and, really, a busting opportunity wasted, since we then had to wait five days. She subsequently took 30, and one off-schedule, long, severe post-dose hit suggested that it was having an effect. Her symptoms lessened after that post-dose k8-9 doozy, and after 2 more doses of increasing numbers (50, then 60), she was PF. (She drank the sludge, too.) (She also started using RedBull and O2 for the first time during that cycle, and that combination aborted any HAs very quickly.) She never experienced anything but a relaxed feeling, leading to sound sleep, post-dose. She had virtually never taken any of the standard CH meds (somehow just endured two 10-week cycles a year for many years), which might have led to a "clearer" system and more receptivity to the LSA. With all that said, if we were starting again I might be strongly tempted to encourage her to try D3 and licorice root before trying LSA (those apparently-sometimes/somewhat-effective treatments weren't popularized last year). Les Genser says the licorice root is out of your system in a day or two, so you can bust quickly if it's not working, and I haven't seen any evidence that the D3 obstructs busting. So I'm thinking why not go there first? The D3 seems like it might have some long-term preventive effect as well, and so one can just take a sizable amount every day and see what happens.

Thanks for your kind mention, 61mom, and so glad to read of your success. Love your borrowed quote! Although I don't live there any more, my daughter and I enjoyed our happiest years living in Oregon. I'd move back to PDX in a second if it were feasible.

Whenever I've used Jstor it's been possible to email things to myself.

My last words on this subject: (a) then don't tell them; and/or ( find a doctor who is not an imbecile. I guess my only hope is that some day you're going to do this. And my great sadness is that then you'll wonder why you waited so long. Been there, seen that.

Your freakin' doctor ought to be prescribing it, man, instead of just using you as a guinea pig for f-you-up drugs! Good grief! But, yes, you can also set up the whole thing, easily and relatively inexpensively, without a prescription--lots and lots of people do, using welding oxygen as the basis. Please click on this link and read it: http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cb/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1299901790 It tells you why your doc should be prescribing it, and it also tells you how to set it up on your own if your doc is such an ignorant a-hole that s/he won't prescribe it. Or call the one of those Louisiana docs in the OUCH list who's closest to you and get an appointment--I assume that if Clusterheads have recommended them, they know that oxygen is the first thing that should be prescribed. There is practically no one here who won't tell you that oxygen is essential for coping with CH. Plenty of folks here to walk you through the step-by-step of setting up your own, too, if it's not clear from that file. One thing that happens here is that people understand what you're going through, because they've been through it or a loved one has. That also means that we freakin' CARE about what happens to you -- you're in the family, brother. I don't want anyone going through what my daughter went through before she got oxygen. Probably nobody here can really help you regarding the various drug cocktails you're taking, in part because most folks here gave them up a long time ago. But oxygen is a fundamental source of relief for 9 out of 10 people who have tried it, and a combination of oxygen and busting (or oxygen and something else like licorice root and/or vitamin D3) is what has worked for most people here. Maybe the oxygen would give you the space to detox and try busting or licorice root or something that doesn't cause you to spend all day noticing awful symptoms and wondering what life-destroying drug you should take more of or less of.

Glenn, OUCH just fixed the link to its list of headache specialists who are recommended by folks with CH. Here are the five from Louisiana: Baton Rouge: Dr. Steven Zuckerman Covington: Dr. Srinivas Ganji Lafayette: Dr.Steven J. Snatic Metairie: Dr. Daniel J. Trahant New Iberia: Dr. Timothy F. Himel I guess I'm going to give up wondering whether you're using oxygen; and if not, why in the world not. . . . Jerry

Kika, others here are much more knowledgeable than I am. I can say that it's not hard to procure rivea corymbosa seeds. Here's the website of a place in Canada, in addition to the one Fun Guy suggested, that offers them very inexpensively: http://tranceplants.net/ (They're under "Shamanic Herbs" (the search function isn't currently working there).) Preparing RC seeds is also very easy, and when used at the levels commonly taken to deal with CH, I think it's very rare to experience any kind of psychedelic effect at all from RC seeds. I have been corrected by experts when using the word "hallucinogenic," being told in particular that LSA does not create hallucinations. I don't know if this distinction makes a difference for you, but as I said, it would be surprising if you experienced much more than a slight "buzz" from treatment-level doses of RC. It's wise to be prepared, of course -- set and setting. As you have probably read, it's strongly advised to be off all typical CH meds -- to be "detoxed" -- for at least five days before taking any busting materials. For some folks, that's a tough hurdle. There are other things important to know about -- typical "post-dose hits," for example -- but that advice can evolve if you decide to go this route. Although some people, maybe many people, find that LSD or psilocybin are stronger medicine than seeds, I know that many people have achieved very good results with RC. Hawaiian baby woodrose (HBWR) seeds are also effective -- they're just much more of a pain to prepare, and some people find them more psychedelic in their effect. If you were to order RC seeds now, you would probably have them by the time your detox period is over. I believe that RC, and oxygen, probably saved my daughter's life. I know that those things have made it livable. For maximum responses, I think you'd be best off re-starting a thread somewhere more noticeable (not tacked on to this RC seeds thread), like as a new thread at this "General Board."

kika, in order to know about more options, you might also want to read about licorice root treatment (here: http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cb/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1298659068) and about vitamin D3, which you can read some about here http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cb/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1300245052 You should probably look at the long, somewhat complicated thread over at ch.com that is mentioned in Bejeeber's first post there. Licorice root and D3 have been very effective for some people, and they're things you might be able to try even if you decide to go with seeds or another busting method, while you're waiting for busting materials. I say "might be able to try" because some conventional CH pharmaceuticals interfere with the licorice root treatment. I don't think it's clear yet whether they also interfere with the D3 treatment. Let us know (if you wish) more about you and what you are currently doing re CH, so we can be as helpful as possible.

kika, RC seeds are from the rivea corymbosa plant. When ground up and mixed with water they provide LSA, which helps many people with CH. Spores, on the other hand, are the "seeds" from which mushrooms are grown--in this case, psilocybin mushrooms. A good place to read about RC and other seeds is here: http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cb/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1290128974 That's in the "Clusterbuster files" here. There's a lot more very clear information, courtesy of TommyD, in those files. You might also want to read this for an overview: http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cb/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1290127865 I know that RC seeds are sold by companies that operate in Canada, so I presume you can legally buy and hold them. Preparing and drinking them is of course a different matter. Others will know more about Canadian laws in general. There are no PsITA here -- only people looking for something to help them or someone they care about. Ask all the questions you have. My first question always is, Are you using oxygen?

too late.

old? heck, i saw ray charles in '63 and dylan in '64. that's . . . gosh, i forgot what i was going to say . . . hold on a second, it'll come to me . . . wait, where am i? where's the bathroom?Â

Thanks, John.

Thank you, sir. Very much appreciated.

i saw steve miller, miles davis, and neil young on the same bill at fillmore east in 1969(!)

I apologize, Jl. I appreciate your concerns about bar status, and therefore very much appreciate your willingness to participate here at all. As I recall, there was a "church" in the 1960s, referred to as the Boo-Hoos as I recall, that declared the taking of LSD as one of its sacraments. A District Court judge rejected its claim to the religious exemption. Long time ago, but then, I was roughly your age back then. I'll bet if one were to read the case, what one would see is that the judge didn't like this "church" (one of whose tenets had something to do with the need to blow up Saturn before it was too late) or its nasty drug practices (big on marijuana, too), and so he found a way to reject an exemption claim that perhaps should have held up. Just as an additional point, it would seem from what you say (which I don't doubt) that "we" wouldn't actually have to form a "church" at all, but each person could just assert his/her private religious commitment to psilo or acid as part of a religious belief system. Probably get the Boo Hoo outcome either way, though.

Jl, may your CH always be so manageable that you can maintain your legal purity! The seeds are not illegal. Compounding and drinking them is a Schedule III offense. If I joined the CH religion, would I have to give up my current religion, which allows me to drive 95 miles per hour whenever I feel like it? Congratulations on being nearly through the law school ordeal, and good luck with the bar exam!

Thanks for the update John! All information -- especially good news like this -- is much appreciated. And of course it's great that it's worked so well for you. I have three questions. When you say you take 3 D3s at 10AM and 3 with dinner . . . (1) What's the strength of each of the D3s you take (1 IU? 5 IU?)? (2) Do you take your 10AM D3 with food (I've read that one should take them with food, since they're fat soluble)? (3) Are you also taking the cal-mag-citrate that's recommended, or maybe a strong multi vitamin that has those ingredients?

I had meant to give you this link to the OUCH doctors page, so you can check it for an LA doc when it's working properly: http://www.ouch-us.org/chgeneral/doctors.htm You didn't answer my question about oxygen, though. I keep thinking that you're missing an important piece of CH-fighting equipment.