Busting with verapamil

[S Coverly]

Hello fellow hero’s , I’ve been an episodic sufferer for 12 years . May is my worst month, all year I am on maintenance vitamin d3 regimen, 10000 a day , plus cofactors. I have oxygen, which as you know is a life saver . Also prescribed verapamil , question is can I bust with mm while taking verapamil ? Also my headaches are worse throughout the night , can I try to bust before sleeping? And mm busting dose recommendations. Thanx for anyone that can help 

[BoscoPiko]

Hi Coverly,

I have seen some back and forth on this subject with some reporting that they were indeed able to bust while using verap and others not. I think the dosage level has also been brought into this as well with some reporting that lowering the dose prior helped to successfully bust.  I'll look and see if I can find the threads pertaining to this subject when I get home from work if someone doesn't beat me to it.

[BoscoPiko]

Gosh there is so much that comes up on verap and busting that I'm having a hard time finding a helpful thread. @CHfather, @Bejeeber are either of you pros able to assist with this one?

[CHfather]

The general belief here these days, I think, is that verap at 360/day or less surely will not completely block busting, and might not interfere at all.  At 480, it is believed to get more iffy.  Because for a long time verap was an absolute no-no, we don't have a lot of data about all this, but it seems reliable. (Also, of course, CH/busting are not exact sciences to begin with, and also, I think fewer people are using verap, relying on the D regimen to do the preventive job.)

Just a note: It has been recommended by Batch (known here as xxx) to be sure to separate the calcium in the D3 regimen by at least 6 hours from taking verapamil, becuse verap is a calcium channel blocker.

Sure, you can bust before sleeping. I'll leave it to the greater experts to comment on the practicalities of this. 

MM dose recommendation these days is typically 1 - 1.5 grams of dried shrooms.  The key issue is to be sure you get enough, since there is no real way to tell whether that has happened (slapbacks suggest that you got enough, and a light trip or a more serious trip also indicate that you got enough).  If you're comfortable with MM tripping, I think most people would suggest that you start toward the higher end of the range.  If you're not comfortable with tripping, you can either just do it anyway (with safeguards making a good trip more likely -- set and setting, and maybe some kind of sedating medication), or you can start lower.  I keep harping on the fact that in the early days, this was the recommendation: "the range for a cubensis dose will be from about 0.5 grams to 1.5 grams. With more powerful species such as Psilocybe azurescens or Psilocybe cyanescens, a quarter or half a gram will be enough." (https://clusterbusters.org/forums/topic/683-4-the-psilocybin-mushroom/)  Those pioneers were not making this stuff up, but unlike today, they were more concerned with minimizing tripping (and the early research articles invariably referred to a "subhallucinogenic" dose as being sufficient).  I think today's recommendations are higher for the reason I stated -- being sure you got enough so you don't "waste" a dose, with less concern about whether or not there's a trip.  But the trip is not therapeutic; it's a side effect of the therapy.  That's why I favor RC seeds.

You can read more about busting protocol (and RC) by clicking on "New Users -- Please Read Here First" within the blue banner near the top of each page.

 

 

 

[FunTimes]

When doing the study at Yale I was told not to change my Verap dose, it was about 360 at the time. If they are not asking to discontinue use I would guess that at least up to 360 a day would not interfere with busting. I have taken MM, seeds ad L all at the same time as my daily Verapamil and have definitely felt positive effects of the alternate meds. I am chronic and have yet to successfully bust out of a "cycle" totally but I do no that dosing when things get bad has helped me get to the next day