Research on new tryptamine option

[Lieutenant2]

Excellent, thanks for the info! You do seem to have one of those CH cases that is "morphing", with later starts and longer cycles. It will be interesting to see how you react long-term to this (or any other busting option).

It sounds like you have a reputable supplier, from what I was able to see online. I guess the only thing that concerns me is the lack of effects. At a dose of 15mg-20mg, you should definitely "feel" something, if only a little bit buzzed. Your description of the powder and taste are spot-on, though.

And yes, I heard that the UK government is about to crack down on this (lumping it in with a whole bunch of other substances, like the 2C phenethylamines). I guess it's just a factor of paranoid public policy, and guilt by association. I can't imagine anybody using this as a recreational drug, it just wouldn't be any fun. And to the best of my knowledge, the only death attributed to it was a guy who got hit by a truck while he was on it (and he was also drunk. Go figure!)

As far as shelf-life, it should be several years. I would consider keeping it in an airtight container in the freezer, at the very least keep it away from any moisture.

Good luck, and thanks for keeping us updated!

[par]

So, no pain free nights since taking 5 days back, but only light wake ups with ghosts, so not too bad. Upping to 25mg, tonight to see what's what, if no difference, then I'll probably go back to mm in 5 days and start blasting that a little higher.

Although I suppose light ghosts might be post episode maybe - might cold turkey to see if CH returns! Is it possible that my busting is driving these small ones itself?

[par]

25 mg - definitely felt a bit effected on that.

1 ghost in first night and then 2 days/nights PF.

Have even had a cheeky glass of vino

Very very happy, long may it last.

[Lieutenant2]

Hello Par,

Again, thank you for keeping me/us updated on your experiment! Interesting to see that you're getting some pain-free time, I always consider that a good thing no matter what is causing it!

It's really hard to tell what might be happening, you're 5 months into what is normally a 3-month cycle, so it's possible that your cycle is just ending. Or it's possible that your cycles are getting longer as time goes on, that was the case with one of the participants in the study. There is a possibility that the use of 5-MeO-DALT is triggering some of those shadows you've been having, I know people talk a lot about "slap-back" headaches, and they tend to take different forms in different people.

Something else I wanted to ask. . .are your attacks random throughout the day, or mostly nocturnal? There is definitely a difference between the "randoms" and the "nocturnal-only" CH types when it comes to effectiveness of serotonergics.

Hope things continue to get better for you!

[par]

I did in previous cycles suffer throughout the day, even more so before I got my GP to give me O2.

But this time, maybe due to MM and DALT, they have stayed away apart from an odd morning or early evening low pain attack. Nocturnal wake ups have been hard to kick. Not too sure that MM managed any more than a few extended PF hours overnight. When I talk about ghost, I mean, the nasal congestion is there, the eye is starting to ache and a throb in the jaw/teeth is just noticeable. When I hit this with O2, it all goes quite quickly 2-10 mins. Waking in the night, it varies in intensity, can be good can be really bad - but all have been knocked away by O2 quickly enough, once I have been woken.

Possibly, it is end of cycle, will know in a few days or so. Hopefully, I have found a combination of treatments which will allow me to manage the cycles better next time when they return.

Of your patients, out of interest, did you get them to get a Vitamin D3 reading ? Mine was down to about 30, but GP's just said - its uk - D3 is all over the place in this country.!!

With, MM, I pretty much felt a few slap-backs, and found them more intense than the clusters I was trying to abort, the ghost from DALT ( if that is the cause ) - was negligible in comparison. I think DALT at 25mg will be my first port of call next time.

[Lieutenant2]

Good stuff, I really appreciate the info! I definitely understand the "ghost" language you're speaking. I was always in the habit of calling those "shadows", the pressure is there and you feel it coming, but the pain never really hits. But it's enough to wake you up. One of the big problems with CH, too. . .we need sleep for our brains to recover and kick the CH, but the CH prevents sleep. Ugly cycle sometimes!

As for the whole D3 thing, I can only say that no 25(OH)D readings were taken. Partially because the study was only restricted to the tryptamine, and no other line of treatment. I will also admit to my personal bias here, I feel the "success rate" for the D3 thing is severely over-reported, especially in chronic cases. I have my own theories about this, but I'll leave it alone.

Hoping your cycle has come to an end! Storing your 5-MeO-DALT in an airtight container in a dark,cool place should keep it potent for years, let's hope you don't need it any time soon!

[par]

7 days/nights PF now, sleeping through; feeling good. Seems 25mg 5-MeO-DALT, may have been my thing. May only know if it was just an end of cycle coincidence or the real deal if it comes back, or in 2 years.

Thanks all who have supported

[Lieutenant2]

Hey Par. . .any way you look at it, that is good news! I appreciate you keeping all of us updated on your experience with the 5-MeO-DALT. There are currently a few other people trialing it (unofficially), and the people who are having great success are episodics and patients with only a single diagnosis of cluster headache. One patient I know of is having only limited success, but is a multi-headache diagnosis (migraine, NDPH, etc.)

[CHfather]

There are currently a few other people trialing it . . . 

Lt2, since it's legal to buy and possess 5-MeO-DALT, I don't feel uncomfortable asking this, though you might not feel comfortable answering it.

par says s/he bought the stuff here: https://www.brc-finechemicals.com/5-meo-dalt.html  But that site seems only to ship within Europe.  Are you willing/able to say where the testers you mention got theirs?

[par]

So, 3 wakes last night with o2 required. But hey - 10 days PF, will be repeat dosing tonight. 25mg again or lower do you think Lt2?

CHF - I did see on some other site, via Mr Google, that they would post - at your own risk to USA, but cannot find it again. But it is out there somewhere.

[Lieutenant2]

Damn, that was bad timing Par. Sorry to hear that! I would suggest re-dosing every five days until you are absolutely sure you are clear. With refractory cases, you're probably looking at 4-5 consecutive doses at five days apart. As for the amount, I've always thought 15mg to be the "right" amount, going much higher shouldn't make a difference. . .however. . .you went to 25mg and tolerated it well, so you might want to stick with your 25mg dose tonight. Some of us just have more or less sensitive receptors than others when it comes to tryptamines.

CHfather, being totally honest with you, I don't know where these additional people sourced their 5-MeO-DALT. I do know that one of them is in Europe, where it is a bit easier. Several places will ship to the US, but there's always the risk that the package won't get through Customs. This is actually a low risk, though. Customs generally doesn't bother with a few grams of anything, unless they have reason to flag it. It really is unfortunate that we have to go through semi-shady channels to get something that hasn't even been declared "illegal". In my opinion, the best way to find a reliable vendor is through reputation, reading feedback on places like Reddit. They have a ton of sub-forums dedicated to research chemicals. I have talked to a chemist friend about producing it in a home lab, and she said it wouldn't be difficult, there would just be a huge up-front cost for equipment.

[Tony Only]

It's completely illegal here in Finland (in Europe). But for me that's not an issue, if there is a magic bullet for my CH am ready to even relocate. It seems that anything which ends up on the illegal list here will stay there no matter should potential medicinal uses be revealed later on. I am eyeing this thread with huge interest for other possible experiences with this. Thanks for posts everyone.

[par]

Summary: My Journey This Cycle:

3/4 months of MM, O2 and mainly mild CH's throughout. The odd PF day/night - but not often.

..

..

5 days after ineffective MM:

10-15mg MEO - PF: not first day, but PF second day and just a ghost on 3rd, then multiple reduced pain/ghost the others - no different to MM.

5 days later

15-20mg MEO - PF: none, reduced pain - mainly ghosts - easily managed.

5 days later

20-25mg MEO - PF: 10, then 3 nighttime mild CH's

20-25mg MEO - PF: 2 and counting

==

So MM for me reduces the pain for a few days before needing to re-take.

It generally had me shaking, sweating and HOT when taking an effective dose - with a good slapback to boot. Not that pleasant to take, worst was when I chomped on the raw MM in desperation - gag city!

MEO - on 25mg , a little bit shakey and a little bit HOT - no slapbacks that I can tell of.

Sensation not unpleasant - but not tripping fantastic. From the start, reduced pain like MM - and then PF when I hit the bigger dose.

[tangerinearmy]

gonna try this

do you wait to go in cycle or do you take to try and stop a cycle.

could you take a hit every 5 days for life (if it worked) or would that be stupid.

i have booked a family holiday from uk to orlando next may im panicking already about getting ch whilst there which would be awful  any suggestions

[tangerinearmy]

ordered

would love to know if you could use this or any other busting methods as a complete preventative

ie take a dose every 5 days for life

[Lieutenant2]

Par, as always, happy to hear the good news!

Tangerine. . .only speaking anecdotally here, and based on the experiences of other episodics who use tryptamines. But as an episodic, there is no benefit to using tryptamines when out of cycle. In fact, it could prove detrimental due to tolerance issues. But you don't need to wait until you're in cycle, either. If you know exactly when your cycle is going to start, you can start taking weekly doses a couple weeks in advance and most likely skip your cycle. If your cycles are irregular, you should start dosing at the first signs of trouble.

And as we see with Par's case, playing with the dosage and timing may be necessary. I do see that as the one advantage of this chemical, you have control over the dosage. Par knows he took 25mg of tryptamine. Whereas, with mushrooms, it doesn't matter how carefully you weigh your material, you will never know how much psilocybin you are getting, nor do we know what all those other chemicals might do.

[par]

The only thing is:

Just had 2 days PF as previously stated, unfortunately the "and counting" must have laid some bad omens and - BANG - 2 days pain including day pain - quite sever.

So - ouch - Hit myself with 25mg 1 day early to see what might occur ( no taking effects, and no change to pain in the night or following day).

Took another 25mg the following night, (noticeable drug effects whilst taking this time - possibly door closed the previous night ??? not sure ) - but still had some pain that (last) night.

Have felt a little better during today - so hoping for a better result tonight. But currently the Jury is out.

- If it doesn't desist, then I might find myself MM'ing again in 5 days time.

[Lieutenant2]

Geez, Par. . .I'm just going to keep my mouth shut. I think I destroy your PF time every time I post something!

If you don't mind me asking, have you had any history of being somewhat resistant to psychedelics? Example, when you were using MM, did you find that you didn't feel any effects at the same dosages that other people did? Or that you needed to use more to get the same effects? Just curious.

[tangerinearmy]

so even tho par had 10 pf nights why would he not of dosed again on day 5 or is that defeating the object

it just seems silly waiting to get another attack or is the idea to only use the least amount possible

[par]

With MM, didn't really get into PF only mellowed pain, nighttime only. Only took a small amount as well about 0.8-1.5g

I found the effect of taking was quite trippy. Serious shakes, heat and not nice feeling.

Re 10 days. Both test cases went 18 days, the mild CH knocked away with repeat doses. I wanted to see if it was a single dose miracle cure for me.

Guess not!!

[Lieutenant2]

Thanks Par. . .and good question, Tangerine! I've been guilty of the same. I have personally experimented with at least five things that stopped my CH attacks, at least temporarily. Each time, I intentionally let the CH return because I needed to find out if it was effective, placebo effect, fluke, etc. Some of us are just natural tinkerers, I guess.

[Lieutenant2]

Hey Par, any updates for us? It's been a week, just curious as to how you're doing and how you may have adjusted your dosing schedule.

I just returned from Nashville where I spent some time talking to one very intractable chronic who has been dosing with this at 5-day intervals. He hasn't had a PF day in 18 months, but he's been getting 2-3 days of relief between doses now. It's not perfect, but every day off is a great thing for a chronic.

[par]

Pretty losey following that last dose 25mg maybe hitting it a day early killed the effectiveness of the following dose, with a sever session fri and sat(day 4&5). Pretty much on and off oxygen for 48 hours with what felt like sever bruising.

However, dosed 27mg sat night. Sat night still up with pain, Sunday ghosting all day, Sunday night and today PF. Whoopish we will see.

[par]

I am also going to do 5 days rota and see. About 2-3 days PF in 5dayz rota might be about right. Also current weather highs and lows are all over the place here at the moment, am pretty sure this had some effect. Maybe my last bad 48 hours was a migraine mash up !! Such Fun!!!!

[Lieutenant2]

Thanks, Par. I hope you don't mind me asking questions in a public forum, I just think some people might be interested in reading about your experience, and it might help them.

Another question if I may, do you take any other medications/supplements not related to CH? I know you mentioned some vitamin D3, I'm just wondering about any thing like melatonin, or anything to help you sleep? Anything for digestive issues, or nausea, like zofran or anything?

Also, on days like Friday and Saturday when you're getting attacks, do you experience any digestive problems? Upset stomach, constipation, things like that?

There are two variables I'm curious about here. Since this stuff is most likely absorbed in the stomach (~10min onset makes that pretty obvious), do we all possess the same ability to absorb it, or do some of us not absorb it as well? Second, I wonder about the affinity for serotonin receptors this drug has. The last work done on this was in 1989 with a group of 13 psychedelics, obviously not including this one because it hadn't been formulated yet. There seemed to be a flat curve with LSD having the highest affinity, and psilocybin somewhere in the middle. If this falls closer to one end or the other, it could explain why some people benefit and some don't, just like those other compounds.

Sorry for getting geeky there.