Massage questions

[astrochimp32]

Hello,

I am in school to become a Licensed Massage Therapist (LMT) and for my pathology class I chose to do a research paper and presentation on Cluster Headache. I first became interested in CH when I was reading about MAPS research on psychedelics for various conditions, and found that psilocybin and LSD were shown to be efficacious for some sufferers of CH.

I myself do not suffer from CH, but I would like to increase awareness of this condition. I would like to get feedback from all of you on some questions about massage and CH, so my report is accurate as possible.

It's my understanding that massage isn't going to really prevent or treat CH, but can help with other issues related to it- like depression, anxiety, chronic tension in neck, shoulder, jaw, etc. Is this people's experience? Does anyone have experience with craniosacral therapy?

Is there anything you would want an LMT to know if you were going in for a massage? Could aromas in aromatherapy be triggers like with migraines? Could certain trigger points cause a CH?

As I understand, most people with CH would generally know when they would be getting CHs, although certain things like alcohol can trigger them. Would it be possible to have an attack while receiving a massage? How would you want an LMT to respond - just give you space?

I appreciate anyone who takes the time to respond- I'm really glad you have this awesome resource that is Clusterbusters!

[Bejeeber]

Hi A-Chimp!

Thanks for checking in about this subject here.

I don't have experience with licensed massage therapy, but I know some others here do, and hopefully they'll see this and respond.

I can just tell you that I have a pressure point or something on top of the eyeball on the affected side that when I press with a fingertip (thru the eyelid) I can feel a distinct nerve pathway - I bet everyone could feel it on this spot. ANYHOO I've been known to knock down CH shadows  for a short time by pressing on it (in a vibrating reflexology kinda way, not sure if that's necessary though). It feels damn creepy, kind of like an "itchy" nerve, but it works for me.

I think I may have tried it with an oncoming genuine whopper of a CH attack at one point, but gave up on it and went for other abortives. Thanks to busting, etc. I haven't had the "opportunity" to test it with anything more than a shadow since. I hope I never do have that opportunity again. 

[didgens]

Jeebs .. an you describe in a little more detail where you press please ? thanks

[Bejeeber]

I point my eyes dowward as if I'm looking down, then press at the top center of the 'ol eyeball. Well the top, but maybe not the exact center, a little off to the side towards the ear on that side of the head.

For me, it's a matter of just pressing around in that region until BINGO, nerve hit. Takes about 1 second to find, it's a pretty big and easy to find target for me. See how long you can stand pressing it. Let's all try it. C'mon it's a fun and wholesome activity for the whole family to enjoy! 

Hey I just tried it again and I think the reason I vibrate the fingertip is that it's the only way I can keep the nerve continuously lit up, otherwise it's just a quick twinge, then gone when pressing. I call this spot a nerve, but I'm willfully ignorant about physiology and stuff, so I don't really know if that's what it is...

And my next experiment just revealed that on the non CH side of my head the nerve spot is more towards the center of the head, so I suppose this could be variable from individual to individual.

PLUS I've found that after a certain amount of activating this nerve the pain/creepy itching associated with doing this can go away, not to be easily re-activated, and that can be the point for me where the shadow also shuts off. This shutting off tends to be temporary, doesn't necessarily last as long as an hour.

End of rant on the Jeebs Jibulator ^tm shadow squashing procedure. For now. 

[didgens]

ok so you know you had me at my desk pressing on my eyeball ,, and I did find a sensitive spot there toward the upper outer portion.  I will see if my son has tried this .. thanks  (at least no one was walking by my office .. lol)

[didgens]

maybe you're stimulating the top portion of the occulomotor nerve ? does the picture look right ?

[Bejeeber]

Yeah, since it has some branching piece of spaghetti that looks like it goes over the top of the eyeball, that does look to me like it could be it.

Good find, Didge.  8-)

[side note: my CH, including shadows, has been very mid trigeminal focused - right behind the eyeball, sometimes radiating down to upper teeth. I didn't even know the temple/upper trigeminal could be so heavily involved in a CH attack until I read about the experiences of others with it here.]

[Tony Only]

Here in Finland my neurologists prohibited any kind of massaging during cycle. For other reasons stopped listening to them and even going to neurologists appointments back when I was chronic. So went to massage (physiotherapy) anyway dispite of told not to. For me it was a huge relief and help because at chronic state attacks came steadily every few hours and did a carnage on my back, neck and shoulder area and physiotherapy helped me big time. Ever since I have tried to get a word out here how crucial it is to unwind the "chaos" of the body, the muscles and the nerves with physiotherapy / massage to other patients. Yes it may trigger an attack but it will help to cope in the long run. I did a lot of stretching at home with directions from my physioterapist and eventually found yoga which helped me even further.

After I finally became PF with psychedelics, whenever the "shadows" or attacks try to return there's always an involvement from neck-shoulder-back area, the muscles and the nerves and for me these are the first signs of trouble on my case. For years I thought it was continuos attacks, the muscle tension and the stress of what's to come to be the only cause of physical problems, now I know at least on my case that they are CH connected in some other way as well.

[weatherman]

I have found that Moxie's recommendation for massage techniques do work for me.  Especially the "thumbs on the bridge of the nose" tactic.

Moxie's post (from nearly a year ago) says in part .....

Pressure Points

1. Place your thumbs on either side of the bridge of your nose at the base where it joins your forehead.

2. Squeeze the bridge of your nose by pushing your thumbs towards each other. Apply firm pressure. Hold for ten seconds release and repeat x5.

Keep your thumbs in the same place on but rotate so the pads of your thumbs face up towards your forehead. Press upwards with your thumbs, hold for 10 seconds, release and repeat 5 times.

I don't know how or why but it sure works well when using O2.

I signed up for professional massages (Massage Envy) after reading Moxie's suggestions, hoping for further help in conquering CH.   They offered Cranial Sacral Therapy and wanted to try that too.  Neither worked for me .. bummer.

Thankfully, standard massage has never triggered an attack. 

weatherman 8-)

[didgens]

thanks all .. more to digest !

[didgens]

heres a different picture ..

[didgens]

so pushing on the nose would compact the supratrochlear nerve (if I even spelled that right) as well as the infratrochlear and pushing on the top of the eyeball would compact the supra orbital .. all looks like they lead back to the fifth nerve ?

[didgens]

oops sorry the above picture is  Diagram of the ophthalmic division of the trigeminal nerve (fifth). This is a view of the right eye from above (c.b.z, communicating branch to the zygomatic nerve). Note: the ciliary ganglion is usually situated lateral to the optic nerve

[didgens]

so are CH's just different versions of the same thing ?

Definition

Trigeminal neuralgia (TN) is a disorder of the trigeminal nerve (fifth cranial nerve) that causes severe, shooting pain along one side of the face. The trigeminal nerve senses touch, pain, pressure, and temperature. It also helps make saliva and tears.

The Trigeminal Nerve

Nuclus factsheet image

Copyright © Nucleus Medical Media, Inc.

In TN, pain usually lasts for less than a second to a few seconds and may come and go for days, weeks, months, or years. It may go into remission or stop completely for months or years. Over time, though, the attacks may become more frequent and more severe.

Causes

In most cases, the cause is unknown. In some cases it may be caused by an abnormally formed artery or vein near the nerve. The blood vessel can compress the nerve and cause problems. Rarely, TN may occur as a symptom of another underlying disorder, such as:

Tumor in the brain or head

Multiple sclerosis

Shingles

Risk

TN is more common in women aged 50 years or older. Having certain medical conditions, such as multiple sclerosis, or high blood pressure may increase your risk of TN.

Symptoms

The main symptom is searing pain on one side of the face. The pain may be felt inside the mouth or in the lips, cheek, chin, nostril, ear, or near the eye. Rarely, pain may occur in the eye or forehead. Twitching or wincing sometimes accompanies the pain.

The pain is typically sudden, severe, and stabbing. Even though the pain is brief, usually less than two minutes, it can reoccur hundreds of times a day. Attacks can become totally disabling. They may seem to occur at random or be triggered by extremes of temperature, washing, shaving, touching, or tickling the face. There are usually no symptoms between attacks, except perhaps a dull ache.

[didgens]

hmmm .. hmmm hmmm hmmmm 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16202528

[Fabalicious]

Hi Astro!  My sister is a LMT, and she gives me the hook up quite frequently.  Speaking for myself, you are correct in saying that the massage does not prevent or lessen the pain of the CH...BUT, it SURE does help ease the aches and pains in between the attacks.  During the attacks, it seems like every single muscle in the upper body is contracted and tensed up.  My sisters theory is that I am unconsciously bracing against the pain, even when I try to relax, during an attack theres really nothing you can do but get through it. But after the attack is over, especially after having 3-4 a day for months at a time, it sure does ease the tension.  I have never noticed a difference in the intensity or frequency of the CH before and after.  I just view it as a wonderful little gift for both the soul and for all the nerves and muscles that are NOT causing me a world of hurt.

[didgens]

Thanks Fabac,, my son always asks for neck and shoulder massages from me during this time.  on a side note I have had to have both of my hips replaced, before I went I was in so much pain on the right side that I had a marble sized knot right in the arch of my foot from the siatic nerve pain that ran down my entire leg into my foot. so this makes sense to me.

[MoxieGirl]

Hi Astro,

Welcome to the community, glad you're here.

I am a qualified Holistic Massage Therapist here in the UK, which I imagine is pretty close to a LMT Stateside (assuming you are in the States).

I suffer with: Daily Chronic Headaches, hereditary migraines and of course cluster headaches.

On average, I have a headache 4 days out of 7. Psychedelics have not helped my headaches at all. Massage has some, and even on rare occasions stopped a headache, at least for an hour or two.

My migraines can range from 3 a year to 40+ a year. It is thanks to psychedelics that I rarely have more than 10 or 12 a year any more. For me, stress is a MAJOR migraine trigger, as well as lack of sleep. Massage is fantastic for reducing my stress and improving my sleep. Three or four years ago I went to a massage therapist regularly while in a very stressful part of a project. That is what prompted me to study massage myself and get qualified.

Clusters are an entirely different ball game. I'm chronic, which means my attacks come pretty non-stop all year round for 8 years now. About the longest cluster free gap I've had is around 23 days. I can have between 1 and 5 attacks a week, although before using mushrooms that number was easily 15-20 or more a week.

I found some of the massage techniques helpful with clusters, while the same techniques are unbearable with migraines or headaches. As Weatherman mentioned above, the thumbs pressed into the underside of the brow line is wonderful for relieving the pressure of a cluster, but absolute agony with a migraine.

I did notice a massive drop in daily headaches, migraines and clusters during my months of training, especially following the weekends we were gathered for the course and I had received 4 or massages that weekend. I also find giving massages also works wonders, as when done right giving a massage is nearly as therapeutic as receiving one.

For the record, I don't always know when I'm about to get a cluster. Only about 20% of the time do I have a shadow or headache before the cluster attack. Sometimes I'll have a headache lasting up to 2 hours before a vicious attack, after which all pain will leave. But normally I get hit out of the blue, as if someone stepped around a corner and punched me in the face without warning. No, correct that. They are more like someone stepped around the corner and hit me in the eye with a baseball bat without warning. The vast majority of my clusters come on that suddenly and that forcefully.

It is also worth noting, that although high stress can trigger migraines, low stress can trigger clusters. Many cluster heads find they get attacked when going on holiday or taking the long weekend away from work. Clusters are notorious for striking after someone has gone to sleep - when they are relaxed.

I spend my life carefully balancing my stress levels. Too much is bad, too little is bad. Massage can help maintain that balance, or if I'm not careful, throw it out of whack.

Hope you're enjoying your course.

Moxie