CHfather

Hmmm. I thought I posted a long message last night in response to this, but it seems not to be here. The shorter version is that it depends on what shipping method you chose, and the rough timeframes for delivery are listed at their website, here: https://tranceplants.net/consumer.php. So if you chose the slowest version, it might not be until next week that you get them. Here's hoping that it happens sooner than that. Please check back with us before you take them, unless you feel completely confident that you'll be doing it right. Best wishes for a successful bust.

Donnie, here's the info about the D3: https://www.clusterheadaches.com/cb/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1314134804 When you see your doc next week, ask about getting your vitamin D level tested. It's part of a standard blood panel, I think. As you can see from the link, a lot of people get a lot of relief when they get their D levels up (and most people have very low D levels). I guess I just have one question about the seeds. Did you soak them for much longer than an hour or 90 minutes? That's all you need (you probably already know this, but I want to be sure). I remember that a person or maybe a couple of people who soaked them for considerably longer times had more stomach upset. Wish I had more for you. Have you thought about growing shrooms???

 You should look over the numbered files in the "ClusterBuster Files" section of this board, particularly #s 1, 3, 5, and 6. Here's a link to #5, which is about LSA: https://www.clusterheadaches.com/cb/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1290128974 If you decide to proceed in this direction, check back for specifics. If you're thinking about buying some RC seeds just to have them, a lot of people here feel good about these vendors: www.iamshaman.com; www.tranceplants.net; www.psychoactiveherbs.com. I'm not sure which would have fast delivery options.

Asleep at the switch here again . . . Couple of things to add to Jeebs's good advice. Are you staying on the O2 after an attack has been aborted? That's been found to prevent or lessen the severity of a possible next attack. Stay on for 5-10 minutes. Try an energy drink or energy shot just before the O2. Shot is easier to get down quickly, and just as good (6 Hour Power, 5 Hour Energy, Monster Hitman Sniper). Helps a lot of the time, though not as much if you're awakened by one that's already pretty far along; somehow typically does not keep people awake (although that Hitman Sniper, which has a ton of caffeine, might, I suppose). Some people find that a substantial dose of melatonin before bed helps with the nighttime attacks. You could consider starting with 6-9 mg. and add 3 mg. per night until you've found what helps. In cycle, some people are up above 20 mg. (Some folks have found that the chewable type, which often comes in much smaller doses -- Trader Joe's version is .5 mg -- works faster and better. Of course, you wouldn't take as much.) I'm gathering that because your previous cycles have been pretty short and manageable, you don't have meds beyond O2. If you're going the conventional meds route, you'd want injectable imitrex, I would think. Jeebs is of course right about busting, particularly if you're now only using O2. You can get some supplies (RC seeds) overnighted to you and start using them, as Jeebs likes to say, toot sweet. If you're anywhere near a store that sells homeopathic stuff and you meet the medical conditions, you could try the licorice root protocol. Basics here: https://www.clusterheadaches.com/cb/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1298659068. And there's also probably no reason not to try the D3 regimen described here: https://www.clusterheadaches.com/cb/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1314134804

No new information here (at least as far as I can tell from the abstract), but the report is new, so I figured I'd post it. http://cep.sagepub.com/content/early/2014/04/10/0333102414529672.abstract Purpose Our aim was to review the existing literature to document oxygen’s therapeutic effect on cluster headache. Method A PubMed search resulted in 28 hits, and from these and their references we found in total 11 relevant studies. We included six studies that investigated the efficacy of oxygen treatment. One study is observational and the remaining five are RCTs. Another five studies were on hyperbaric oxygen treatment hereof two case studies. Conclusion Oxygen therapy can be administered at different flow rates. Three studies investigate the effect of low-flow oxygen, 6–7[ch8201]l/min, and found a positive response in 56%, 75% and 82%, respectively, of the patients. One study investigates high-flow oxygen, 12[ch8201]l/min, and found efficacy in 78% of attacks. The effect of hyperbaric oxygen therapy has been investigated in a few small studies and there is evidence only for an acute, but not a prophylactic effect. Despite the fact that only a few high-quality RCT studies are available, oxygen treatment is close to an ideal treatment because it is effective and safe. However, sufferers of cluster headache do not always have access to oxygen because of logistic and financial concerns.

I can't help asking -- Is Dr. M hoping for BOL in the near future on the basis of some new information, or is he just "hoping" like the rest of us? I have to admit that I have always understood that before the regulations and red tape, funding was what was holding back Entheogen (and from Dr. Halpern's presentation at the last conference, I felt very pessimistic about that). If there's any reason for optimism (as opposed to hope), I'd be thrilled to hear it.

Thanks -- again -- BHD!

Donnie, I am very sorry to read this (glad the O2 is helping, but not happy about anything else). If the RC didn't make you sick, would you consider going back to it, maybe at higher doses? If so, would you tell me/us how it was making you sick? Stomach upset? Nausea? Maybe there are some ideas that could help you -- if you feel like trying it again. Do energy drinks help at all? Melatonin at night? Are you doing D3? Just trying to think of relatively affordable things you might do.

Tom, I suspect the energy drinks/shots work better than coffee (for most people) in part because they generally have more caffeine than a cup of coffee. But since RedBull works for a lot of people and doesn't have more caffeine than a strong cup of coffee, we figure it also has something to do with the additional ingredients, particularly the taurine. (Someone here took coffee and powdered taurine and got good results.) But why the taurine helps -- if it is the taurine -- I don't know. I don't remember anyone offering a theory or explanation for that. As for your O2, the suggestions we've made elsewhere -- O2ptimask and higher-flow regulator -- might reduce wear and tear on your carpet. An in-between step is to replace the bag on your current mask with a turkey roasting bag or a small unscented garbage bag. And here's something recommended by the doctor who first tested the effectiveness of O2 -- look down toward your feet as you're breathing the O2. Some folks have found that to help. And, after a deep inhale, hold the O2 in your lungs for a few more moments before you exhale. Hyperventilating helps, too. As we've suggested, check out the CB Oxygen page under the MENU tab on the left side of the page for more info.  If you get a welding regulator (since you mention in another post that you got your O2 at a welding supply place), you can set it at pretty much any "lpm" you need (it doesn't have an lpm setting, but it goes plenty high). With most welding regulators, you'll want an adapter for the tubing to your mask. The regulators they sell at Harbor Freight typically come with that adapter; most of the ones sold at welding supply places don't have it, but you can usually get one at a hardware store, or online, for about a buck.

Conference is 9/18-21. https://www.clusterheadaches.com/cb/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1388435925

Lisa, might as well cover all the bases here -- What does he have for O2 tanks? Most people like to have a couple of big tanks ("M" tanks) at home and a couple of smaller, more portable ones (E tanks) for the car/work, etc. Idaho, eh? Is that the same thing as Montana?  :-?  We have a bunch of CH heroes in Montana. He/you two should get to this year's CB conference if you can. Nashville's a long trip for you -- but it's a great experience.

Lisa, Just a note that your doctor is not completely nuts: cyproheptadine has been prescribed for CH, and some people even found that it helped. At one CB conference some years back, a doctor from the Diamond Clinic, which has quite a few CH patients, described it as an effective preventive, and the Robbins Clinic also lists it as something to try, as does the New York Times. I am sure that Dr Ty is right in all that he says: that there are no formal studies; that it's another CH "hand-me-down" from migraine treatment; and (most importantly) that it might interfere with the triptans -- but it's not in itself a completely crazy thing to try. Since Tom's had CH for 20 years, maybe he's been through a lot of possible treatments? I hope maybe he'll consider what Jeebs says just above here, and also some of what I have suggested up above.

No idea what this means, how/why it matters. Altered white matter microstructural connectivity in cluster headaches: A longitudinal diffusion tensor imaging study; Chou K, Yang F, Fuh J, Huang C, Lirng J, Lin Y, Lee P, Kao H, Lin C, Wang S; Cephalalgia (Mar 2014) Â Â BACKGROUND Functional and structural disruptions to the pain matrix, which may involve changes in white matter (WM) pathways connecting the pain-processing system and hypothalamus, have been implicated in the pathophysiology of cluster headache (CH). However, previous studies have obtained inconclusive results regarding WM changes in CH, and WM variations between'in-bout'and'out-of-bout'periods of CH remain to be determined. METHODS Multiple diffusivity indices obtained by diffusion tensor imaging (DTI) and post-hoc probabilistic tractography were used to elucidate CH pathophysiology. RESULTS Compared to healthy participants, in-bout CH patients showed regionally higher absolute (radial and mean) diffusivities in the left medial frontal gyrus and frontal sub-gyrus and lower absolute (axial, radial and mean) diffusivities in the right parahippocampal gyrus of the limbic lobe. These changes during the in-bout period generally persisted in the out-of-bout period, except for the left cerebellar tonsil. Post-hoc probabilistic tractography showed highly consistent anatomical connections between these altered areas and the hypothalamus across participants. CONCLUSIONS Distinct WM changes were observed in episodic CH. Connections between the pain-modulation areas and hypothalamus may be involved in CH pathophysiology. http://www.docguide.com/altered-white-matter-microstructural-connectivity-cluster-headaches-longitudinal-diffusion-tensor-im?tsid=5

Lisa, I'm not a doctor, and we have a couple of actual physicians who visit this board, and I will defer to them here. And if all this works for Tom, then who am I to say? But a few observations: ranitidine (Zantac) is used mostly to treat GERD (it's an H2 blocker, not a beta blocker). I have to say that I have never seen it prescribed for CH (which doesn't mean it never has been, or that it isn't effective). Periactin isn't a beta blocker, either (I'm pretty sure). It's confusing to me why it would help, although I've seen it listed as a kind of if-nothing-else-works treatment for CH. Yes, the "heavy pain killers" generally do not help, and can make matters worse. It's hard for me to think of why a doctor familiar with CH would prescribe them. Verapamil, yes, it's often used, and imitrex shots are very widely used. Beta blockers, such as propranalol, are sometimes prescribed, but I have no idea of the wisdom of prescribing them in addition to verapamil, since they both affect blood pressure. It just seems like a strange cocktail to me -- again, I'm no doctor, and I could be wildly wrong. If you have any doubts about Tom's doctor, there is a list here -- https://clusterbusters.org/?page_id=455 -- of docs (in the US and Canada) recommended by folks with CH, in case you might want to look into one near you.

Lisa/Tom, some things to consider: Try downing an energy drink or energy shot at the first sign of an attack (or a strong cup of coffee, although some people think the taurine in the energy drinks/shots is helpful). Basically, the more caffeine in the drink/shot, the better. This can abort an attack, or reduce its severity. While waiting for the meds would be an ideal time to try busting (taking psychedelics, often at subhallucinogenic levels -- it's what this site is primarily about, although we're happy to help with more conventional things). It could also be a good time to give the licorice root protocol a try: https://www.clusterheadaches.com/cb/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1298659068    (You can read more about busting in the "ClusterBuster Files" section of this board. Here's the first file: https://www.clusterheadaches.com/cb/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1290127865) I guess we'd be curious to know what meds Tom is planning to go back on. Has Tom tried the "vitamin D3" protocol that has helped a lot of people? https://www.clusterheadaches.com/cb/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1314134804 He can almost certainly -- very certainly -- get faster aborts with an O2 system using the mask made for people with CH -- http://www.clusterheadaches.com/khxc -- and a higher-flow-rate regulator (25 lpm or more). Read more about O2 at the CB Oxygen Page under the black and white MENU tab on the left side of this page.

Welcome, Lisa. What's he doing now for his CH? What has he tried?

Many people do okay with busting while still taking verapamil. By "okay," I mean some seem to bust fully, but most get some relief but not complete relief. No one seems to have had any trouble with a conflict between D3 and busting. (I'm guessing you're familiar with Batch's caution about the possible interactions between the calcium supplements that are part of the D3 regimen and verapamil. He says >>If you are presently taking verapamil as a cluster headache preventative or for a heart condition, studies have shown that after repetitive dosing with verapamil, its serum half-life can be in a range from 4.5 to 12 hours. Other studies indicated calcium supplements interfere with calcium channel blockers like verapamil. Calcium gluconate is also used to treat reactions to oral verapamil. Accordingly, in order to minimize a possible interaction with calcium that may limit verapamil effectiveness, separate the verapamil and calcium doses by at least 8 to 12 hours. Discus this regimen with your PCP, neurologist, or cardiologist in order to work out an optimum dosing schedule.<< In terms of busting materials, I suppose many people here would advise you to try the psilo if you can, since many seem to consider it a superior busting agent. But RC has plenty of successes to its credit, and you're right that there's a whole lot less tripping involved. Yes, 1 gram dried is the pretty standard recommended psilo dose, and some people think that tripping hard, as you did, makes the M particularly effective. But the "official" CB busting document says this: >>Everyone is different so the range for a cubensis dose will be from about 0.5 grams to 1.5 grams. With more powerful species such as Psilocybe azurescens or Psilocybe cyanescens, a quarter or half a gram will be enough.<< (https://www.clusterheadaches.com/cb/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1290128444) Maybe views on this have changed, but I know we have had people here who have had success with doses of less than a gram. As you can see, this is just information, not really a recommendation. I'm hoping it might help you consider your options. Others will add more, probably more valuably.

Glad you had a doc who made sound CH prescriptions (from a conventional-meds perspective), including oxygen. All that Jeebs says is accurate, and of course you never really know what kinds of side effects you're going to experience, but it seems certain there will be some with those three meds (verap, trex, and pred) in your system. Some people have very severe reactions to steroids (the prednisone), but most people don't (of course, if you do, you'll know it). If you're going to continue with the D3 regimen (which I hope you will), note the interaction with verap. This is what Batch wrote about that: >>If you are presently taking verapamil as a cluster headache preventative or for a heart condition, studies have shown that after repetitive dosing with verapamil, its serum half-life can be in a range from 4.5 to 12 hours. Other studies indicated calcium supplements interfere with calcium channel blockers like verapamil. Calcium gluconate is also used to treat reactions to oral verapamil. Accordingly, in order to minimize a possible interaction with calcium that may limit verapamil effectiveness, separate the verapamil and calcium doses by at least 8 to 12 hours. Discus this regimen with your PCP, neurologist, or cardiologist in order to work out an optimum dosing schedule.<< Get that O2 ASAP, and (as we've said) seriously consider the mask made specifically for folks with CH ( '>http://www.clusterheadaches.com/khxc ). If you're not getting quick aborts with 15 lpm and the mask, step up to a higher flow (you can usually order a higher-flow regulator from eBay, among many other places -- you just have to be sure it fits with your tank(s)). I really hope that those meds get you some serious relief. I do have to say that just thinking about them reminds me of a belief that is strongly held here, which is that if busting substances were legal doctors would have to be crazy to prescribe anything else. Big PF wishes!

So very sorry to hear this news, Bob.

I haven't checked any of these for taurine, which many folks think is an important addition to the caffeine, but the 147 mg of caffeine in 16 ounces of Amp is not bad. A typical 16 oz Monster will have a little more, about 160 mg. Some people find 16 ounces a lot to chug. Jeebs has favored the energy shot (2 oz.) called 6 Hour Power, which has 125 mg of caffeine, and some folks go straight to the Monster Hitman Sniper, which has 240 ounces of caffeine in its 3 ounces! (We've had some discussions about the safety on energy drinks here, so I guess I should say something about using with a little caution.)

U'bird. Just four thoughts. (1) There are energy drinks and energy drinks. Glad you're sometimes getting good results with what you're using. Some have more caffeine and taurine than others, and for some people the higher-caff ones have more consistently good results. Monster makes some high-powered ones, as I recall. You might check some labels and see if you can step up, if you want to. (2) You're probably hoping now that your doc will prescribe O2 on Friday. We have found a shockingly large number of neuros who don't, or even won't, prescribe it. It might be good to go to your appointment prepared with a printout of the JAMA article on O2. You can find a link to that in the CB Oxygen Page under the black and white MENU tab on the left side of this page. (3) There's a list of docs recommended by people with CH here: https://clusterbusters.org/?page_id=455. The Colorado list is pretty short. These of course aren't the only good docs, but if you don't like yours, maybe there's an alternative there. (4) Are you doing any of the heavy D3 loading that Batch recommends for those who are just starting? (I guess what I'm asking here is whether you're working from the latest guidance provided by Batch, which is at the link I provided up above.) PF wishes!

lol (not making fun of your overall advice, mikemac. others have also said this helps them, and, as you say, others have said it doesn't.)

U'bird, I hope your Friday appointment turns out to be valuable. There are, of course, plenty of things conventional medicine can throw at cluster headaches, and sometimes some of them work. That would bevery good. In the meantime . . . In you first post you said you were going to be getting O2 last week. Did that happen? Have you taken steps to upgrade a basic O2 system--O2ptimask, higher-lpm regulator? Have you started the D3, or maybe licorice root, or tried the energy drinks that were suggested above? And, given Denny's comments about testing, have you considered buying some seeds -- legal to purchase, legal to possess -- to be ready to try busting if you decide to (or finding other substances)? Hoping that whatever a doc might prescribe on Friday will help, but also suggesting that there are other things you can be doing that might serve you well in addition to that.

Cindy, AO is still here, I'm happy to say -- he just has a different screen name now.

And you, in turn, have helped many, many others. Thank you.