Trying to bust, not working, please help, miserabl

[thisorthat]

Okay.

I've been getting clusters since I was 13, almost 30 years. I'd get them every year or every other year. I tried cafregot, histamine iv's, headache clinics, prednisone, running around the house shirtless holding a cup of hot water, etc. I was the first person to get imitrex in St. Louis, importing it in. I would get so many in a day and the imitrex was so expensive that I used to crush the pills and snort them(horrible on the sinus's), you only need to snort 10-20mg and the pills are cheaper. About 8 years ago I tried busting with shrms. I tried on a weekend and it didn't work. I read that I had to detox, got an oxygen concentrator, suffered for about ten days, tried again and haven't had a headache since(8 years of remission), until three weeks ago. I thought I had it beat permanently.

So I crushed some old imitrex pills. The headaches have  gotten progressively worse. Dull ache all day long, multiple sharp attacks, some lasting 20 minutes, others lasting an hour. This afternoon I was almost suicidal. I got an oxygen concentrator on Wednesday. It only puts out 10 lpm. I did notice that if I put the tubing in my mouth, and suck directly into my lungs and breathe out through my nose, it works pretty well. The longest the oxygen has taken to kill one is 18 minutes, but usually less. I've even slept a couple nights with it in my nose at 10 lpm and made it through the night(I know it's probably not great for my lungs).

So here's my question. The last time I snorted imitrex was last Wednesday. Last weekend(9 days ago) I tried busting with a large dose but I was still on the other meds, it was fun, but no results other then no headaches until early morning. I tried again Saturday night which was 3 days since taking the imitrex. Again, it was fun, but no relief after the effects wore off. I tried again last night, and again, no relief other then while on them. In fact maybe an hour or two after the effects wore off I got one. I've been using oxygen since Wednesday. I don't understand why it's not working this time. I read about the half life of psilocybin and psilocilin and it doesn't appear that they remain in the body very long so with three days detox it should have given me some relief.

I'm going to just use oxygen the next five days and try again next weekend. There's two other things I should mention. This weekend I took the same amount but didn't get nearly the psych effects as last weekend, in addition Sunday I had very limited effects as compared to Saturday, does a person build up a tolerance quickly to them? The other thing that worries me is that I am drug tested quite frequently and I am concerned about dirty urine drops.

I'm also worried about going to work tomorrow without oxygen or imitrex. Energy drinks help some but on Friday I got one around 4pm that was so debilitating I had to leave work and drive home with a cluster. I ran into the house and started breathing oxygen. I'm not sure if the oxygen even worked as the cluster was already a half hour old.

Does LSD work better?

I'm so tired of this. I hate these things. I really thought I had it beat after 8 years of remission. :'(

FYI I've read the studies, the FAQ's and all the sections of the sites. I'm looking for some personal experience advise.

Thanks for any help you can offer.

[Pixie-elf]

First, the oxygen concentrator isn't what you need.

You need pure 100% oxygen.

Second... Read the ClusterBusters files. Trying to bust over and over in just 3 days time isn't really enough. You need to wait 5 days between doses, or you're just wasting good medicine.

Third: For work, get some energy drinks. They'll help a hell of a lot. And get some little tanks to take to work with you.

Good luck!

[thisorthat]

The concentrator actually works fine for me. I just have to put the hose in my mouth and suck the air in till my lungs fill up, then exhale through my nose. I can actually get a second concentrator and hook them together through a t-connector to get 15-20 lpm if need be, but I'd need a new script. The problem I have with using the tanks is that they told me the largest tank set at 15 lpm only gives me 30 minutes of oxygen, yikes! I'd need more then one tank a day, not only is that cost prohibitive, it's impractical. As for a small tank for work, same issue. Today went okay at work. I kept moving around, didn't sit in my chair for too long, and drank a bunch of sugar free red bulls and diet cokes.

I'm going to try busting again Saturday night which will be 6 days from the last dose. I sure hope it works this time(and that I don't get dropped after). If you do the math on the half life, even the metabolites shouldn't show up after three days so it's weird that it needs five.

Last night I got up every hour and a half with a ch. Thank god I woke at the onset of each one so it only took a few minutes of oxygen to kill them. But it's really hard to get good sleep like that, and it's really taking its toll on me(bags under my eyes, not able to think clearly, tired all day, etc.). I sure hope I can kill the cycle over the weekend.

Thanks for your prompt response. I really enjoy reading this board. Although I don't wish ch's on anyone(well maybe a couple ex-gf's, lol), it's therapeutic to know I'm not in this alone.

[Bejeeber]

I thought I had it beat permanently

That's common - after 30 years or so with CH, a lot of us think that, only to be rudely surprised.  :-/

Does LSD work better?

My impression is that yes it can, but there are so many variables regarding particular batches of LSD or mushrooms, not to mention the variability in the way different individuals react, that there's not enough hard data  for a rule there that applies to everyone yet.

I bet waiting these 6 days before the next mushroom bust will really help. 

The concentrator actually works fine for me.

There's another common situation to watch out for, which is that lower flow rebreather O2 can work at first, but as a cycle intensifies you very well may need higher flows and 100% O2. if you find the effectiveness of your current system diminishing and if you can afford it I would recommend getting a demand valve system - the most effective high flow O2 based CH killer out there. It could also be really good for quickest aborts with an E tank at work. It conserves O2 compared to just using a high flow regulator, since the O2 is only released upon inhale. And please keep in mind that the O2/energy drink combo can be particularly effective.

they told me the largest tank set at 15 lpm only gives me 30 minutes of oxygen

They are quite full of baloney. The most common home tank size - an M tank - holds significantly more than that. Here it is according to one website:

the duration flow in minutes for a full M cylinder being used at 15 LPM:

duration of flow in minutes = (3000 - 200) x 1.56 = 291.2 minutes = 4 hours 50 minutes

A whole lot of CH'ers tell the prescription writers to take those prescriptions and shove 'em, and they just get the same O2 without a prescription at the local welding supply place.  8-)

[defectiv]

i use small o2 tanks at 25 lpm and with practice can get through

10+ hits with one tank. i just breathe in fully then cut the supply for exhale

i know u have read it all but i really suggest tanks of o2 and practice getting

the air supply to cut inbetween lpm

mine goes 20 - 25 amd there is a spot between them that cuts the flow off

also when my cycle is its worst i bust every three days then cut back to

every 5 after i can make it throufh 1 night with no hits.

the slap back effect is common

[thisorthat]

Thank you all so much for the information. I hope you're right about the 6 days... 

I'll call the oxygen place again today to find out what my options are. For now the concentrator is working. If I am at the beginning of the ch it usually kills it in 5-10 minutes, a little longer if it's already pretty intense. I'd be concerned about using welding tanks as they don't regulate the amount of trace elements/gasses the same way breathable oxygen is regulated. Breathing in potentially toxic gasses would worry me.

I have another question. I had lasik eye surgery a little over three weeks ago. Ever since I started using the oxygen my eyes have gotten drier and are swollen. They burn when I wake up. I am concerned. Has anyone else had a similar issue with the oxygen. I am using it quite frequently.

My schedule is, I go to sleep, I wake up an hour and a half later at the beginning of a ch, I breathe oxygen, I cant fall asleep for a few hours...I finally sleep and again wake up with a ch an hour and a half later, use oxygen, can usually go right back to sleep because I'm so tired, wake up again an hour and a half later, oxygen again. You can use my ch's to set your clock, they're that exact. The problem is I am getting very little quality sleep, I go in to work late, and I can't seem to focus very well because of lack of sleep. Any suggestions?

Thanks so much for all of your suggestions. One of the worst  parts of clusters is you can't really describe them to other people so they really don't understand how really bad and debilitating they are. It's nice to correspond with people who understand.

If another non-ch person tells me to watch my stress, what I eat, and take ibuprofen I'm going to strangle them, lol. I workout with weights 4 days a week, constantly watch my diet, and am in amazing shape... I carry around a printout of the symptoms so when non-ch people start making suggestions I just give them the printout and tell them to read it if they're that interested.

If anyone has any insights to my eye issues I'd appreciate it. Thanks again fellow ch'ers.

[Bejeeber]

Ever since I started using the oxygen my eyes have gotten drier and are swollen.

I don't know if it would help your eyes, but a "bubbler" is commonly used with O2 to combat respiratory tract dryness.

The problem is I am getting very little quality sleep.....Any suggestions?

Melatonin at bedtime, starting at 9 mg, all the way up to 21 mg, is used by many to help avoid the night hits, which of course can aid greatly with sleeping!  This form is said to be the one to get: n-Acetyl-5-Methoxytryptamine (available OTC at the drug store in the US)

[thisorthat]

n-Acetyl-5-Methoxytryptamine appears to be the chemical name for melatonin. I looked at the diagram and it appears to be a tryptamine with a ch3(methyl) group on the side. If that's the case won't it affect my ability to bust my ch's this weekend? I don't want to take anything that might affect my ability to kill this cycle.

I am working on some very important deals right now that could change my life. The last thing I needed right now was to not be able to sleep. I actually went to bed earlier tonight at a non-ch persons suggestion and I woke up a half hour later with a ch. I used oxygen, threw my laundry in the drier,  ate an ice cream, and decided to check the board. Ugh!

I'm going to try to go back to sleep, probably be up an hour and a half from now breathing oxygen...anyway let me know if you have any experience with the melatonin interfering with being able to bust a cycle.

Also thanks for the info on the bubbler/humidifier. I already told them I needed one because my mouth and throat get so dry from that oxygen. I doubt it'll help my eyes, but who knows. Any other insights about my dry eyes would be appreciated.

Thanks.

[ThatHurtsMyHead]

ThisorThat,

Rooting for you,,, - O2, Monster Energy drinks and fungus

PFW,

Jeff

[Bejeeber]

let me know if you have any experience with the melatonin interfering with being able to bust a cycle.

I haven't seen any reports yet of melatonin interfering with busting and so far I've seen it categorized as one of the substances that shouldn't interfere.

[Brew]

...they don't regulate the amount of trace elements/gasses the same way breathable oxygen is regulated.

That's just not true. Impurities in welding oxygen cause welds to fail. If that were the case, you'd see bridges and buildings falling down all around you.

Fact is, I've seen hundreds of reports from CH sufferers who routinely use welding oxygen without incident. Please get the facts.

[thisorthat]

There's no such thing as 100% pure oxygen. Even the concentrators put out carbon monoxide so if you don't use over 10 lpm they won't let you use a mask as the ratio of carbon monoxide would be too high. I don't know exactly what's in welding oxygen. There are gases that don't affect welding but do affect the human body. I don't know if there's contaminants that could harm a person, all I said is I would be concerned without knowing. At least with prescription oxygen they have monitored any gasses that could be harmful to a person. I'm not telling anybody else not to do it, I've been suicidal during ch's, I'd be willing to chop off a finger to make them go away, so I'd never tell anybody not to do just about anything to make the pain go away. I know how debilitating it is, I'm with you brother. I  would just be leery of breathing that stuff if I had other options.

Okay, so interesting turn of events. Yesterday all day I had a weak throb, pounded diet red bulls all day long to get by. Left work around 9:30pm. I went to bed around midnight, didn't use any oxygen. Woke up 3 hours later, just a dull throb no need to use oxygen. Was up 3 or so hours, fell back asleep, woke up at 8am to meet the guy for the bubbler/humidifier. I chilled out after that, now I'm going to work around noon. I have no headache or even dull ache right now, but I still feel that feeling in my head that I'm active, you know that pressure feeilng. I think it might have ended and that the buster ingredient took a few days to work its magic as this is way to short for a normal cluster cycle for me. Although it has been 7-8 years since I've had them so it may have run its course early. The only true way to know is to down some alcohol which I absolutely wouldn't risk doing right now, lol. If non-ch people only knew what we go through.

In any event, I will wait it out and see what happens over the next few days. I probably won't try busting again Saturday night if all of this is over, which I pray it is. I'll keep you updated.

This might add to the anecdotal evidence that sometimes it takes a few days for it to work its magic.

I'll update you if I get another ch or if it's cleared, but so far so good. Thank you all for your help and support.

[thisorthat]

Just a dull ache this afternoon, but been pounding diet red bulls all day, the real test is tonight. If nothing tonight I'll try an alcohol drink tomorrow night(maybe if I have the courage, lol).

Gonna address the oxygen purity issue in a new thread.

[Jefferson312]

DMT works the best personally. smoke the crystal short trip easily adjustable psych effects by breathing technics.  gota freebase it tho.  super quick acting, "trip" lasts 30 mins.  minute amounts work.  Cheaply and easily made from mimose hositilis.

[thisorthat]

Okay so the last couple nights  I have not had a ch. I have had a dull ache. It's been so long since I've had clusters that I can't remember how a cycle ends. Is it slow or is it abrupt? I did try busting again last night just to make sure. I drank some vodka and smoked a cigarette(yich) to see if it would trigger one and nothing happened. I couldn't sleep well last night because of the 10 or so diet red bulls I drank yesterday late afternoon and evening. I think they're gone. So either the busting worked last weekend and it took 3 or 4 days for it work after I did it or it simply ran its course. In any event I am very thankful if it is in fact gone and hopefully this time it's for good.

I did read up on the welding vs. medical oxygen. It's quite complicated. There are various grades, various concentrations, and various mixtures of different trace gases. USP which is prescription grade oxygen comes in 7 grades, A being the minumum for safe consumption and G being aviator grade. G doesn't freeze up at high altitudes. Each grade has different ratios of other gases such as co, co2, methane, etc. I have not been able to find a breakdown of non-prescription welding oxygen. There is also a difference in how the tanks are lined, and filled. There is no evacuation of the tanks before they refill them in industrial or welding oxygen. This could possibly cause issues in altering the concentration of gasses, etc. 

A quote: "The requirement of always evacuating a cylinder, regardless of cylinder pressure, is a step intended to minimize contamination that might occur from "back-filling" of a cylinder improperly connected to a gas cascade system, or left open to the atmosphere for extended periods of time. It also prevents the accumulation of possible contaminants from repeated fills from a compromised source. The primary distinction of oxygen cylinders intended for medical (emergency applications are also medical procedures) procedures and respirators and all other uses is this evacuation step between fills."

Here is a good site that explains this in detail and shows the chart of the different grades of USP Oxygen.  http://www-personal.umich.edu/~lpt/oxlabel.htm

Again I'd do anything to kill a ch. I'd shoot uranium in my veins if it killed a cluster. I'm not telling anyone not to breathe welding oxygen, I just thought you should know some issues that might arise.

I'm going to repost the oxygen in a new thread.

Thanks again for all your help.

[Brew]

I'm not telling anyone not to breathe welding oxygen,

But you sure seem hellbent on steering them away from it.

[thisorthat]

Just information my friend. I crush imitrex and snort it, not something I'd recommend to somebody else. It's horrible for the sinus's. But a person has to do what they have to do.

And fyi, I love Rand, read all her books.