Need help - Old tricks not working anymore

[iPain]

Been a long time since I posted.  I've mostly felt a good level of control over the beast since I last posted (thanks to all of you).  Forgive me, but when I don't have the pain, I want to avoid even thinking about it, so I avoid this message board.  I have a possibly irrational fear that if I think about it too much, I'll actually cause a new cycle. 

I have oxygen, Immitrex injections, Red Bull, and RC.  I also do the Vitamin D regimen and Melatonin nightly.

RC busted me in February 2012, April 2012, November 2012, and February 2013.  I am just entering week 3 of my current cycle.  Severe kip 7-9 pain nightly at midnight-2 a.m., 1-2 additional per day (kip 3-4) with shadows consistently remaining throughout the day.  So far, 3 courses of RC have not busted me (I've only needed more than 1 dose once).

Considering pred taper and Verapamil even though I had only limited success with it in the past unless there is someone in the South Florida area that can help get me out of this cycle. 

Please send me a message if you think you can help.

My best to all. 

[Bejeeber]

Hey iPain,

If you're considering trying other busting materials such as vit M, that does sound like a logical next step to me.

Certainly there have been others (including myself) who've been able to get back in the busting saddle again after switching.

Also, have you tried different vendors / fresh seeds for your latest RC busts? Some of us believe RC potency can possibly be an issue from batch to batch.

[iPain]

All of my RC have come from the same vendor.  It has always worked in the past.  This latest batch is about 3 months old.  Perhaps ordering again from a different vendor is worth trying.  Pretty miserable at the moment.  Barely any sleep for weeks.  Work suffering, marriage suffering, you know the drill.  Really starts messing with you when the things that used to work stop working.

[iPain]

I have not gotten any personal messages, so I assume nobody is in the South Florida area and able to help.  I will order new RC now and hope that works.  However, I've never tried any other busting techniques and am a bit soured on RC due to recent failures.  If anyone has the ability to help me with new techniques in the short-term for me to try and determine its efficacy for me (regardless of where you are located), please let me know.  I am reaching that desperation point....

My thoughts are with all presently dealing with this devil.  I want my life back, I want to feel like me again....

[iPain]

2 days until I can bust again. Ordered new seeds. Just had a kip 8, aborted with oxygen and red bull. I refuse to call it kip 10. I only had one of those. For 20 minutes, I wanted death. All I knew was pain. Didn't matter I have a wife that loves me and a steady job. I live in fear of another kip 10. Now exhausted from nights of pain and wired from red bull.  My wife has that hopeless feeling in her eyes.  Need to vent to those that get it. When you're in cycle, it runs (or should I say ruins) your life

[iPain]

Kip 8 in the middle of the day in public. Got a red bull. No help. Found a corner to pace and punch my eye for a half hour. Someone help me. I'm on the edge.

[alleyoop]

iPain, Hang in there!

Help is around the corner; I'm sure of it.

Feel free to PM me, although I am going to bed and it may be tomorrow before I answer.

Things will get better!

Bobb

[Bejeeber]

Hey iPain, the following idea may seem ridiculous, and maybe it isn't really a realistic or advisable option for you, but just grasping at straws here I started thinking about how close you are there in South Florida to the Bomba Shack.

I don't even know if the Bomba Shack still exists, but If you haven't heard about it, here's a link to a thread devoted to it:

http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cb/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1297450426

[iPain]

Very interesting.  Not an option at the moment because I managed to let my passport expire a couple months ago.  Could be an option in the future, but it would take a while to renew.  Thanks for the thoughts and well-wishes all.  Right now my wife is asleep on the couch, exhausted from dealing with my not-so-subtle nightly sessions.  I'm actually afraid to go to sleep.  Red bull seems to no longer be a viable option for the current cycle.  Oxygen is still available, and I'm now keeping an Immitrex injection at my side 24/7 in case of a kip 9-10.  I know it goes against detox, but kip 9-10 means death is preferable. 

[Bejeeber]

Understood about the need to have that trex injection handy.

You might find some recent posts by Ricardo on the subject of trex injections in proximity to busting to be interesting, keeping in mind that there can be a wide variation in how we CH'ers respond to these things, and that Ricardo takes unusually high Vit M doses:

http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cb/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1369049582/11#11

[Tony Only]

In my case the Imitrex (and a bunch of others meds) made busts fail, even when working on that at least 5 day window. You sure you're not on any medicating that actually blocks busting from happening or is interfering? When med free, various busting techiniques became even more efficient. Wish you luck.

[iPain]

I take an Allegra every day for allergies.  That's the only medication I've been taking, and I've taken it for every other bust without issue.

It's decision time.  My new RC didn't get here yesterday, which means I won't see them until Tuesday with the holiday.  So, in the past I have done between 40-80 RC.  60 seemed to be my sweet spot.  I've done 60, 60, 80 so far.  It's a 500 pack, so I still have enough.  Any advice on what to do?  I have nothing but RC or I have an unused pred script and Verapamil script.  Those are the only two options before me at this moment.  Thoughts?

[iPain]

To follow-up, I know this group is extremely skeptical of pred/verap, but based on past experience, I will have roughly 5 days pain free.  It may hit very hard once I start to taper down, but the thought of 5 pain free days is pretty appealing right now.  Besides, my cycles usually last about 4-6 weeks, and I'm approaching week 4.  Plus, so far, no effect whatsoever from 3 busts.  Granted, every other time I did RC, complete bust like it was a miracle.  Nobody can tell me exactly what is right for me, but these are my only two options as I see it right now, and I would like to hear from those who have been there.

Also, if I haven't said it enough before, I believe this message board saves lives.  I can't say I would have ever actually killed myself, but until I found this board, I didn't know it was even possible to control the beast.  I'm usually a very happy person.  I just wanted to thank everyone again.  You may not have techanically taken the bullet from a gun (I don't even own one), but you have metaphorically talked me off the ledge more than once. 

[Bejeeber]

my cycles usually last about 4-6 weeks, and I'm approaching week 4.

Oh. Well based on my personal experience, that can be a MAJOR game changer right there, since as episodics we do have the option that our chronic compadres don't have of riding out a cycle with meds, then following up with maintenance busting.

I've ridden out a 2.5 month cycle before with O2 and meds (plenty of trex jabs at high cycle for the wake up hits) when RC didn't bust it for me, and have successfully busted with vit M ever since, so I can see this approach working for others too, especially when there are only 2 weeks or so expected to be left of a cycle.

With hyper-vigilance, luck, and armed to the teeth, I was able to abort every single hit during that 2.5 months, at least well enough that I never had to endure a full blown, full length (3 hour long) version.

So my take on it is that we don't have to adopt a religious sort of shunning of all meds when there's a temporary, critical situation they can very likely help us out of.

[Caveat: keeping in mind that there's a slight risk of an episodic pattern treated with meds turning into a chronic one when we least expect it - a risk I took and was lucky enough to come out the other end fine.]

[CHfather]

If you think the verap alone could work, you might know that there are more than a few people here who have busted with success while on verapamil.  Not complete success in most cases, but enough to make a difference.   So maybe you could start the verap, then bust, and see what happens.   I haven't heard the same about success with busting while taking prednisone.   

Or, as Jeebs says, go with just the verap/pred and ride out this cycle that way.  You don't say anything in your first post about preventive busting between cycles; maybe you'll want to start that.

[blueballs]

I'm a donkey on the edge...its the endless treadmill of pain and torture. Hope your in a better fightin mood bro...

BB

[iPain]

Decided not to give same batch of RC a 4th shot and considering your advice and the likelihood I'm more than half done with my cycle, I started the pred/verapamil late yesterday. Had a very rough night again, but feel pretty decent so far today.

One day, I do think I need to try the other busting methods so I know what works best for me.

Finally, it is true that I didn't really use RC as preventative. I didn't feel there was a real consensus on how often to use them. Basically. I have a kip 1-2 almost every day of my life regardless, they are usually short lived. The second I feel anything stronger, I bust. If others out there can suggest a better alternative to that strategy, I'm all ears. I personally hate the pred side effects and am not looking forward to the next two weeks, but it beats the beast any day.

[heilette]

Go to "Omharmonics", and listen to that music, for me the RC and mushrooms did not work. This is another kind of "busting". It is helping me!!! I am a different person now!!

I even had sex with my husband tonight!!

[jimmys]

where in south florida are you

[iPain]

Work in miami, live north of the city.

[blueballs]

Shrooms= big hammer   RC seeds=lil hammer

Bb

[iPain]

pm i just sent to bobb that i figured i'd share with the group in case anyone disagrees with my plans and has a better idea:

It happened.  kip 10.

40-60 minutes of screaming, crying, pacing, eyelid swollen shut tearing, nose running, terrified wife.

trex injection, oxygen, and after 15 minutes chewed up 2 percocets.  would have swallowed a bullet if i had it and my wife wasn't there.

i'm done with prednisone.  this is the mutant cycle from hell.  i'm tapering down to 2 tomorrow, then 1 the next day, then that's it.  5 days and i'm hitting the hbwr i ordered today.

[iPain]

Couple things: have people found that even oxygen, red bull, and trex injections lose their effectiveness at times?  I did all 3 and was in kip 10 for 10-15 minutes and kip 8-9 for the remaining 30-40 minutes.  I did everything right to abort. This is truly a mutant cycle.

What I am suffering from now (beyond the pain) is a feeling of total loss of control.  All the right answers aren't necessarily right anymore. 

HBWR is my next available option to try.  I'm tapering down on the shockingly worthless pred so that I will be done after tomorrow.  5 days of detox has me busting next Wednesday.  The seeds arrive on Friday.  I've read the archives, but I feel like most people either go for the strongest busters or do RC.  HBWR has seemingly been largely abandoned.  I understand you must remove the entire outer shell with pliars or something similar, then take out the mushy inside and grind it and put it in water for 2 hours, then drink.  I just want to make sure I'm not missing something.  If anyone has successfully busted with HBWR and has some additional advice, I'm all ears.

Thanks again to all.

[CHfather]

At least for oxygen and RedBull/energy drinks in general, the answer is definitely yes.  But most people seem to be able revitalize the effectiveness of O2 with a better mask, higher flow rate, and different breathing strategies (see p22 here: http://clusterbusters.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/OXYGEN-12-20122.pdf).  And there are energy drinks that are a lot higher in caffeine and taurine than RedBull.  Someone was just mentioning a high-octane Monster or Rockstar brand the other day. I think it was Monster Nitrous, which does have twice the caffeine, albeit in a somewhat larger can.  Someone else has mentioned Monster Hitman Sniper as a favorite.  OMG, is there caffeine in there.

There have been some people here, just a few, who have said that HBWR worked for them when RC didn't.  It's a little puzzling to me, because the LSA in both of them is the same (I guess some folks disagree with this); my guess tends to be that their RC was weak in some way and the HBWR wasn't. (When I say the LSA is "the same," I mean chemically; obviously, you get more LSA from fewer "seeds" with HBWR, but again, that's because the HBWR isn't a seed but a husk--the seeds are inside.)  I had a devil of a time trying to prepare HBWR -- never was sure I was doing it right.  But I think what you are describing is the right process, although people have their own wrinkles.

Some people here say that if you soak RC (or, I suppose, HBWR) in cold peppermint tea you will get a stronger concoction, LSH instead of LSA.  Some people doubt that.  Maybe no harm in trying it.

[iPain]

CHfather, thank you for the thoughtful reply.  I re-read the oxygen materials to make sure I'm doing things correctly.  I successfully killed a good sized CH last night by chugging 2 red bulls.  Seems a bit on the ridiculous side, but it's better than the pain.

I've tried the peppermint tea and also tried lemon juice before.  Didn't notice a difference personally, but putting it in water with some lemon juice helped it go down smoother just by masking the taste.

Seems HBWR may be more trouble than they are worth if their effectiveness should be no different than rc.  Bottom line, seems I either got a poor batch of rc, or they just lost their effectiveness on me.  I have to hope I have a different result with the HBWR.  I know there are other options out there, but none of those are available to me at the moment, and it's my understanding that it would be at least a couple months if I tried cultivating.