Why the hell not?

[Hipshot]

Ok I have a question for ya.

I dosed 2 days ago.

Because the dose I did on Oct 5th took me way out there on 1.5g; I decided to do less.

I took 1.2g or 1.3g and just had a weird/jittery/sluggish feeling for several hours. No real trip. I am headachy today and had one post dose hit yesterday quickly aborted with 02.

OUESTION:

Since I hate and dread the effects of dosing, why not do 1.5g or even more today since one is supposedly unable to trip for several days after dosing? Get the benefit without (sub)hallucinating?

I think I need somebody to talk me in to trying it??!!

Best wishes to all

Dan

ps Where is Dallas Denny?

[MJ]

Dan

I am not sure where the 5 day dosing came from but apparently for many that innefectiveness does exist for that period of time.

For me I can feel the dose of seeds and redose at just 6 hours, I do dose with smaller doses at the 6-10  hr mark if CH breaks through, LSD at 16 hrs or less. Shrooms not enough experience. The taper method I once posted was based on this. Keeping the doors closed.

Hopefully someone can explain the reasons of waiting further. Is it just group think or what dont know.

Psiloscribe or others may have that answer.

I absolutely understand the detox period but not the dose time period. As the phsycadelic effects, unless one enjoys them, dont seem a necessity to me to curb CH. In fact I sometimes wonder if its a detriment.

I still believe absolutely that most should wait the 5 days as group experience says thats best.

[MJ]

In another thought;

I also think some dose too much too often with escalating doses and sometimes should wait longer.

Its all individual and we obviously need to still find our own dose and comfort level.

[Guest]

hey dan

i dosed three days in a row, i tried to taper, kinda like using mushies like steroids, since steroids have always been so effective for me . . .

i did 1.5, 1, then .5

i felt them every time and had no progress, things stayed the same

i too hate the effects but i hate clusters more

the only PF time i had while doing this was the 6 or so hours i was "under the influence"

i talked to psiloscribe about it and he said it wasnt a bad idea, worth a try but he would have increased the dose each time, from what i understand is when we "low dose" the effects arent going on long enough, and kinda just piss off the beast and stirr things up

but as mj said we are our own experiment, so give it a try i guess, i wouldnt tell ya not too,

tolerance is really different for everyone i have discovered and so have many others

i kinda think when we dose its like shakin a snow globe, everything goes a little crazy for a while, hence waiting a few days before we "shake" it again

if your up for it give it a whirl, and tell us how it goes

personally, when i muster up the balls im gonna go 2.5-3 instead of 1.5-2, i dont think i can do the combo that rc seed liquid is awful and a few hours into a shroom dose ill be refunding for sure lol

AO

[Hipshot]

Thanks guys. I'll let you know

[kaboom]

i kinda think when we dose its like shakin a snow globe, everything goes a little crazy for a while, hence waiting a few days before we "shake" it again

I like that illustration.

I'm sorry your having a hard time, Hipshot. My CH's came back today also.      If we lived closer to each other, I'd share my ice packs and Red Bull with you.

I'm of no help what-so-ever on this topic as I'm confused on the frequency of dosing also.  Poor Psiloscribe is surely tired of me asking when I can dose and how much.  (Love ya, Bob!  ) 

[tingeling]

I did two doses of both LSD and mushrooms, same day, hours of space. I done a sec dose some times i did not have pain relief, it worked for me. I thought if Imitrex can work at a sec dose, for me one wasn`t enough, i needed two. Why shouldn`t a sec dose with mushrooms work. As i couldn`t see how it could harm me, other ways then waisting my medicine.

I done it the times i felt it didn`t come "trough", and it worked the times i did it.

[alleyoop]

Hopefully someone can explain the reasons of waiting further. Is it just group think or what

Hey MJ!

I think you bring up a very legitimate point.  As you know, the consensus to wait 5 days between doses comes from years of anecdotal research, which could of course be construed as "group think."

Although it has no direct bearing on me since I am no longer busting, you got my attention with your first "taper" post on another thread.  I hope that more try your method so that we can get some good anecdotal evidence on your theory. 

I know that there are many, including me that don't care for the hallucinogenic aspects of busting, and your method would all but eliminate that.  The fact that we have found success with BOL, in my mind, promotes your regimen.

Thanks so much for all of your contributions on these boards!

Bob

[Hipshot]

Wow

Thanks everyone.

I had things come up today and I chickened out both. Good things I might add.

Feeling better now and maybe just post dose hits or shadows.

Not bad "A walk in the park on a sunny day" compared to the old days. Everything is relative.

I may well try the taper method next month...(hoping for a month, please, please,please)

Dan

[MJ]

Its all good next to the old days when we had nothing hey Dan.

Not wanting to hijack your thread but... Why the hell not?  8-)

Bob thanks for the comments. Wether one is right or wrong its allways nice to know someone listens.

A small misunderstanding seems to be there on the tapering theory. Not even sure where I posted that, think it was angels thread.

A clarification. and still not sure it makes sense.

When dosing this way in regards to AO's comments above. Its not necessarily about daily dosing but about keeping the current dose rolling I quess. I have some difficulty in the explanations as I would hate to see harm come to anyone and dont think its for everyone so I post with caution.

AO,

for you as the effects of a single dose at .5 (pain free time) as you say lasted for 6 hours then at aproximately that 6 hour time frame I would have taken another smaller dose to continue that pain free affect. You would then not feel the affect as you stated above so strongly.

(for others that period may be 12, 24, or even 48 hours for all I know} for many its 3-7 days. others it might be years, lucky bastards. Sadly you and I are at 6 hours.

The next dose maybe smaller still would be at the next 6 hr mark or whatever it is for you when symptoms of CH no matter how small return.

The hope is that in short order the receptors, chemicals, whatever, begin to reset or balance.

If the full affect of the medicine is felt you waited too long and now must wait out a period for the receptors to open fully and start again at the lowest effective dose.

For me it is a 6-8 hour period between decreased dosing and 3 days before the good results start to show. 5 days total the last time I tried and then it was 3 weeks before I dosed again, then At a non scheduled 3-6 week interlude as symptoms appeared. Now its been about 9 weeks since last treatment (dose) and paying close attention to my head. It took 6 months of trial and error, lots of research and amazing support from BobW, Flash and many others before I finally found this method to work for me several years ago..  I think post dose hits may be somewhat due to an overcorrection with our medicines and I found with the lower doses I take, post dose hits generally dont occur once the treatment has been under way.

I agree fully with BobW's infinite wisdom on that point when dosing beyond the time frame of affect maybe an increased dose is needed. But we are talking 2 differing methods here.

Keeping the doors to pain closed vs waiting for them to open and whacking the cat again.

I would think you could test this with a medium sput when the initial dose begins to wear off and see if that has a slight prolonging affect on the time period without pain. If so then it may be worth a harder trial.

[Cassidy]

If I remember right, there was at least one person that treated his CH by taking .5 capsule for each and every headache.

That would be similar to using a sput for each headache. My first attempts, the post dose hits were so bad. I used sputs until the post dose hits went away. Even now, like the last two nights I have used sputs for unexpected hits. I have seeds soaking now and will dose soon.

If I haven't already said this, I was approaching one year of being "free."

Also for those of you that feel you might outgrow these things some day, I just had a birthday, PLEASE NO SINGING!, and I could be the oldest one in the family and I don't think age is going to be the "cure". For what that is worth. Everything else goes to hell, but the CH is alive and well.

I'm okay with it, because of busting. I manage it.  ;)Leslie

[Hipshot]

Thanks for the input Leslie and MJ.

So far so good for me today, three days after my dose. More clear headed today and hope to make a month.

Thanks again for everyone's participation in trying to help me.

Dan

[Bonkers]

We're pioneers here. We're still at the very beginning of our understanding of how these chemicals work both in and of themselves and in relation to CH. We need to try a variety of dosages and combinations and a whole lot of other stuff and we have to do it knowing that these things are illegal and we could go to jail. It would be different if we had quality control and a way to measure potency and a bunch of govt. money and a staff of chemists and neurologists and MRI machines and all that other crap - but we don't. It's just us. In the meantime we need be adventuresome to the extent that we're comfortable, we need to keep records as best we can and share information with each other. We'll get there, with or without govt. help, with or without legal authority. We're incredibly lucky that we found a class of chemicals that has this unique property. We just need a little patience and perseverance. We're getting there. Good on you, Hipshot, for having the balls to try something a little different.

[Hipshot]

Love you Bonkers

[Bonkers]

Michael has taken both LSD and shrooms before the usual 5-day wait and on neither occasion did he either trip or bust.

[Hipshot]

Interesting.

Right now I'm just glad the last bust seems like it's gonna hold. Fingers crossed and all that stuff.

Michael is a hard case for sure but has a good daddy looking after him. I bet he's proud.

Dan

[tingeling]

Michael has taken both LSD and shrooms before the usual 5-day wait and on neither occasion did he either trip or bust. 

I didn`t trip either. but for some reason sometimes it feels as if the medicine doesn`t come into the system at all, like drinking a reg cup of tea. those times a sec dose kicked in. It shouldn`t have, i know, but it did. It took the pain away.

[Angel]

So far so good for me today, three days after my dose. More clear headed today and hope to make a month.

Ya very happy to hear Dan! Looks like you are on your way again to PF Month and hopefully months 

[Angel]

If and when my hubby's headache start to get bad again this is the method he will try. And I will keep you posted all the way!

[Psiloscribe]

Good thread topic and discussion. Thanks to all.

The original theory behind the usual dosing strategy is based in several areas. It begins with the thought that it is the "whack" the dose provides that breaks the cycle. One of the first analogies, similar to the snow globe, is that our hypothalamus is like an old tube radio that goes out of sync and needs a "whack" to regain its tuning. Re-dosing the next day usually doesn't produce this "whack" so its not only wasting medicine but prolonging the next dose that will provide this whack to the system.

Over the years, many people that don't have complete results from standard dosing have tried some different techniques. One that I do suggest for some people is re-dosing when the first dose begins to wear off to increase the length of the "whack" so to say. It does work sometimes.

Some people have reported using repeated dosing over several days with limited success. In most cases this does just waste medicine and for most people its hard enough to come by as it is. It is one way though of enabling (most) people to increase the size of the dose without increasing the hallucinogenic effects. It is something we have looked at in our study design.

One theory behind repeated dosing is to keep the receptors bathed in the hallucinogen to try and retrain them to "play nice" and work properly again. I've tried it and although I was pain free while on the doses, the clusters would return. I'm one of those that need the "whack" or two.

The success rate for the standard dosing is still very high. It would be wrong I think to suggest that anyone try a different method to begin with. Until we can compile similar or better numbers with a different strategy, I feel everyone should start with standard dosing. If that doesn't work it doesn't hurt to try new methods. Anyone that does should report their results. It may be that we can do better, which is why we are all here.

Bob

[MJ]

The success rate for the standard dosing is still very high. It would be wrong I think to suggest that anyone try a different method to begin with. Until we can compile similar or better numbers with a different strategy, I feel everyone should start with standard dosing. If that doesn't work it doesn't hurt to try new methods. Anyone that does should report their results. It may be that we can do better, which is why we are all here.

Bob

Well said and agreed Bob.

I would hope those new to busting would allways follow the standard ways first and give it a fighting chance before any alternate dose methods are tried. As the reccomended standard ways are the majority proven ways as stated to a life with less pain..

On the other hand, Its allways hard to see others continue to suffer and dose time and time again without really making headway after months of trying. Thats when alternate methods of attack with the CB treatments should be tried and developed.

I feel strongly that if any aide was given with a few doses of any of the CB meds then there is a method that will work for you if the 5 day periods dont knock them out.

I was there not so long ago, though it seems like yesterday since my life was returned to me.. Thankyou.

For those that dont know, like some of you, I was hit on average 8-12 times per 24 hours for up to 2 hrs each. Other than silent attacks at off cycle I had never experienced less than a level 10 pain attack untill the seeds came along. I would average daily sleep measured in minutes at atime vs hours for sometimes years.

In allmost 6 years now thanks to clusterbusters I have only suffered one short cycle of 6 months and some random hits and symptoms

Thats because of my error in logic I believe. I thought I had become immune to the treatments when in reality the meds (RC seeds) were at fault. Different approach and all is well again. The fear is gone.

[tingeling]

Well, there`s only one thing to say. You deserve your painfree time!!

[Hipshot]

Thanks MJ.

I looked back at my journal today. I last busted with mushrooms 11-3. I began in April 2010.

I have dosed  a total of 10 times. Generally I am pain free...random stuff and hits that come on to necessitate a bust. I am dosing now about once per month and still trying to stretch the intervals.

I am a happy camper.

Dan