Demand Valve O2

[Trent]

Hello all,    

I live in Canada, and unfortunately we have strict laws and restrictions on Medical O2 and related materials.    I had tried to order a simple regulator on-line but it can't be shipped here.

Are you able to order regulators, Demand valves, ect and have shipped to your address in the US no problem?   Do you need to provide prescriptions ect?    

I ask because I have a few friends in the US, and would like to ask one to buy on my behalf, and then I would take a trip to visit, pay them back ect and then make my way back to Canada. 

It would probably be Arizona or California if it makes a difference.

I would really like to increase my setup for O2, I've slowly acquired 2 Welding tanks, 8 D size medical for travel, a transfil hose, and a bunch of regulars with no Diss outlet.   I have prescription, but too ridged and costly to go medical route.   

I think a demand valve with CGA870 and CGA540 would be an effective way to go.   "No more waiting for green bag to fill, or wasting precious O2"  

 

Thank you

Edited October 29, 2019 by Trent
Add clarity

[Pebblesthecorgi]

Should not be a problem in US to get.  Of course you need to know the regulator type you need depending on tank size and source ( medical O2 or welding). Medical grade regulators are available on Amazon or eBay or often factory direct

[CHfather]

Never heard of anyone in US having a problem getting a regulator.  No prescription needed.  Mixed experiences regarding demand valves from medical suppliers -- some seem to require a prescription; others don't seem to.  I don't know why.  In other venues, such as EBay, there seem to be no prescriptions required.

4 hours ago, Trent said:

  I think a demand valve … would be an effective way to go.   "No more waiting for green bag to fill, or wasting precious O2"

Just a couple of comments on this.  Demand valve is nice, but you don't need it to accomplish those purposes. And they're expensive, particularly since you have to have the regulators (with DISS fittings) in any event.

If you have a high-flow regulator (25 or above), or any kind of welding regulator, you will almost certainly have no issue with waiting for the bag to fill, unless you have unusually high lung capacity. (As you have noted, you'll need a CGA870 for the smaller medical tanks and a CGA540 for the welding tanks.)  And (I still could be corrected on this) I don't think a DV saves any significant oxygen, since each time you inhale using the DV, you are inhaling roughly the same amount you would have inhaled from a full bag.

 

[Trent]

Hello CH Father,   

Thank you for your reply,  I understand what you mean by the High flow regulators,  they can fill a bag faster than I can use it, the timing is my complaint.

My go to O2 method currently is -  take in full lungs of O2, usually the full 3L green bad, "I could take a bit more", and then hold my breath for 5-20 seconds to absorb (depending on kip level), fully exhale all breath, even last bit crunch method.  - "I feel this gets rid of the most CO2", then immediately take in full lungs of O2.

The "wasted" O2 is from the timing variables of:

1.) holding breath to "absorb" and  2.) releasing every last bit of air on exhale (usually 10 sec process) and then immediately needing to take in more O2.   If timed correctly the bag will be full right when I am finished fully exhaling, most often it is just about full, or has been overfull for a few additional seconds, this is where I waste a little O2, more of a concern on D-size tanks.       

Why Demand Valve:

I find that I have to solely focus on my breathing deliberately and this process works for me best at 9-12l/min, my thoughts are that with a Demand valve, I can vary my Hold breath duration for as little or long as I like, and perform the exhale process as fast "pushing" or "relaxed" normal exhale, when it is time for more O2, it will be ready for a full Capacity hit.   My other thought is that I could through in a few tidal capacity inhale/exhales at start and or middle of process varied as kip level and particular attack dictate. 

Other:  I am on D3 regime, do take 5-hr Energy at first sign of hit, have had moderate success busting, get 1 or 2 6week cycles a year, turning 40 soon.  

Trent. 

 

CH Father - I received a life time ban from E-bay for ordering a regulator and trying to have it shipped to Canada a few years ago.   No opportunity to appeal as I do have an O2 Prescription. 

 

[CHfather]

You will know better than me what you want or need, and what it takes to get it.  I was just giving you my thoughts. If indeed you could handle a little more than the green bag holds, maybe DV is right for you.  Or, in the interim, you could consider doing as some have done and make your own larger bag out of an unscented small kitchen garbage bag or a turkey basting bag. 

Out of curiosity, I did just check the website of a Canadian (Vancouver-based) medical equipment supplier.  In their FAQs section, there is this: "Do I need any prescription to make a purchase?  No."  They do have a 0-25lpm 870 regulator, but only 0-15 540, and no demand valves that I see.  I went as far as I could toward checkout to see whether they asked for a prescription (maybe the FAQs omitted this category), but didn't run into it. As you say, it's quite possible that if I had fully ordered it using a Canadian address, there would be some declaration that it can't be shipped to someone in Canada . . .  Or maybe this place is more lax, and you could get your 870 here.  https://www.lifesupply.ca/  

Are there similar restrictions on welding regulators? In my opinion, that's what you'd want for the 540. As for the DV, I just looked at Amazon, and there are none offered there, which leads me to think that for some reason DVs are in fact regulated in the US. However, I know there was a person here who insisted that they had bought a DV system from a US supplier without a prescription, and you can surely find that info if you type ["demand valve"] into the search bar at the top right of the page. 

Wishing you the best. I admire your commitment to find ways to minimize your abort times.

Edited October 29, 2019 by CHfather

[xxx]

Hey Trent,

I'm impressed...  A life time ban from E-bay... Wow!  Welcome to the club...  I received a life time band from Facebook for suggesting 10,000 IU/day vitamin D3 plus the vitamin D3 cofactors was an effective preventative for migraine headache.

Given you've invested in more than sufficient numbers of M-Size and E-Size oxygen cylinders, I'd suggest a very cost effective alternative to an oxygen demand valve and regulator with DISS fittings.  It's called the Redneck Oxygen Reservoir Bag.  I made the first one from a new kitchen trash bag, a plastic soda bottle with the bottom cut off (keep the cap), oxygen tubing cut off of a disposable NRB oxygen mask at the mask end, some Duck Tape and electrician's tape.

I cut the corners off the closed end of the trash bag as illustrated above, insert the oxygen tubing in one corner and the soda body through the other corner from inside the trash bag and seal both with electrician's tape for a gas tight seal then close the open end of the trash bag with a few strips of Duck tape you'll have a very effective oxygen delivery system that only needs a 7 to 9 liter/minute oxygen regulator if you fill ahead of time and turn off the oxygen at the supply valve.  If you've taped the seams properly, the Redneck reservoir bag should stay inflated for at least 24 hours unused.  The soda bottle becomes your handle and mouthpiece for inhaling 100% oxygen.  I've found a fully inflated kitchen trash bag is good for three aborts using the following procedure and breathing technique.

The procedure I suggest involves hyperventilating at forced vital capacity tidal volumes with room air for 30 seconds followed by inhaling a lungful of oxygen from the Redneck reservoir bag and holding it for 30 seconds.  You continue repeating this sequence in rapid succession until the pain is gone.  That usually takes an average of seven complete cycles or 7 minutes.  You remove the bottle cap inhale the lungful of oxygen then replace the bottle cap.

The purpose of intentionally hyperventilating at forced vital capacity tidal volumes is to pump CO2 from the blood stream faster than the body generates it from normal metabolism.  This lowers the CO2 content of the arterial blood shifting the pH to the alkaline side of neutral (7.35 to 7.45) to a pH around 7.5 to 7.6 resulting in a temporary condition called respiratory alkalosis.  This does two things that help abort CH much faster. 

A low arterial CO2 level and elevated arterial pH triggers a rapid vasoconstriction in and around the trigeminovascular complex.  The elevated pH also increases blood hemoglobin's affinity for oxygen enabling it to carry 15% more oxygen sending hyperoxygenated arterial blood to the brain.  Oxygen triggers vasoconstriction in the trigeminovascular complex.  Hyperoxygenated arterial blood triggers vasoconstriction in an around the trigeminovascular complex even faster.  The net result is very rapid and very effective CH aborts like 99% effective in an average of 7 minutes across pain levels 3 though 9 on the 10-Point headache pain scale.

Hyperventilating at forced vital capacity tidal volumes involves exhaling forcibly and rapidly until if feels like your lungs are empty... they're not.  At that point without delay, do an abdominal crunch like doing sit ups and hold the crunch for one second or until your exhaled breath makes a wheezing sound then inhale a lungful of room air and repeat the above sequence.  You should be doing around 10 of these cycles in 30 seconds.  On the 10th exhalation, hold the crunch/squeeze for 3 seconds.  This will squeeze out an additional half to full liter of exhaled breath highest in CO2

As the guy who patented the oxygen demand valve method of rapid CH aborts in 2010, I've found the Redneck reservoir bag and the above procedures just as effective and fast as the far more expensive oxygen demand valve system and I bought the Cadillac of oxygen demand valves, the Carmét along with a Flowtec Inc, 0-60 lpm, InGage regulator with DISS fitting plus an M60 aluminum cylinder as my roadie along with a pigtail filler nfor a total cost of ~ $2100 USD in 2008.

In 2008, I conducted a pilot study of the oxygen demand valve method of aborting CH using the same breathing technique above with seven CHers (1 ECHer and 7 CCHers). They each aborted their CH with this method of procedure for 8 weeks collecting pain level and abort times for each abort.  All total, they collected this data on 366 aborts.  Their average abort time was 7 minutes and over 99% of the aborts came in at ≤ 20 minutes.  The following chart illustrates these results.

As you can see, the oxygen demand valve method of procedure produced aborts 3 to 4 times faster than traditional oxygen therapy at a flow rate of 15 liters/minute. Now here's the payoff...  The Redneck Reservoir bag method of aborting CH is just as effective in aborting CH as the oxygen demand valve method.  If you'll look at the photo of my oxygen kit you'll see a sticker on the oxygen cylinder with check marks indicating 30 aborts, the average number of aborts I obtained with an M-Size Oxygen or Welder's cylinder with the oxygen demand valve.  As the copay for each M-Size oxygen cylinder was $30 USD, that works out to $1/CH abort.  I got nearly 300 aborts from an M-Size welder's cylinder using the Redneck Reservoir bag method so that makes the cost per abort roughly 10 cents USD.

All that said, I developed the anti-inflammatory regimen CH preventative treatment protocol with 10,000 IU/day vitamin D3, Omega-3 Fish Oil and the vitamin D3 cofactors,  magnesium, zinc, boron and vitamin A (retinol) in October of 2010. I was CH pain free following the second dose of this regimen.  I've been CH pain free ever since.  You can find the anti-inflammatory regimen CH preventative treatment protocol at the following link.

http://www.vitamindwiki.com/tiki-download_wiki_attachment.php?attId=7708

Take care and please keep us posted.

V/R, Batch

 

 

Edited October 29, 2019 by Batch

[Trent]

If ordering from a Canadian site I have not had too much difficulty getting O2 supplies, the trouble arises when I try to source from the US.   FDA Approval ect.  

I do have a welding regulator for my big tanks, trans fill hoses, and a few 870's, just none with the Diss outlet yet.   

No restrictions on getting Welding supplies locally.   

[Trent]

Thank you Batch,  

I had read about the Redneck bag before on Clusterheadaches.com , I have incorporated the hyperventilate method from time to time.   My main take away was getting CO2 out and absorbing O2 in.   I figure I could have another 10-20yrs of attacks ahead of me so the cost isn't deterring me from the Demand Valve.    Also a little safer around the house, with kids ect.  

For others reading, The hyperventilation method can also help if you do not have O2 with varying success.   

[xxx]

Trent,

I haven't used my oxygen kit since I developed and started taking the anti-inflammatory regimen on 10 October of 2010 except for demonstrations.  The aluminum M60, Flotec Inc InGage® 0-60 lpm regulator with DISS fitting and Carnét oxygen demand valve sit unused under a plastic bag in the laundry room.  There's still over 1000 psi left in the M-Size welder's cylinder in the garage I picked up in August 2010. We live out in the woods with plenty of logging equipment so I actually do some oxy-acetylene cutting and welding.

There's no question that an oxygen demand valve system makes for rapid, reliable and very simple CH aborts.  That said, it is only an abortive. Since starting the anti-inflammatory regimen in October of 2010,  I've found life a lot more enjoyable waking up in the morning after a night of CH pain free sleep.  I can even take combat naps thanks to the vitamin D3...

Take care and please keep us posted.

V/R, Batch

 

[Bass1802]

Thank you Batch for the incredible info. Just recently, 5 days ago, diagnosed CH  I just got my first bottles of D3 and Magnesium to start taking. Unfortunately I spent my $ on O2 from my local welding supply and tracked dwn an adult Mask that I sorta converted before I read your post about the regimen. I plan on getting the rest of your list ASAP.  Does any research show that D3 and Magnesium alone curb attacks? I’m moving on now to make the redneck reservoir bag to try it. 

[Racer1_NC]

1 hour ago, Bass1802 said:

Thank you Batch for the incredible info. Just recently, 5 days ago, diagnosed CH  I just got my first bottles of D3 and Magnesium to start taking. Unfortunately I spent my $ on O2 from my local welding supply and tracked dwn an adult Mask that I sorta converted before I read your post about the regimen. I plan on getting the rest of your list ASAP.  Does any research show that D3 and Magnesium alone curb attacks? I’m moving on now to make the redneck reservoir bag to try it. 

I attribute my PF status to D3. Took time....more than I would have thought but it appears to be working....and has been for a while now.

My personal, for what it's worth, recommendation is to have O2 set up and ready all the time.....a safety net. A good mask from clusterheadaches.com and a 25 lpm reg does the trick for many.

[Bass1802]

Thank you for the knowledge Racer1_NC

[CHfather]

Philip', I don't see anything at the site you linked to above that relates to any kind of oxygen or oxygen-related equipment.