Jump to content
ClusterBusters
Sign in to follow this  
Professor_Tanaka

Psilo...

Recommended Posts

... and a potentially silly thought regarding it.

We want BOL...  LSD with a Bromine atom attached. 

Discussing the Psilocybin molecule with someone recently he noted the portion of the LSD molecule where the Bromine atom attaches is identical to the Psilo molecule.  I asked 'Why would Bromo-Psilo not be similar to BOL?'.

This my dumb question of the day.. Is Bromo-Psilo feasible?

Any thoughts on that?

The precursor of Psilo is quite a bit more readily available than the precursor to BOL, obviously. 

(I forgot everything I ever learned in Chem.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't see  why that wouldn't work.  You could double the dose with the bromine atom attached.  LSD seems to have a little more kick then psilo but not an issue if the dose is increased.

At this point anything that could be made legal would be great it doesn't matter if it is LSD, LSA, Psilo,  mdma, DMT or anything that would help...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest theraginasian

I think your real issue would be how to brominate it. And really, is it Psilocybin or Psilocin that helps us? We get to Psilocin when our gut starts processing Psilocybin, and it would seem that we would need our guts to somehow add the bromine during digestion (without causing any sort of other effects, if it's even possible!)

However, both have the indole ring we like so much, so perhaps BOTH may be helpful. However, hear me out, this is why I think LSD ends up being more effective for people: If it ends up that Psilocin, the psychoactive by-product of your stomach + psilocybin, what if Psilocin, not psilocybin is the only thing actually acting on the 5HT Serotonin Receptor, since that's what makes you trip? In the bromo case, you have a substance that otherwise would fit perfectly into 5HT, but is too fat because of the Bromine. So basically, what actually enters 5HT? Psilocybin, Psilocin, or both? Then, from there, you would know which you would need to try and brominate (if possible). Then again, a chemist could really tell us if were wasting our time...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ricardo?????? Resident fount of knowledge needs to appear here and inform us of issues and positives with this approach. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Psilocybin (O-phosphoryl-4-hydroxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine) is a prodrug that is converted into the pharmacologically active compound psilocin in the body by dephosphorylation.[2] This chemical reaction takes place under strongly acidic conditions or enzymatically by phosphatases in the body.

The issue of adding a bromine atom to ether Psilocybin or Psilocin is not an issue as Psilocybin is broke down into Psilocin.   I would think it would be easier to use Psilocybin as it is a stable compound compared to psilocin.   Psilocin breaks down very quickly,  but I am not a chemist and which ever is used I am sure it will be synthetic so I don't know if a lab can make a stable version of it and I have no idea how attaching a Bromine atom will effect it.

I think your real issue would be how to brominate it. And really, is it Psilocybin or Psilocin that helps us? We get to Psilocin when our gut starts processing Psilocybin, and it would seem that we would need our guts to somehow add the bromine during digestion (without causing any sort of other effects, if it's even possible!)

However, both have the indole ring we like so much, so perhaps BOTH may be helpful. However, hear me out, this is why I think LSD ends up being more effective for people: If it ends up that Psilocin, the psychoactive by-product of your stomach + psilocybin, what if Psilocin, not psilocybin is the only thing actually acting on the 5HT Serotonin Receptor, since that's what makes you trip? In the bromo case, you have a substance that otherwise would fit perfectly into 5HT, but is too fat because of the Bromine. So basically, what actually enters 5HT? Psilocybin, Psilocin, or both? Then, from there, you would know which you would need to try and brominate (if possible). Then again, a chemist could really tell us if were wasting our time...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest theraginasian

I think the final and real issue is, even if you find that this is possible, you'll end up in the same $10 million Phase II boat that BOL-148 is in. After seeing Dr. Halpern's presentation at the conference, this would simply distract from what we already know: Bromo works, would be cheap to make, and we would get crazy over-charged by the Pharma that decides to even make it. What a bummer.

Hey, thanks though, was fun to think about the chemistry of it for a bit!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Back in February Purple posted this:

Thus, at the University of Caen, the team of Valerie Collot, professor of pharmacognosy (the study of medicines derived from animal or vegetable), is working on the development of analogs of psilocybin that would allow to set free from the hallucinogenic effects while improving memory. She says: "Our interest goes back in 2009, when an article by a Japanese team had shown that activation of certain serotonin receptors enhanced the memory." It so happens that these receptors, type 5-HT2C , have a strong affinity with psilocybin. The art of the Lower Normandy team will now be to synthesize compounds that mimic this affinity without presenting yet another one for the 5-HT2A receptor, which appears to be involved in the "a little more embarrassing."  hallucinogenic effects.

This type of chemistry is complex, because you have to find ligands both potent and selective, which do not interfere with other, and numerous, serotonin receptors,. "In mice, early results are quite encouraging, says the researcher. But to pass to humans, it will take several years of study. "

Test compounds are not derived from psilocybin. "We synthesize them in five or six steps, then we optimize them." Is there a risk of falling on a hallucinogenic compound? "It is always possible, but I have not seen any particular effects on people who handle them. "All operations are done under vacuumed hood, so for one to expose oneself to the products like didn't hesitate to do Albert Hofmann - the creator of LSD, who also isolated psilocybin in the late 1950s - it should be wanting . "Early in my career I have experienced supervisors who tasted their prod ucts," said Valerie Collot. But she assures this "is ancient history."

So there are people working on non-hallucinogenic versions of psilocybin...unfortunately there is absolutely no info that can I can find, anywhere at all, on this. Maybe we should write to the University of Caen and see if we can get a little more info.

Something to remember though, is that it may not be a miracle drug.  Many people have found DMT to work very well for their clusters, which makes you wonder if a non-hallucinogenic version of DMT would work for us---but we have it and it sucks.  It's called Sumatriptan, which you could also call "Sulphonated" DMT, or DMT with a sulfur molecule added on to it to make it "non-hallucinogenic"   

  Two substances that have grabbed my attention are CEY-19 and CZ-74, analogs of psilocybin that are hallucinogenic but don't last as long as psilocybin.  If we can ever get feds to let us have hallucinatory drugs, this is what I would bet on.  Mostly because it would allow them to treat us without actually admitting that a substance that they have deemed to have "no medicinal value" actually saves lives.

-Ricardo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good to see your post Ricardo. :)

That 'no medicinal value' thingy is what needs to go! ::)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Something to remember though, is that it may not be a miracle drug.  Many people have found DMT to work very well for their clusters, which makes you wonder if a non-hallucinogenic version of DMT would work for us---but we have it and it sucks.  It's called Sumatriptan, which you could also call "Sulphonated" DMT, or DMT with a sulfur molecule added on to it to make it "non-hallucinogenic" 

After thinking about it again, Sumatriptan has saved my ass more time than I can count....  The more options the better!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On a followup note... it has been done by a crew in Japan about 10 years ago...

http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/pdf/chempharmbull.50.92.2002.pdf

Specifically...

Shows 5-bromo, 7-bromo, & 5,7-dibromo as the results, all unstable. 

They acetylated them, yielding stable

4-acetoxy-5-bromo-N,N-dimethyltryptamine

&

4-acetoxy-7-bromo-N,N-dimethyltryptamine

How important is the OH versus an OAc to us as a treatment?  I dunno. 

Looks as though it took them a few tries to get the bromination to work.  They provide very nice detail.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×