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Vickle

Not enough 02

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What do you do when 25lpm is not enough?  I'm sucking that thing dry tonight.  Desperate for that bag to fill faster. 

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Vickle, here are a bunch of thoughts, all iffy, all of which would benefit from input from others.

Do you have an O2ptimask -- more capacity in the bag.

I see that there are 9 used demand valves for sale at ebay.  It looks sketchy -- sold as is, no returns.  $100 plus $10 for regular shipping.  Can't say if it's a worthwhile risk or not.  (If you go this way, you'll need to have a DISS fitting on your regulator. See below)  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Used-LIFE-SUPPORT-PRODUCTS-INC-DEMAND-VALVE-SWITCH-L063-05R-WITH-HOSE-AND-MASK/161085791809?_trksid=p2045573.m2042&_trkparms=aid%3D111000%26algo%3DREC.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D27%26meid%3D1468536138082648837%26pid%3D100033%26prg%3D1011%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D3%26sd%3D300946941177%26

I think I remember that Flotec sells a regulator that goes up to 60 lpm.  You could call them: Telephone: (317) 273-6960

This I am also not positive about, but the welding oxygen regulator sold through Harbor Freight (www.harborfreight.com) has no lpm settings.  It will go up pretty high in lpms, although I don't know whether that's higher than 25.  Hopefully, some others who use that regulator can tell you that.  (Any welding O2 regulator would probably work, but the Harbor Freight one is the only one I know of that comes with a barbed fitting adapter.  I was told at the conference that you can buy the adapter separately, maybe even at a standard hardware store, but I have never tried to do that.)

DISS fitting (the connection in front on this photo, in addition to the usual barbed fitting for the mask tubing)

DISS.jpg

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I like what CHf has said - but hey I always like what CHF has said.  8-)

Conversely I HATE hearing about your current O2 situation Vickie so I'll pipe in too.

I'm afraid I have historically been the same way, 25 LPM isn't enough. I also learned that this need for flows above 25 LPM is fairly common.

If I had my last cycle (back before I was busting) to do over O2-wise I would've gotten a demand valve system. When you get into the high flows, sucking the O2 tank dry can be a serious, recurring issue indeed, but the demand valve only releases the O2 on inhale, shuts completely off on exhale, conserving the O2 in a major way.

Plus it'll simply supply as much O2 as you can inhale, period, with no need to mess around with LPM settings and krap.

If for some reason you can't get the demand valve and have to keep investing in cruder regulator/mask systems, well with advice from other CH'ers I was able to cobble together a rig using a 60 LPM flotec regulator (which I would often set to 45 LPM), and I replaced the reservoir bag on my mask with (I'm not kidding here) a 32 gallon trash bag that could handle my intentional hyperventilation. Crude, a hassle, inefficient and unsightly as hell, yes, but it got me plenty of O2.

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Something that might help in the short run . . . I remember that when the bb was doing his part of the O2 demo at the conference, he suggested that if you have to wait for the bag to refill, hold the O2 in your lungs while the bag is refilling (rather than exhaling and then waiting).  Pretty sure I'm remembering that correctly.

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Something that might help in the short run . . . I remember that when the bb was doing his part of the O2 demo at the conference, he suggested that if you have to wait for the bag to refill, hold the O2 in your lungs while the bag is refilling (rather than exhaling and then waiting).  Pretty sure I'm remembering that correctly.

You are correct......that can help.....

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Thanks.  I'm glad to have that confirmed by an actual expert.

Do you have an opinion about the lpm that is available from that Harbor Freight regulator you mentioned?  I know it doesn't have a gauge, but if it's opened up all the way, do you figure you're getting as much as 50-60lpm?

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I could not find specs on flow rates but... cutting torches depend on a high pressure "jet" of oxygen to blow the melted metal out of the cut (you pull a leaver to blow the O2)... It is quite a bit of gas. Others can chime in here, but I doubt you could keep up with it on full out settings.

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I have been using the Harbor Freight reg for several years now....when used for its intended purpose, the gauge on the right registers the total pressure in the cylinder ( 2000 psi in a fully charged M tank)....with the O2 knob in an OFF position on the cutting torch, the valve on top of the cyl turned on, and the pressure adjust turnkey on the reg in an OFF position ( fully counter clockwise ), the reading on the output gauge on the left will read 0 psi....as you dial the turnkey clockwise that reading increases to your desired setting.... However, with an optimask attached the left gauge will continue to register 0 psi so I don't know how you would go about converting psi to lpm.....

....all that bein said, if I dial in more than 1 1/2 turns ( very low pressure considering how much more could be dialed in) the bag refills to the point of O2 escaping from the mouthpiece before I can completely exhale.

Having gone to welding OX from a med OX E tank with a 15 psi regulator, I would guess with this setting, I'm getting at least twice the flow rate with the welding rig.

DD

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Do you have an opinion about the lpm that is available from that Harbor Freight regulator you mentioned?  I know it doesn't have a gauge, but if it's opened up all the way, do you figure you're getting as much as 50-60lpm?

I wouldn't want to mess with an individual that could out run a HF reg......  ;)

Seriously I think that would supply anyone with enough O2 though I don't have a flow rating for the unit. There is no direct conversion from PSI to LPM. I supposed we could measure it but as long as the reg supplies more than needed, I don't see a need to worry with it.

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as the reg supplies more than needed, I don't see a need to worry with it. 
  Right.  Thanks to all of you for your input.

 

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Thank you all for your amazing advice and knowledge.  I do have the opti mask.  Demand valve is next on my list of purchases.  I will try holding o2 in my lungs while bag re inflates.  Funny, when I first started using 02, I hated the mask on my face.  Now I like it, a comforting feeling.  Thanks again everyone. 

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CHfather...thank you especially for figuring it all out for me.  My brain is mush right now. 

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I'm just passing on what the others here have taught me.  Thankful every day for all the folks who make the time to share their knowledge and support.  (Since you like the mask now, this is probably unimportant, and you probably know it anyway, but the O2ptimask does come with a breathing tube attachment, too.)

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Funny, when I first started using 02, I hated the mask on my face.  Now I like it, a comforting feeling.  Thanks again everyone.  

I am going to quote myself from a different post...

Oxygen Administration: When I first got the optimask I switched to using just the mouth piece. I was happy to finally have all the O2 I wanted (bigger bag). While out of town I noticed I was blowing through more O2 than usual and getting slow results. I remembered how I used to think the negative pressure created in my sinuses by using the mask and sucking through both nose and mouth seemed to “pull” the pain out. Even the gentle tug created by the bag running dry was soothing. When I got home I put on the mask and found that the resistance or “pull” was greater with the optimask and it felt perfect, however the pressure from the resistance when exhaling through the mask was to great… going in the wrong direction. I think this is why I chose the mouth piece when I first got it. I began using the mask to inhale, removing it to exhale. The result was faster aborts with less O2. This may be a personal thing, but it made a difference to me. I got to have that soothing sinus cavity suckage!

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Well I tried the nasal cannula last night as a preventative.  3lpm.  After the second hit I bumped it to 5 but the air jetting up my nostril seems to have set off another attack.

On the up side, I revisited my breathing tequnique and aborted hits after 10 mins.  One was aborted after less than 5.  I <3 02. :-*

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Well I tried the nasal cannula last night as a preventative.

I am surprised, yet pleased, that the nose canula worked for you, especially at such a low flow rate.  BUT, to increase its efficiency, (you might want to wash, and clean it first, LOL) don't put it in your nose, put it in your mouth.  With it in your mouth, you can seal your lips around it, and insure that you get 100% oxygen, and none of the surrounding air, like you would, with it in your nose.

I have passed this information on to lots of people, when, in an emergency, they couldn't get their hands on a non-rebreather mask.

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Hi. This is my first post. I just bought a non-rebreather mask from this site. I will use it with my O2 machine which I have set @ 8 lpm. Do you think it is worth it for me to get a O2 tank so I can increase my lpm? 8 lpm seems to work if I catch it in time and it's not one of those bad ones that are not effected by O2 either way?

Thank you all for being here!

... I would also like more info on the BRO-LSD drug test/trials. Does anybody have any info. Or am I on the wrong board for this...If I am... sorry...I'm new

Thanks again! 

Sweet

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Do you think it is worth it for me to get a O2 tank so I can increase my lpm?

Hi Sweet, I do think it would be worthwhile - you could very well abort even the bad ones with a high enough LPM. Personally I tend to think of 15 LPM as a minimum for a starter set up (this may require getting a higher flow regulator than a given O2 supplies company will have on hand).

Then again since you've been having some success with the machine, you may just find 12 LPM [of 100% O2 from a tank] to be effective.....

You're on the right board for discussion of BOL-LSD trials, but I'm afraid I'm not up on the latest there.

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Sweet,

The company that's providing you with the machine (a "concentrator") should also be able and willing to give you tanks and a regulator that will go to at least 15 lpm.  It's hard to imagine why you wouldn't want tanks--the only two reasons I can think of are (1) maybe tanks would cost more and/or (2) tanks run out and have to be refilled, whereas the concentrator just keeps going.  But even at 12 lpm (if your concentrator goes that high), you're not getting the same amount of O2 as you get from a tank, because the O2 from a tank is pretty much 100% O2, while the O2 made by the concentrator has some room air mixed in.  Plus, concentrators are typically pretty loud, which can be an extra irritation when you're dealing with an attack.  Not to mention that the concentrator is not portable. You can take a small tank in your car, to where you work, or other places.   

In short -- heck, yes, you want a tank.  Like Jeebs said, you'll abort stronger attacks more successfully (and other attacks considerably faster).  You want multiple tanks, in fact--at least one big ("M") tank and one smaller ("E") tank. 

You want tanks, as Jeebs likes to say, "toot sweet," Sweet.

Have you tried an energy drink or energy shot (or at least a strong cup of coffee) to knock back an attack?  Drink it at the first sign.

As for BOL, not quite sure what you're looking for.  No clinical trials underway right now.  We're told that maybe there might be some pretty soon (but we've been told that a lot).  We're also told that if there aren't any within the next six months or so, there might not be any for a long time.  The company with the BOL patent is Entheogen (www.entheogencorp.com).  If you go there and sign up, you'll be informed (we are told) of any trials that get started (pay no attention to what it says on the home page about BOL "undergoing clinical trials").  Or if you just check back here regularly, I'm sure CB will be among the first to know if trials get started.  If you were looking for info about past trials, there's a link on the "Exploration" page at the Entheogen website.

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Well I tried the nasal cannula last night as a preventative.  3lpm.  After the second hit I bumped it to 5 but the air jetting up my nostril seems to have set off another attack.

On the up side, I revisited my breathing tequnique and aborted hits after 10 mins.  One was aborted after less than 5.  I <3 02. :-*

I am not aware of anyone successfully using O2 as a preventative while sleeping... I know I have tried it as well as many others here. I don't remember the exact biological details (could look it up, there is a lot that actually takes place), but it goes something like this... you need to simply hyperventilate pure O2 to get the necessary chemical changes to take place in your body. It is not a lack of oxygen we are fighting here! But, by going from a normal state to saturation quickly, we get that chemical change that works to abort headaches (vasoconstriction effects mainly). My attempts to sleep with it on did nothing, except possibly make it harder to get the effect needed when I finally was awakened and went full blast with the mask.

To sum it up... you need an oxygen attack to kill the CH attack. Lesser amounts will do nothing for an attack, whether in the attack or not. Trying to maintain the saturation effects is, if not impossible, dangerous.

Just my observations.

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Diamondmaker,

You are absolutely right.  It was worth a shot.  After trying it different ways, I concede, the nasal cannula is a fail.  Was worth the try for $5. 

I have an M tank and D tanks.  So I think a demand valve will be the next investment.

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