Lieutenant2

Anthony. . .I'd be real hesitant to take GABA with melatonin. I don't have any real scientific evidence for this, but they both work in the same garage, so to speak. I don't know what it will do, but I look at it like the old football cliche from Paul Brown: when you throw a pass, three things can happen, and two of them are bad. Bonkers, please post an update. . .I'm anxious to see if he gets a decent night of sleep, if nothing else. I'm trying to gather some info from people who have tried this, to find some commonalities.

Jeff, Excellent post and a very timely reminder of what I think I posted way up there ^ somewhere. Now is a great time for me to reiterate: My experiment with GABA is just that, an experiment, and I have done some ridiculous amounts of research into its effects. That is definitely why I mentioned that I am doing a "clean" experiment with it; no meds, no supplements, no abortives, no preventives, no Flintstones chewy vitamins, no nothing. I have absolutely no clue how GABA might interact with anything else. Another important thing to not is that I consider GABA to be ONLY a nighttime before bed once a day supplement, not an abortive and not to be taken at the onset of an attack (I have a theory that it could actually make an attack worse). And yes, the niacin flush described is a possibility, along with the potential for labored respiratory function. I haven't experienced any of this, and I'm guessing it only happens in very high doses. Meathead bodybuilders take GABA in doses up to and above 10 grams to boost HGH. Lallangoti, please keep me posted. . .if you haven't taken the GABA on an empty stomach before sleep, I strongly suggest doing so.

I'm glad you saw what I saw in all that chemistry and gibberish! Nothing in there about CH or even serotonin/hypothalmus disorders, but just a lot of stuff that sounded really familiar to me. Jacked-up sleep patterns, scattered thoughts, etc. I think my CH is a total domino effect from all of this. Others probably have different causes, but I sincerely hope some of you are exactly like me. I need more guinea pigs!

Hey Mystina. . .thanks for the added info! If you don't mind me asking a few questions, I'd like to use your experience to help isolate some variables: Were you taking just pure GABA, or was it one of the bonded combinations, like picamilon? What was the dosage? How and when were you taking it? What other meds/supplements were you taking at the time? Anything that also functioned on neurotransmitters or receptors? I'm not trying to be nosy, I just want to learn more about what may or may not work with the GABA. Thank you! Another restful night, after a total of three beers and two small glasses of wine yesterday. Heading out to the beach to watch thunderstorm roll in over the ocean.

Koctail, looking forward to your report. I definitely felt the effects at 1.5g, then upped it to 2.25g. RazorPP, very curious about your dosage. How much are you taking? Empty stomach, especially with no proteins? Anthony. . .not a dumb question at all for us non-metric Yankees. There are 1000 miligrams in 1 gram. Therefore, if you have 500mg capsules, two of them would be 1g. Frankly, I suggest taking at least four of them (2g). For a variety of reasons, mainly due to metabolism, absorption, and the blood/brain thing, effective doses seem to start there. Very glad others are starting to experiment with this. . .I don't feel like a complete kook anymore!

PS - Spiny, I'm sorry I ignored one of your questions last night. I'm at the beach for a week and using my Droid, hard to read the forum! As for research on GABA, there really is none relating to CH. I'm in uncharted territory here. Its main use has been for anxiety, with mixed results. For starters, check out the wikipedia article. It does a decent job explaining how GABA functions as an inhibitory neurotransmitter. I started from there, and becan searching medical journals, naturopathic forums, etc. I'll post some when I get back to a normal computer. Anthony, I wish I had an answer for you, but I'm not sure how this might function with the D3 regimen. I don't know much about that, or its mechanism. If it's designed to be a vascular treatment, GABA shouldn't overlap at all. It has no effect on blood vessels or anything else physical, it's just a neurotransmitter. Maybe someone who is well versed in the D3 thing could shed some light, but I don't think trying it would hurt anything, at the very least. Another night of sleep, another day with no CH.

Just a quick update. . .since my last post, it's been two more days 100% pain free. The few "shadows" I was having went away when I upped the dosage to 2.25g. And Spiny, not at all. . .GABA is readily available (except in England, for some reason). I bought the Now brand from iHerb, mainly because I wanted high dosage capsules, and it was cheap $9 for what is a month supply at 2.25g/day. I'm guessing you can find it at most supplement stores, just make sure it's pure GABA. It's an ingredient in a lot of those "brain formulas", but you don't want all the other stuff. For the record, my Christmas day started at my usual 5am, included two flights, with a glass of wine in between, and now I'm sitting here having another glass of wine. I wouldn't dare do that a month ago!

Just a quick update, another 24 hours without any hint of CH. I am doing the family Christmas thing this week, so I admit to having a bit of alcohol yesterday. 2.25g seems to be the right amount, as I was only getting shadows with the 1.5g. No real side effects to speak of, just a strange sense of focus (almost too much focus, abstract thoughts are all but impossible). But good REM sleep, easy wake-up, no hangovers. I know a couple other people are about to try this, hopefully we'll have more anecdotal evidence on here soon.

I'm going to keep this short, if it generates any interest, I will be happy to elaborate more and/or answer any questions. But here we go: A few weeks ago, I intentionally let me last bust "wear off". RC seeds work for me, but I've always wanted to get to the next level of this thing, rather than blocking receptors. . .I started doing a ton of research on the actual brain signals/neurotransmissions that might be at fault. Long story short, I let the beast come all the way back because I wanted a "clean" test of a few things I wanted to try. So, once I was back to full-blown CH (I'm chronic, so there's no off-season) I was getting crushed twice at night, and 2-3 times per day, using no abortives at all. . .it was time to start my trials. GABA (gama-aminobutyric acid) is an inhibitory neurotransmitter that essentially cancels out Beta brain waves (that's a huge oversimplification, but I'm keeping this short). The controversy with GABA surrounds the idea that it doesn't cross the blood/brain barrier, so there are other forms (like picamilon) that are formulated to do just that. I started taking 1.5g of GABA on an empty stomach at 9pm (two 750mg capsules). No other supplements, no vitamins, no diet change, no other variables. My results are as follows: Day 1 - pain free Day 2 - pain free Day 3 - "shadow" at 8pm after drinking three 11% beers, lasted approx. 20 minutes Day 4 - pain free Day 5 - pain free Day 6 - pain free Day 7 - shadow at approx. 9am Day 8 - pain free Day 9 - shadow/maybe K2 at 10am; increased dosage at night to 2.25g Day 10 - today. . .pain free so far I have about 60 hours of research tied up in this, no need to go into further detail, but it's out there if you want it. I believe CHers all have different causes, triggers, etc. Mine are directly related to sleep cycles and brain activity at inappropriate times, so I sought out GABA. If anybody else is willing to give it a shot and/or would like to learn more, feel free to ask questions.

Well, Spiny. . .I stand corrected. Looks like I'm the only simpleton who went through 13+ different experiments to get this thing under control! I guess everyone else went straight from mind-crushing headache to ClusterBusters. . .I wish I had been so damn lucky (or smart!) At any rate, my point stands. . .screw the medical community and/or any "miracle cures" that may be out there. We have something that works, and I'm not gonna wait for Merck to synthesize it and sell it back to me for $400.

There is no reason to fit in the bouts of headaches, they can be wiped out pretty quickly. The right preventive (LSA, for me) and the right abortive (energy shots for me, O2 for many) and the beast is about as harmless as a seasonal allergy. And I'm fairly confident that my job is a bit more intense than most.

I will probably pester you until you find a good preventive, like RC or psilo. Only because I (and everyone else here) has been right there in your shoes. O2 is a great abortive. But why sit around and wait for a hit, endure that pain, and wait for the oxygen to kick in? You can prevent it in the first place. . .bust your cycle totally, or prevent your cycle from starting. Get those seeds and JUST DO IT!!!

Prednisone will do more damage than the CH ever will. Stay far, far away from that stuff. (I know you didn't ask for opinions on pred, but I'm sharing mine anyway!) Time to take action. Get yourself some RC seeds, follow the directions on this website, and get your life back. It is that simple. Doctors can not do jack-dookie-squat for you.

I won't lie, I keep mine in the freezer. It works just fine, and there's generally no danger of accidentally sprinkling them into soup or anything like that. 500 RC seeds would make for one hell of a gumbo, though.

Save your first message on this thread, you will come back and laugh at it sometime soon. You're doing the right thing by taking matters into your own hands. Doctors aren't going to help you. It's not their fault. They just can't. There are a bunch of things to try here, including the D3 regimen, licorice tincture, etc. However, my advice to you is: Get those RC seeds, crush up 50 of them, soak them in cold mint tea for a few hours, and chug it down. It's really that simple. You'll have a few aftershocks, things will seem strange for a day, and the CH will have changed. Make sure you're "clean" for at least a few days, I think it does make a difference. And don't forget, there is plenty of help here!

Les, I will personally and publicly thank you for both this research and for bringing this treatment to us so many months ago (and for answering the 1000 questions that ensued!) I will be downloading this file for a little light reading on my flight to Salt Lake City, but I wanted to share my experience with licorice since that last thread. The 3x/day solution helped me a bit, but wasn't the ticket to complete relief. However, I remember somewhere in there the mention of using licorice sublingually as an abortive, so I tried that. Surprisingly, I got some noticeable results. So I started experimenting. Long story short, my most effective abortive has been to swallow 1000mg of powdered taurine in solution, then hold a few drops of licorice tincture under my tongue for 5 minutes or so. I don't know much about the mechanism for this, but I do know it works wonders, especially about four weeks after a "bust" when the monster is just starting to creep back. So now I've been experimenting with another licorice concoction. If one RC-seed "bust" wipes out CH for a month, why can't I space out the RC dosing (smaller doses, 1x per week) and keep the monster away indefinitely? So really, I'm searching for the magic combination of abortive + preventive. For the past two weeks, I've been grinding up about 10 RC seeds in a pepper mill, and mixing the resulting "dust" with just enough licorice extract to make a paste. I let it sit for an hour or so, then put the whole mess under my tongue and keep it there for 15 minutes or so. My normal month of peace was just coming to an end when I tried this for the first time. So far, I've done this three times in about 17 days, and I'm still relatively pain-free. Just some brief shadows easily aborted by the aforementioned taurine/sublingual licorice combo. Not sure what I'm really trying to accomplish, other than to spread the "bust" out across a longer period at lower doses by ingesting it in a different way, and by introducing licorice to the equation as an added boost. The science is way above my head, but the effect (so far) is what I was hoping for. I think we've only scratched the surface of what licorice can do, what RC can do, and our dosing methods. But I digress. . .THANKS, LES!

Drinking chlorine dioxide? I'm gonna take a pass on that. I'm no chemist, but in the system, that's going to become. . .what. . .bleach and air bubbles? BLECH!

Brad, I hope you're doing some reading. It's safe to say that every single person here has been exactly where you are now at some point. I considered every drastic measure imaginable, including surgery, steroids, you name it. Relax, read up, and do some experimentation. The solutions you'll find here are safe, effective, and inexpensive. There is no cure, but I went from 24/7 misery to basically laughing at these things now. You'll be just fine very soon.

For what it's worth, I was worried to death about getting hit on a recent flight from JFK to London, 6+ hours of air time (overnight, too. . .and screwing with my sleep cycles has always been my #1 trigger). So I took a moderate dose of RC (about 35 seeds) two days before the flight (to give things a chance to settle, get the aftershocks out of the way, etc.) I also packed two energy shots (the 2oz things) in my carry-on. All energy shots are not created equal, check the ingredients for minimal sugar and maximum taurine. Those "Stacker 2 Xtra Energy" ones they sell at the dollar store are actually very good. Made it through that flight with no problems, as well as the much longer Manchester-Chicago flight a week later. Your mileage may vary.

So, all this time I've spent as a vegetarian and avoiding all dairy products, AND getting kicked in the a$$ by cluster headaches, must make me either a total freak of nature. . .or maybe. . .

In addition to all of the above, avoid SMELLING it. The sense of taste is directly linked to smell, if you avoid sticking your nose in the cup or inhaling through your nose while drinking the RC mess, it won't be nearly as bad. It's mostly mental, really.

Yes. And plenty of sources are listed on this site, all pretty reliable.

Just throwing in my $0.02, since I also developed these things when I was 38, and spent an awful lot of time figuring out what they were and how to treat them: Be cautious of what your doctor prescribes. I promise you, there is nothing he can do to cure your CH. Nothing. I wish I were lying, but I'm not. He may try verapimil, prednisone, yadda yadda yadda. They won't stop your CH, and the side effects could be devastating. The O2 set-up you need is, unfortunately, different than what your mother had. You'll need an extremely high-flow set-up. And while I'm not an oxygen user myself, there is plenty of information here. Consider the small energy "shots" as an abortive. Just make sure they contain at least 1000mg of taurine. They taste awful, but they're only 2oz. I feel that downing one right at the onset of symptoms really helps take the edge off. Read, read, read. . .all of the information available here on various forms of busting. Everyone has different reactions to different treatments, so you'll have to experiment. In my case, a fairly high dose of RC (100 seeds) followed by a daily regimen of St. John's Wort has kept the beast away for over a month. You will need to find your happy place with this. It might not be a bad idea to get rid of all triggers and get as healthy as possible, too. Not to be preachy, but you're fighting a strong enemy. Quitting smoking, eating right, exercising daily. . .all of these things will help you be stronger than the CH. Best of luck!!

PS - C'mon, Bonkers. . .I'm not looking that old YET! That is the great Mr. Hopper, from the Blue Velvet days.

Thanks, fellas. . .just a little background info, SJW gets studied extensively for its ability to aid in clinical depression, and most studies have proven it to be as effective (or more effective) than the chemicals from big pharma. Indications are that it works like a SSRI, and also functions as an MAOI in higher dosages. Now, understanding that there are more depressed people than clusterheads, that's where the research goes. . .but they don't have a monopoly on serotonin problems! So, being very confident that my post-busting "blips" were nothing more than serotonin irregularities, I figured it was worth a shot. Bottom line, I haven't even had a shadow in a long time, and I don't plan to. I am taking absolutely no other supplements, not even a vitamin. There is a boatload of reading material out there, most of it pertaining to depression studies. But I'd encourage those of you considering this experiment to pay attention to the data on SJW's SSRI properties. Here's a basic overview, with a couple clinical studies linked. . . http://www.aafp.org/afp/2005/1201/p2249.html