ThatHurtsMyHead Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 All, So I've thought about a demand O2 system for quite a while now. Given that Oxygen works quite well for me, just seems an easier and less wastefull system to use a demand valve. I just read in another thread they are $350 and up for demand valves. I have to say... WOW... That's incredibly expensive for something that only has 2 moving parts. I'm an avid diver and all SCUBA regulators are demand valves for use with high pressure. The only real difference is regulators have to be "o2 clean" or built and cleaned with special materials that do not react with 100% oxygen. Just a hypothetical question, but if someone could make them at a more reasonable price, if enough people would want them? Just wondering... Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bejeeber Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 When I was at the July OUCH conference, The Lifegas people were saying the problem was with quantities of scale, because so far basically 2 people and 1 dog or something are expressing real interest in one. I think there could be a bigger 'demand' for them from us CH'ers if the O2 info at ch.com wasn't sort of writing demand valve systems off with a brief mention of them as Rolls Royces, with all the how to info dedicated to high flow regulators and optimasks. $350 is expensive? Well yeah OK for some of us (like me at this moment) it is, but compared to the cost of prescriptions such as imitrex or ER visits it's a huge no brainer IMO for anyone who can possibly swing it to get one. I won't be surprised if attendees of this weekend's conference will come back with some more up to date info on demand valves that will render my blabbing here obsolete. And as far as cost is concerned, I think another thing to keep in mind is we'd need significantly less O2 tank refill$, since the way it's been described to me at least, with a demand valve the O2 doesn't just blast out incessantly while you're on it - only during inhales. If someone could actually offer a cheap demand valve, that would be freekin' great IMO. 8-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clustermom13 Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 Unfortunately, Jeebs, the info at the conference was about the same with regard to cost. Until now, the demand valve has been an enigma to me. I was still completely clueless as to what one looked like until this last weekend. I agree, that an update to the oxygen page would be very helpful with regard to the demand valve system, how it works and how it looks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tingeling Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 There's picture of ondemand in my blog:) you can find it under training and ch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flipperlips Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 The demand valve is great and I'm so glad that Phil has one and it has made a huge difference in his abort times. You can always watch Ebay for one as well. Their hard to come by, but you can find a good deal on one on there if your patient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHfather Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 for the record, there are a couple of photos of a demand valve, along with discussion about it, at the ch.com oxygen page, and demand valve is also discussed in my little page here in the clusterbuster files, with a link to the ch.com page. i suspect that those pages are most often looked at by people who are new to oxygen, maybe considering an O2 system for the first time. it's hard to know how much to push demand valve there since, as was said at the conference and in this thread, they're not cheap and maybe not an advisable early expenditure for people who haven't even tried O2 yet. i don't know how common it is for people to go back to those pages after they've set up O2 and started using it. the search engine at the ch.com site quickly leads to some good pages, with photos, about how the dv works and why it's so good: e.g., http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1226213955 not saying it shouldn't be highlighted more somehow, but i'm just not sure how to do that beyond mentioning dvs to everyone who says something along the lines of "oxygen doesn't work for me"  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bejeeber Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 ..Phil has one and it has made a huge difference in his abort times... This is the same thing I'm hearing from other CH'ers with demand valves. Clearly this advantage is priceless, no? Thanks for that link to demand valve details CHF, I now have it bookmarked and ready to fire off to others. 8-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bejeeber Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 ...not saying it shouldn't be highlighted more somehow, but i'm just not sure how to do that beyond mentioning dvs to everyone who says something along the lines of "oxygen doesn't work for me"  I'm thinking it could be be described as a first choice O2 delivery system, not much of a ri$k since O2 does work for 95% or so of CH'ers. It saves the intermediate cost/hassle of a lesser system (where most of us end up stuck if we have purchased one), saves on O2 refill costs/preserves supply, potentially paying for itself over time, and cuts the risk of the *running out of O2 on a Sunday* incidents. I find myself burning thru tanks at a helluva rate during high cycle with my crude 45+ LPM high flow regulator technology, leading the O2 supplier to start balking at more refills without specific permission from the doc, which of course is a scenario fraught with peril. And a DV can make that portable E tank in the car last twice as long (if I'm interpreting this advantage correctly from the DV users I've spoken to). Just kinda thinking out loud here before I take my opinions about a cause for a modification to the CH info over to CH.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flipperlips Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 Oh yes...priceless for sure. When he was just doing the Opti-Mask with 25lpm he was having success....just not as much success as he's having witht the demand valve. Oh and I must mention that O2 didn't work for Phil until some wonderful people took him under their wings years ago. One even gave up his demand valve for the whole weekend for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatHurtsMyHead Posted September 20, 2011 Author Share Posted September 20, 2011 So...... Would those cluster heads out there be ok with using a regulator you put in your mouth instead of a mask for demand O2? (would waste even less O2 than a demand mask). A person would have to breathe in their mouth. Exhale could be either nose, mouth or both (or neither if you can accoplish it.    Input? I know a guy, that knows a guy, that knows a guy that designs way cool $hit.... I'd bet I could throw a few chocolate bars at him to design me something economical for us CH'ers.... Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brew Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 I find that by using the mouthpiece on the O2ptimask and removing it every time I exhale, I don't have to clean things near as often as I used to (except the mouthpiece itself, that is). If there were a way to easily remove this scuba demand valve between each breath - in other words, have a mouthpiece that didn't have a part that has to fit between your teeth and the insides of your lips - it would be the katz sass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bejeeber Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 I would consider having to use a mouthpiece instead of a mask to be a fine'n reasonable trade off for an econo DV. 8-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatHurtsMyHead Posted September 20, 2011 Author Share Posted September 20, 2011 soooo... For a standard SCUBA regulator to go over 40% EAN (Oxygen). They have to be rebuilt using special seals and parts that don't react with the higher concentration of O2 (I called a divemaster friend). So far I'm pretty sure I can get the cost well under $200, for a first, and second stage O2 clean regulators, rebuild kit and 6 foot of high pressure hose, and fittings. I'll keep everyone in the loop as my experiment progresses. As for the mouth piece: A few options are available. 1) The rubberpiece could be removed and that leaves just a 3/4" oval disk that can be easily used w/o the rubber. 2) The outside of the mouthpiece could be trimmed back to allow for about 1.25 inches of rubber sticking out 3) The mouthpiece can just be used on the outside of the lips instead of putting in your mouth. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonkers Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 This is very valuable work you're doing, Jeff. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brew Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 As long as the user can get an airtight seal with the lips around the mouthpiece, I'm good to go. And let me repeat what Ron has said - this is really important and valuable work you're doing here, Jeff. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHfather Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 this is really important and valuable work you're doing here, Jeff. Thank you. ditto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flipperlips Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Where's the like button...oops wrong place ;D Good job Jeff!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor_Tanaka Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 I picked up 3 demand valves on eBay for about $35 each. Two of them needed new exhalation valves @ $18 each. There is one out there right now from the same seller I picked mine up from... http://www.ebay.com/itm/Life-Support-Products-Oxygen-Demand-Valve-Medical-/180724727774?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a14087fde Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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