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Stepping on toes


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Thanks everyone.

A long time ago I drove a long way to be at my buddies wedding. I remember his dad, whom I had known all of my life, said something I have always remembered.

He said by the end of your life if you can fill your hand (showing me his fingers) with real good friends you are a lucky guy.

I never was confident that I could fill my hand till now!

Thank you all


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I had resolved to stay out of this , but I canÂ’t. Its been eating at me all day since I read this thread . First of all, I am truly sorry in the empathetic sense for all the terrible pain. I donÂ’t wish to be a pain in the ass when someone is hurting, but for the same exact reason ( someone is hurting)  I cannot in good conscience keep quiet.  This is in no way directed at an individual , although I have certainly been moved to write this by  DanÂ’s eloquent account of his pain and frustration.      

So, some thoughts, which hopefully lead to a logical conclusion:

1. Waiting for Godot: Drugs take a long time to bring to market. Most should take longer, since greed trumps caution every time and the industry has pushed substances they donÂ’t understand  with disastrous results so often it almost seems cliché at this point.  This is true even for drugs with huge potential user bases that they positively salivate to get out.  Only two things would interest any pharmaceutical firm regarding any possible CH drug: a) they would get lifelong clients B) how much could they charge per dose. Since the maximum potential market is small, B) would have to be pretty substantial to even get them interested.; also the price would reflect their development costs which would be shared out amongst the ‘user poolÂ’ of patients; again, since our pool is small the cost would necessarily be pretty steep. This will be true of ANY company bringing ANY drug to market no matter who they are; they could be Gandhi incorporated and they will still operate this way because they have to, its how business is done and they answer to their investors, and they are essentially in business to make money, not alleviate suffering. There was only ONE Jonas Salk. ( In case you donÂ’t know, he refused to patent his Polio vaccine and gave it to the world. Free.)

2. To add to this complication, attempting to bring a schedule I CDS into accepted medical use, or even trying to do it on a research/trial basis that doesnÂ’t involve DARPA (defense/security) priorities is like herding cats. No American government is going to do this . WonÂ’t happen. I used to work, long ago, in this particular area of law enforcement, and the people and policy makers involved stopped evolving sometime in the late Cretaceous. They MIGHT allow research, but getting beyond that stage would be a cluster-F ballet of cosmic proportion.

So my point, so far, seems to be that a legal BOL formulation is a) not going to appear in the immediate future and B) is likely to cost a shit load of money when and if it does appear.  DonÂ’t think they donÂ’t know we will pay anything up to and including  redundant body parts to stop the pain.

Which bring me to part two, and I will be really brief and not preach, hopefully.

Someone, I forget who exactly, made the astute observation on the other (herbal option that works) thread that it seems curious that people who are willing and eager to do-it-yourself dose themselves with potentially dangerous and obviously illegal substances seem ludicrously reluctant to try a simple herb. Allow me to add my own incredulity to his statement.

I am not a particularly good  BS artist; I think those who do so for a living are SatanÂ’s little helpers (sorry lawyers, politicians, salesmen, etc.). The following is absolutely true:

I have seen “simple plants” (they are really anything but) do completely amazing things. Speed the healing of difficult fractures; eliminate the need for hip replacement in hip dysplasia; reverse liver damage in advanced hepatitis; kill dead antibiotic resistant bacterial pneumonia. I have seen “simple” roadside weeds cure intractable eczema of many years duration that had stumped doctor after doctor. And now, I have seen and experienced a ‘simple’ plant that so far, has proven at least in my case to be extremely effective in stopping CH cold, and it seems to be working for others as well. I could go on and on, but I won’t as its pointless.

I will instead go with ‘old reliable’::

If you try the herbal solution, what do you really have to lose?

Twenty bucks, more or less, and a trip to a health food store. You donÂ’t even have to deal with dangerous and unsavory underground hippie types (like me).

This is less than the single dose cost of most of the stuff a lot of you guys are regularly taking, and IÂ’m talking about the legal stuff.

I donÂ’t believe this is in any sense a “cure” (I agree wholeheartedly with the post above ‘cureÂ’ v. ‘treatmentÂ’) or a magic bullet, but if it works for most people most of the time it will be more efficient and far less damaging  to our bodies than  anything else available now or likely to be available; including BOL.

** not to sound portentous  or pretentious  but the brain does not like being fooled on a long term basis in the hormone department. It compensates which is why SSRIÂ’s are so hard to kick. This little-known as of yet factoid of research is going to come back like MarleyÂ’s ghost and haunt the pharmaceutical industry; unless of course they can cover it up. Just my little prediction.

So; if you try the licorice root and it doesnÂ’t work  **(if you do try it, please try to have a positive outlook; you have no idea how important that really is)  you can pour it down the drain and  curse me out, it wonÂ’t bother me ( I have a vicious and psychotic ex-wife; IÂ’ve been abused by experts) .  On the other hand, it just might surprise you.

And that might save everybody the necessity of figuring out how to smuggle assault weapons into Britain.

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I agree with most of what you said Genser regarding the pharm companies and BOL.

I doubt any would find interest if BOL ONLY treats CH. So, because we are familiar with all of the drugs doctors prescribe for CH, we know none were manufactured for CH. WHAT IF, we could find a very common use for BOL, where it is very effective, and life-altering, in good way for some common ailment where pharms could prescribe it all day?

Maybe instead of bringing it to market for CH, we make BOL for migraines. In america everyone has migraines. Doctors could then prescribe it left and right, and now CHers have their medicine.

Just an idea. Hopefully, GLAXO doesn't get BOL though, they already made billions of imitrex.

ANY THOUGHts or am I just out there?

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Nothing is going to change the fact that any lysergic acid derivative is a schedule one controlled dangerous substance. You may not be aware, but LSD was first synthesized and researched as a potential migraine cure. It also showed exceptional promise as a therapeutic agent for use by psychiatrists. None of that means Jack to a government which has declared by imperial fiat that these substances have no medical value. There will always be that to overcome.

No matter what BOL is developed for, it will always be expensive. If I am wrong about this, it would literally be the first time in the entire history of pharmaceutical drugs, so statistics are on my side. Look at AIDS drugs. Who needs meds more than those people.... does a compassionate pharmaceutical industry make them available cause there is a need? yeah.

If I may, I think you missed the point I was trying for: I really don't care much about BOL other than to point out the obvious impediments to waiting around for it.

What I was trying to suggest; well, just read "part two" above again.

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I get your point les. I thank you very much for you input as well as that of all the others.

If you are right I will rate your stock way up there with my other heroes on this board. I don't know if the licorice is easily available in Abilene tx but I hope I can go get some TOMORROW. I have tried things that Hitler himself would be proud to have done to people. Try bilateral occipital neurolysis...twice , as if once wasn't enough torture for me.

Sometimes perhaps the answer is right under our noses and we are all so desperate that we can't see the forest for the trees.

I hold you in very high esteem for your gracious advice.

I will take it and take it with a good attitude. Thanks!


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I truly believe that most medications (prescription and over the counter) are poison to CH. 

Poor Andrew, had a fever of 101 the other night and refused tylenol.  He has had his four wisdom teeth out, septoplasty, and a very large cyst removed all without pain meds.  The doctor's were like "are you kidding me?!?"  And Andrew explained the trade off.  Whatever pain the procedures precipitated, would not be worth the pain they would cause.  Always do.

Smart kid.  The majority of his suffering over the years has been mostly due to all the things that are supposed to make you feel better.  After his fever broke, he said he was so glad he waited it out.  He feels so much better now that he is "clean" of all that crap.  But feels somewhat betrayed by conventional medicine and pharmaceuticals.  Probably a sentiment many of us here share.

I am so glad that you are feeling better, Dan.  And I am sorry about all your problems around the holidays, too.  Sometimes when it rains . . . .it sucks!  I think we can take your posts with a grain of salt. 

Hey, if you can't vent to your friends, who can you? :-?  Hang in there buddy, PF wishes!

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Hey guys; I just read the latest (maybe second to latest? I don't know ) Scientific American last night and there was a feature article on "new" interest in research using hallucinogens at Johns Hopkins and other places.... mostly psylocibin, also LSD. They talked about a lengthy list of prospective uses for the substances; everything from addictions to psychotic breaks.... guess what was conspicuously missing???

Any mention at all of CH.

There is no justice. Just us.

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When it rains it sucks and blows into the toilet

Yep when it rains it pours and when it pains it roars (into the toilet!).

Sounds like you're suspecting the pain pills for the back coulda run interference with the busting, and that sounds like a reasonable theory to me too. Glad it has stopped paining/roaring there - phew! - and here's to continued clear skies in the forecast!

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Jeez, Miss a couple of days and a whole shit storm came through. I'm not gonna jump back up to the earlier stuff and comment now. ?I just sure wish you the best, Dan. Sorry you had a ruff spot. I actually was in a similar mess and almost gave you a call. Now I wish I had. Will check in soon.


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Sure glad you're feeling better, Buddy. You are so obviously a good and kind man that anyone reading your posts for the past few days had to know that you were going through a rough spot. I hope it's over for now so you can start preparing yourself for the next one, lol. Love ya dude.


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I really can't believe that for the most part people trip for fun.

What the hell?

Next time I'll pretend that I just scored and eagerly take a trip and never leave the farm. It will not be medicine...a pleasure trip.

Yea right :)

I am 100% pain free. No shadows...zilch, nada, nothing.

Got drunk last night. I had one for all of you, thank you very much :o


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Hipshot...you live up to your name!  I appreciate your uncensored rant and think from the sound of it it was a well-deserved verbal tsunami.  (I also thought the newly edited version was pretty hilarious).

Glad to hear the waters have receded and you are back to sunning yourself in your usual optimism and spirit.  You're an inspiration...coming from someone with a similar inability to edit that she wouldn't trade for all the BOL in the world. 

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