Hipshot Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 https://biochem.thc-pharm.de/product_info.php?products_id=122 Thank you professor. BOL is being produced and is available it seems. I know it's not near being FDA approved but neither is LSD...point is it IS out there and we need it. we need to get creative. We need a controlled substance license and an importers license....damn details. We know Doctors and Professors and we are a crafty lot 8-) 8-). I am very excited about this. I may take a trip to Germany but homework needs to be done first. I will take all the help I can get. I don't know how BOL is classified as pertaining to the controlled substances act for starters... Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hipshot Posted January 16, 2011 Author Share Posted January 16, 2011 I can't speak German. I wonder why this company is producing BOL. Is it for headaches? Translator needed. Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bejeeber Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Wow. So doctors are able to prescribe it in Germany? Imagine this somehow becoming available to CH'ers worldwide and here in the US in the near future- what a breakthrough it could be if it lives up to it's promise. I wouldn't blame you one iota for hopping a plane to Germany if you felt confident you could get some Dan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hipshot Posted January 16, 2011 Author Share Posted January 16, 2011 Road trip? I sent the company an email begging for any and all assistance or suggestions. iDK if they comprende English. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 interesting . . . i dont think it will be a medication in our medicine cabinets but something u have to go to the doc for, all this awesomeness is going on and my current headachespecialist/neurologist has never heard of BOL still skeptical on all this , im sure the price will be outrageous and ins companies probably wont pay for it until the fda says its okay but ya never know still seems like a fairy tale to me > AO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jsmacks Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 I lived in Germany for 4 years. I'm conversationally fluent. Great country, and I'm here to help with some translation if need be. I still have many friends there, so if it's available there, I'll gladly visit some friends and get some BOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor_Tanaka Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 This company has LSD out there priced at just under $1000 for 10mg. https://biochem.thc-pharm.de/product_info.php?cPath=2_3&products_id=91 Would BOL be in the same price range? I dunno. How many doses would 10mg of pure BOL yield? A gram of pure LSD supposedly yields 10000 doses. http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/dea/pubs/lsd/LSD-5.htm Thus, if BOL is in the same dosage and price range as LSD, 10mg would yield 100 doses at a total cost of $1000... or $10 a dose for the BOL component.   Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakinitEZ Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 If you click on the little flag on their website it comes up in english. Interesting site. -T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bejeeber Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Oh. There's a flag there. Doh. I clicked on the flag, looked around a little, and found it interesting that about BOL they say "(in stock, on request)". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakinitEZ Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 It's a believable site, but I really don't understand their product mix given market demand we are aware of. Who is using these products? The cannabis substances I would believe are in high demand, but pure LSD, BOL, etc. - who's buying this stuff? If we can figure that out, we may be closer to a producer. -T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. J Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 All of you CUT THIS OUT NOW! First up, Entheogen Corp contracted THC PHarm to manufacture it. It is available for research purposes only out of THC Pharm: AND WILL NOT BE SOLD TO INDIVIDUALS. Next: The dose we experimented with was around 3 MILLIGRAMS. At $1000 per 10 mg... that is $1000 per person. BUT... THC Pharm will not be selling to any individual... only legitimate researchers. AND this stuff is NOT manufactured for human medication use. IF they sell it to anyone for such purposes: they are violating the patent that we have secured on BOL-148. In short: if you want to see BOL get to market the fastest: go to www.entheogencorp.com and register at the patient registry. Even better: help us find investors so we can move this along even faster. We all know that it is ESSENTIAL to get BOL to market ASAP and to make it available as a research compound within a CH study here in the USA even MORE ASAP. It might never get to market however if people start gaming the system and destroy its development through illegal manufacture, distribution, and patent violation resulting in definite litigation. 10mg DOES NOT OFFER TREATMENT FOR MORE THAN ONE PERSON. THC PHARM WILL NOT SELL THEIR NON-HUMAN USE BOL TO PATIENTS. Questions: Place them to entheogencorp's website or email me directly. I hope this helps clear up any remaining questions. I HOPE YOU GUYS WILL HELP US FIND MORE INVESTORS. BEST and always, Dr. J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hipshot Posted January 17, 2011 Author Share Posted January 17, 2011 With due respect Dr J. You don't have this daily torture...I do. That changes things. I could care less where the BOL comes from. I just want to try it and so do most of us. Whatever it takes. Are you saying that one can't go to Germany and get it under any circumstances? I will not "cut this out Now"...nurse Rached. I want my cigarettes! I am more concerned with my pain vs your patent. Sorry. I know you mean well. My intentions are also honorable. I am determined due to the pain we all suffer. We have nothing to lose. Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas Denny Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Hooo Boy!!!! First off, Thank you for posting this John!! Nice to see you here!!! OK ya'll, I've remained quiet in public thus far regarding this issue......but, it's seems like I've aquired "elder statesman" status on this edition of the clusterbusters forum at least......that bein said, I'd like to share some thoughts and observations......it's not my intention to offend anyone or step on anyones toes!!! We're all here for the same reasons, either to stop suffering or help those that still are suffering find the relief that we've found as a community....as we share our knowledge, experience, and hope, some of them are able to end their suffering, and some will stick around and share it with someone else...... In the past 15 months, I've seen a bunch of folks come here and get their lives back.......and none of em that I know of, were able to do it with BOL.......and I now have hope that if and when the beast comes to visit again (even in my old age), that "alt meds" will work for me.........I think back to cycles prior to 2006 with no O2, no online support, NO HOPE.........just another 12 to 16 weeks of HELL with a few jabs of Trex here and there.........and now I'm like, c'mon Futher Mucker!!! I got some shit for you now!!!!  But, that HOPE ain't BOL either......I mean let's face it folks, with capital to be raised, I's to be dotted, and T's to be crossed......trials to run and FDA approval, chances are it won't happen in what of this lifetime I have left at 64.......but I still have HOPE that it will be there for folks when I now longer am concerned with the beast!!! For the time being, we have the "meds" we need and although I think the majority of us would prefer to avoid the "trip" and just get the "magic", it is what it is and I'll freakin take it along with the HOPE I now have versus the HOPELESSNESS of the past when "HE" came calling!!!! Having had the opportunity to attend last years conference, I was priviledged to hear Dr J speak about entheogencorp prior to it becoming public knowledge and I am convinced that if he hadn't felt this was his best chance of getting BOL to market,........ then he would have gone a different direction!! I also had the priviledge of speaking to John one on one, so I feel like I also know his heart!!! As we said our goodbyes at the conference, he told me that he will always remain passionate about this treatment for clusterheads....but his drive is for the sufferers in Third World countries who really do have NO HOPE!!!! We see this all the time right here on the board with folks in countries outside the US where it's not possible for the "board angels" to work their magic.......not even Third World countries, but for them, "alt meds" are something that they can know about but only HOPE that they can somehow aquire them where they are!! Onward!!! Dallas Denny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hipshot Posted January 17, 2011 Author Share Posted January 17, 2011 Well said Denny. I love you and dr.J too. I wouldn't want my good intentions to backfire and possibly hurt rather than help. It just seems to me that no harm would come from getting "it" and using it in the mean time. Our little secret. Peace in the valley... Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. J Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Hey Dan and Denny: Both of you: Thanks. I also meant no disrespect and totally "get it" that when it comes to CH pain: let's get rid of the pain and deal with the aftermath afterwards. I don't want to see anyone suffer. But a little collaboration from all of us to do this right could help ensure we get to help the MANY CH'rs out there who don't have the benefit of clusterbusters and it's many wonderful active activists. Dallas D - with funding in place - I am definitely willing to bet ya that we'll have BOL in prescription form long before you pass those Pearly Gates. I definitely want the path that leads to the best for getting rid of CH for as many people as possible. If a few of you go around "the system" in this case and then somehow get hurt, things are going to get more complicated and costly and more will suffer in the end. I can't predict if such concerns are a bunch of hooey or valid, so I am asking people to help refocus our efforts where they should go. Once Entheogen Corp has the right amount of funding, I could easily imagine that we'll have a BOL trial up and running here in the States... "soon." What does that mean? Ugh, don't you all think I'd like to be more specific, too? I would and do and we are working HARD at this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHfather Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Dr. J, My best golf buddy is a neuroscientist who developed a pill that works great for a bunch of things, as demonstrated in Phase I clinical trials. He's raised many, many millions, and now needs 6 million more. It's taken him close to 10 years. It seems he's always on the cusp of having it happen, but then things slide back and then he's on the cusp of either giving it up or breaking through. I mention all this to say I guess I understand some of what Entheogen is probably going through. But since many of us are so anxious about BOL, can you say anything more about how much more $ is needed and how it's being sought? More specifically, you say >>>Even better: help us find investors so we can move this along even faster. <<< Are we talking about multimillion-dollar investors? Is there any way that a large number of CH contributors, their friends and associates, could make a dent in what you need? Thanks, Jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakinitEZ Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Honestly, CHFather, I would feel a bit weird about donating to a private enterprise. I would not go very deep into my pocket without it being in the context of a public offering of shares or even some slight percentage of interest. I'm all for the cause, but at the end of the day, it's a private venture. There hasn't been much in the way of communications regarding direction, status, etc. A bit of a hoorah here and there but not much real info regarding the study protocols, probability of success, etc. Not really clear what we'd be investing in. -T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHfather Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Completely agree, T. "Contributors" was probably a bad word choice by me. I guess I just wanted clarity from Dr. J -- which I am still hoping to receive -- about what he meant by >>Even better: help us find investors so we can move this along even faster.<< I mean, I could find potential investors and I think most of us could ("potential" investors because they'd make their decisions on a number of bases, including hard-headed rationality and possibly sentimentality--like investors in the Green Bay Packers do). But I'm not gonna waste my time sending my cousin Harry to invest if only Bill Gates will do. I actually know some people who know some rich people, and I might be willing to pursue that, but "help us find investors" is not clear enough for me. (Incidentally, I have made this offer to someone closely connected to Entheogen and I was kindly told, in essence, that my help was not needed. So I was surprised by Dr J's statement. I don't know if I could help or not, but I'd damn well try.) In the back of my mind always is something that Dr. Sewell wrote at his blog. I posted this once before and it seemed to irritate some folks, but like I say, it has stuck with me. He wrote: >>>My question to my readers is–why aren’t you out picketing? Cluster headache is four times as common as muscular dystrophy, I kid you not. Cluster headache is as common as multiple sclerosis. Yet Jerry’s kids are out there raising $60 million a year for muscular dystrophy research. $100 million a year is poured into MS research. The comparable figure for cluster headache research is… well, close to zero. But if you don’t care about cluster headache research, why should we?<<< He's not talking about the same kind of activity as funding a for-profit venture, but IF BOL is viable and IF Entheogen is the best way to get it, I want to know what I can do, and what we can do, in some kind of actionable terms. I really don't want to go to my grave thinking I didn't do all I could for my daughter's future -- and the rest of you have touched me pretty hard, too. Jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jsmacks Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Entheogen is the best way to get it, I want to know what I can do, and what we can do, in some kind of actionable terms. I am completely in agreement with you here. If I had some direction about something that I could do with my time to help, to advertise, to write, to make calls etc.. I would dedicate some of my time every week to this cause. It hits hard at home for all of us, and I'm more than ready to help in any way needed. Obviously I need to keep my job and stay near my family, but... maybe if CB.com or Entheogen could make a list of their actual needs. I know we need money, but maybe there is another list of strategic/creative things we could do to help? Good idea Jerry. Maybe that's a next step for those of us that want to help in any way we can on this process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonkers Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Maybe picketing to raise awareness isn't such a bad idea. Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brew Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 The difference is that MD and MS kill. CH does not. Hard to garner sympathy for what most people view as an inconvenience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakinitEZ Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Actually, although a high number with MS die, it's not MS itself, it's complications related to the MS. Suicide is a major cause, renal failure due to infections from catheters, dehydration, choking. The perception of MS is grim for sure. Changing the perception of CH is really what's needed. Not that it needs to appear grim, but raising awareness of the impact it does have on people's lives. This is happening with migraine. -T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. J Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Hi All - Please check out our News File: http://www.entheogencorp.com/evolution/ In it you'll read how much we are trying to raise at this stage of the company's development. People who are interested in helping directly or indirectly, can either fill out the contact form: http://www.entheogencorp.com/connection/ or can register in the patient or doctor registries: http://www.entheogencorp.com/headache-sufferers/ http://www.entheogencorp.com/medical-professionals/ The specifics of BOL as well as the inadequate treatment options for CH are ideal for pushing hard to GET THIS DONE. Brew wrote: "The difference is that MD and MS kill. CH does not." While of course I understand what Brew is getting at and also that Brew knows what I am about to say: CH does kill. Please let's all be vigilant for suicidality. Time is very much a factor and MUCH more so than perhaps for any other disease. Why CH? The pain. Yes, it should always have been Enemy #1. It is. I look forward to saying a lot more about all these threads at the next Clusterbusters Annual in Chicago in September, 2011. Always, Dr. J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brew Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 While of course I understand what Brew is getting at and also that Brew knows what I am about to say: CH does kill. Please let's all be vigilant for suicidality. Absolutely. It is the difference between public perception and insider information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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