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Thanks for posting this @Craigo. Definitely something to chew on. I'm down for the Google Sheet poll. In all fairness though, I have to point out that these studies were conducted "after" the individuals were afflicted with either CH or migraine so I can't help but think that the trait outcomes being listed are skewed because who wouldn't be a bit paranoid, schizoid, depressed and anxious after dealing with a good ol fashioned brain arse kicking? I get that it would be hard to conduct the test prior (say on those with a higher likelihood of developing one or the other) but life changes after CH...

...cool beans Craigo! ...as CHfathers's citation(s) demonstrates, don't be leery of older studies(not that i doubt you!). i distinctly recall discussions and papers demonstrating higher incidence among clusterheads of OCD, smoking, alcohol abuse, and mental health issues, etc...and i'm talking 20+ yrs ago. ..will certainly take this test but just by subhead alone, i know i'll score off the board

Plus you have the (Moog??!!) modular synth action going on in the background, which....OK....may have nothing to do with CH, but is cool as hell.

This could be the photo in the dictionary next to "leonine"!!

Thanks CHfather, I have updated the poll to ask the question and record if the person is a sufferer or not and if so, what form. I take it you added your email and received the analysis run through the prompt - it's just sending your results via an automation to a model with a prompt to analyse them - the prompt deals with a tie in scores based on prioritizing CH traits and if a tie stills exists, rank in alphabetical order - I have made that now clear in the email summary. Thanks for sharing these studies! Raises more questions than answers. Significant that the observed craniometric abnormalities were independent of smoke and alcohol intake which contrasts previous hypotheses that lifestyle factors might explain facial features like the "leonine face" that Graham and Kudrow wrote about. We also have a new paper published a few days back - Smoking in primary headaches – a systematic review and meta-analysis looking at smoking in primary headaches and found a weighted-pooled prevalence of smoking in CH patients of 65% being the highest prevalence among primary headache types evaluated, compared to 20% for migraine and 19% for TTH. Despite this they concluded that current smoking was not associated with CH diagnosis when compared to controls and suggest this lack of association might be due to the limited number of studies included for CH in their meta-analysis but also state that while smoking is commonly associated with CH, it may result from other as yet unidentified factors which aligns with the 2021 craniometry study's finding that the observed bone abnormalities are independent of smoking and alcohol consumption. On the losing beloved family pets, oh man it's tough. I'm sorry. We lost Harper our female border collie at 9 maybe 2 years back, Ollie held tough, my loyal mate, for another couple of years and he enjoyed great health over his 15 years with me. The sharpness of the pain has subsided but boy do I miss him, I find myself telling "Gurl" that Ollie would have adored her, he got so excited around cats. Cats are so different, try and approach them they run away, ignore them and they come to you. Alas its my Sunday and I have one very important task to do today, and that is book flights to Dallas for September. We are very excited but trying to figure out how much time to spend exploring Dallas and maybe Austin before going upto Seattle. It's a long old flight to not make the most of it - 24 hours, ungh.

Indeed. I only put up my cat avatar because there was some joking I wasn't getting enough likes, and cats were a theme among the more-highly-liked posters. Never had a cat; never wanted one. But then again, it's very relevant here to note that I don't have CH (my daughter does). So you might want to take my scores (responder #3) off the spreadsheet. In 1969, a fellow wrote about CH patients' "leonine" appearance," and in 1974, the great Dr. Kudrow "confirmed" that observation. PHYSICAL AND PERSONALITY CHARACTERISTICS IN CLUSTER HEADACHE, Headache: The Journal of Head and Face Pain | 10.1111/j.1526-4610.1974.hed1304197.x | DeepDyve Kudrow also said there that his male CH patients were on average almost six feet tall, which was about three inches taller than the average American male. Questionable as all that might be, there is this spooky-seeming thing from 2021: "Frontal Bone Height and Facial Width were able to discriminate, one independently from the other, CH patients from Healthy Controls with an overall accuracy of 77.00%." (PDF) Can Craniometry Play a Role in Cluster Headache Diagnosis? A Pilot Exploratory TC-3D Based Study Well, I took the Salamanca test. As you say, it seems to leave a lot to be desired. For one thing, the questions/items on the survey do not seem to be well correlated with the actual traits they are supposed to be measuring. I'm guessing that there are two questions per category (there are 11 categories), and you get one point for "sometimes," two for "frequently," and three for "always." (The actual line between "sometimes" and "frequently" seems much blurrier to me than the line between "frequently" and "always.") My top three traits were schizoid, anancastic, and paranoid, all of which are in the CH top six. I also got the same score for "anxious" (also in their CH top six) as I did for anancastic, but somehow they decided that anancastic was in my top three but anxious wasn't. I have to say that by the "normal" definitions of these terms, I am not an anxious or paranoid person. So my four top answers were all in the six most common ones for people who actually have CH. No idea what that might mean about the validity of the findings/instrument.

It's a fascinating topic, but I am also strongly with you on this, Bosco'. I guess people would have to think about whether they have always had the identified traits. (Once after 18 months of severe back pain, my GP sent me to a pain management guy, who was also a psychiatrist. He administered a personality test (Minnesota Multiphasic) that among other things asked about pain frequency, intensity, and expectation of relief. The doc solemnly told me that I seemed to have a predisposition for hypochondria. I am a calm and polite person, but I lost it at that.)

Interesting indeed. My, we're quite the lovely bunch, aren't we? The Google sheet sounds interesting, too, if it was quick and easy enough (what kind of personality trait does "wants things to be quick and easy" come under?

Greetings all, It’s been a hot minute since I last thought about the intersection of personality profiles and CH but a recent literature dive brought it back into focus, unintentionally I might add. I don’t know if you’ve come across a tool called Harzing’s Publish or Perish, it makes searching the scientific literature super easy. Using it I stumbled upon a 2016 paper that struck a chord over the past couple days and I wanted to share it here. I want to say before you read further there was an element of reading this study that was triggering / confronting so I just wanted to make that disclosure - this can be a challenging topic to navigate. Personality traits in patients with cluster headache: a comparison with migraine patients https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4791411/ According to the Salamanca screening test, personality traits included in cluster A (odd or eccentric disorders) are more prevalent in CH patients than in a population of migraineurs. Larger studies are needed to determine whether certain personality traits are related to CH. The study compared 80 CH sufferers (mostly male, average age 43) with 164 migraine patients (mostly female, average age 36). Using the Salamanca screening test, they found the most common traits in the CH group were: Anancastic (52.5%) Anxious (47.5%) Histrionic (45%) Schizoid (42.5%) Impulsive (32.5%) Paranoid (30%) Compared to migraineurs, paranoid and schizoid traits were significantly more common in CH sufferers. According to this screening tool, Cluster A traits (odd or eccentric personalities) appear more common in CH patients than in migraine patients. I was curious enough to simulate the Salamanca test using a language model and, no surprise, I scored highly on the same cluster: anancastic/OCPD, anxiety-related and schizoid traits. I did not score highly in the histrionic traits. Here’s a brief overview of what the 2 of these personality patterns look like that were pertinent for me, starting with anancastic (also known as Obsessive-Compulsive Personality Disorder, which is distinct from OCD). Anancastic was a new term for me, I hadn't heard of it before: Anancastic Traits (OCPD) Preoccupied with rules, structure, and control Perfectionism that interferes with task completion Rigid thinking, especially around morality Workaholic tendencies at the expense of relationships Difficulty delegating due to high standards Hoarding or excessive saving Stubbornness and resistance to change I score fairly solid on that one, lol. I look at the list and recognize a number of things that I consider work-on's in my life, balance between work and social relationships being one of them; real estate is not a great choice for that I must say. Definitely rigid in my thinking around morality, I wish I was an excessive saver(!!!) and I like tradition, I am not fond of change. And then there’s schizoid which frankly the word has a certain connotation to it but putting that aside: Schizoid Traits Strong preference for solitude Emotionally flat or detached Disinterest in close relationships, including family Limited enjoyment from most activities Unmoved by praise or criticism Few or no close friends or confidants The last time I had really delved into the above traits was to explore one of the other topics of my podcast, fatherlessness - Freud wrote about some of these qualities in Mourning and Melancholia. I was surprised to see some of those traits appear in this study. I have often wondered what bearing early parental loss had in the context of my CH, again difficult to explore because the discussion is contextual, there's no hard and fast with such abstract subjects albeit I have little doubt that early life adversity played a part in my journey with CH. Alas, if you’ve ever felt a bit “wired differently” or found it hard to relate to the social world most people seem to navigate with ease, this study suggests you may not be alone. It’s fascinating and maybe even a little validating to see how certain personality traits appear more frequently among cluster headache sufferers. It raises further discussion points. Are these traits a product of the pain, isolation and the unpredictability of CH? Or is there a deeper neurological or biological predisposition at play? My wife also took the test and didn't score for these results. I could setup an anonymized poll via a Google sheet if there was interest - equally interested in your thoughts as always. Craigo.

That's some weird, suspect timing following the implant, but even though epinephrine at the dentist is a notorious trigger for some, the fact that the repercussions would typically be expected more instantly makes it sound like coincidence can't be entirely ruled out(?). Also, as you may be well aware, even following decades of consistent behavior, we can still expect CH to pull a change up on us, and start a cycle in a never-before-experienced fashion, such as a slow ramp up with advil etc. abort-able attacks at first. Hate to think it, but I would be bracing for some possible continued ramping up.

Given all the circumstances, it seems very unlikely that this is the issue, but I think it's almost universally true that the anesthetic that dentists typically use, Xylocaine + epinephrine, triggers CH attacks. (It's the epinephrine that does it.) But, among other things, the attacks usually come on more quickly than what you're describing, and of course you've had many previous dental procedures so it seems very likely you would have had the X+e during one of them. I think your next procedure with this oral surgeon won't be for quite a while, but I suppose you could request a different anesthetic just in case.

It is ROLAND SYSTEM 500 and at the time a Moog voyager oldschool plus vx and cp breakoutboxes It can make sounds that scare beasts away but not ‘“the beast”

First, thank you @Craigo for the poll, and second, I do have to agree with @BoscoPiko on this one:

A small (I hope) hijacking. I've been reading more about Dr. Graham, who first provided the "leonine" characterization. Just thought these quotes about women were worth mentioning. "It's a man's disease," says Dr. Graham, and women who are afflicted with cluster headache tend to "act mannishly." What's new on heads and their aches? (This article recounts a couple of 1977 talks about CH at a conference. On one hand, they're pretty cringeworthy, and on the other they at least show some folks trying to figure out what to do about CH. (CH was considered just a subdivision of migraine until the 1960s -- which, depending on your age, might seem like a long time ago or pretty recent.) (In 1960, 5% of medical students were women.)) This is from 2006. I think it still took a long time after that to really acknowledge that many women have CH (and many doctors still don't seem to know that), but she (the author) was trying, at least. "Cluster headache is a notoriously painful and dramatic disorder. Unlike other pain disorders, which tend to affect women, cluster headache is thought to predominantly affect men. Drawing on ethnography, interviews with headache researchers, and an analysis of the medical literature, this article describes how this epidemiological “fact”—which recent research suggests may be overstated—has become the central clue used by researchers who study cluster headache, fundamentally shaping how they identify and talk about the disorder. Cluster headache presents an extreme case of medicalized masculinity, magnifying the processes of gendering and bringing into relief features of the world whose routine operation we might otherwise overlook." Uncovering the Man in Medicine - Joanna Kempner, 2006

At the time I was reading about this I looked like my avatar picture. So it was like “whaaaaat?” And my zodiac sign is lion. And I am 1.86cm in height. That is probably 6feet in American?

Hey everyone. Been awhile since i’ve been on here. I hope everyone is well and in good health. The last time i was on here, I made some pretty anxious and depression-ridden topics about how i thought my life was over.. boy was i wrong. I’m posting this to further support the tools and methods that have been written about on these forums.. and to possibly give hope to those that feel lost, as I once did. The last 4 years have been some of the most eye-opening years of my life. I’ve made drastic health conscious decisions that aided in my relatively pain-free years. I’ve tried “busting” and diet changes. Both with great success. I listened to my body and found that a combination of Vitamin D3, magnesium glycinate and omega 3 supplements help keep my headaches at low pain levels or at bay. An (almost) gluten free, no msg or additive, low histamine, anti-inflammatory diet helps maintain that low inflammation in my body. Sleeping with my head slightly elevated and neck supported also helps me keep the blood pressure from building. I also found that getting sick with a cold/flu will immediately bring a cycle on. I assume because of the sudden onset of inflammation in the body. Especially in the face/sinuses. Taking valuable information given by Pete Batcheller, (don’t know his @ at the moment, sorry!) the cycles have been very minimal in times where they should have been grave and unforgiving. I’ve learned to accept the fact that I may have clusters for the rest of my life. I’m 24 years old, and for the first time in the 16 years i’ve had clusters, I’m finally OK with it. Where there’s a will, there’s a way. But it’s important to keep in mind that pain free responses will not happen over night. Not every piece of information helped me. Some worked, some didn’t. Having a strong support system of people helped immensely. I can partially attribute my positive attitude to one of the “busting” methods that we know about. These headaches made me appreciate the little things in life, which in turn, makes life much more beautiful. Music sounds heavenly, sights are awe inspiring, love for those around me increase. I can live my life knowing I have the tools and resources to stop a cycle, should it come back. I also learned that hardships and trying times await each and every one of us, but will never make life not worth living to the absolute best of our abilities. The human spirit is truly indomitable. I extend my love and thoughts to everyone here! I’ll be sure to keep everyone updated as I grow older

Agreed. The "Sometimes" was a bit frustrating because you are forced to go with that selection even if your response would have been "Never".. That aside, my top three were anancastic, anxious and dependant. The dependant one was a bit funny to me because my husband swears all the time "you have your mind made up and there's no talking sense to you"!!

I don't think it was ever meant to be a trend... Jeeb has had that profile pic since I joined the CB site and CHF changed his a while back (not sure why but assume it was in an attempt to look more cute) My profile image for social media stuff has always been of Bosco my late Abyssinian cat (coolest cat in the world)! Sorry to hear about the loss of your pup that's always hard. I lost my Abby Doo (lab mix) and Bosco (Abby cat) not to long ago and still have a rough time with it. Any animal profiles (except reptiles) are welcome in my book:) Thanks for the link. I'll give it a go and see just how bonkers I really am

And further back it was probably the witch trials. My greatgrandmother died in an asylum nobody knows why or what. But I think I got an idea why it happened . I am so glad I was born in 1974. Today we got O2 and bustingagents.

Hi! No I haven't, but this is interesting. I've only done occipital nerve blocks twice. Each time I got relief from my episodic CH for only like 1-2 days. From a CH standpoint, this injection would likely help or do nothing. I don't think it would hurt or trigger anything. Good luck and don't forget to report back!

I also read sometime that we(ch-heads) have a leathery skin and lion manes. i thought that was very funny and it fits like a glove. Just like the above personality traits. I am diagnosed on the autism spectrum the OCPD is just like a description of autistic behavior. And the schizoid thing is just the consequence of having a cluster. And I also have a monobrow. And everyone knows what that means

Hi all, Sharing a study just published in Cephalalgia Reports titled "Clinical treatment of cluster headache with the serotonergic indoleamine psychedelics psilocybin and LSD and with ketamine: A case series". Abstract Background: Cluster headache is an excruciating condition for which standard treatments are usually insufficient. Evidence has accumulated that serotonergic psychedelic indoleamines including psilocybin and LSD can be effective in preventing attacks. Methods: In this case series, nine patients with episodic and chronic cluster headache that didn’t respond to conventional treatments were treated at a clinic with psilocybin or LSD, under compassionate use provisions, and in most cases separately with ketamine. Results: All patients responded positively to at least one of the treatments, and eight of nine responded positively to the treatment with the psychedelic indoleamines, in several cases with extended periods free of attacks. Conclusion: These clinical data, though of an exploratory nature, add to the existing pool of evidence for the usefulness of these substances for treating cluster headache, and further support the lowering of legal and regulatory barriers to medical access to the psychedelic indoleamines. https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/25158163251345472 Fairly powerful findings albeit a small patient cohort. I don't know if ya'll have used Notebook LLM - but the attached audio "podcast" is an AI generated conversation discussing the findings of this article in podcast format. As with all AI - always be cautious but I checked it against the article as I listened and it's an accurate reflection of the article. Psychedelics and Ketamine for Cluster Headache Treatment.wav leighton-et-al-2025-clinical-treatment-of-cluster-headache-with-the-serotonergic-indoleamine-psychedelics-psilocybin.pdf

Hi, Some of you may be aware I did some research into the timings of CH cycles and remember that it is connected to solar cycles. Recently, it has become more and more obvious that the intensity of CH attacks "peak" whenever the Sun transitions from one sign into the next - whether this be in the sidereal or the tropical zodiac. If around the same day, the Sun is also "afflicted" by certain other planets, the effect is even stronger. In regards to this, I want to make a "forecast" for later this year. Anyone in a cycle around that time, beware of MAY 14-15 2025. The reason: around the middle of May, the Sun will be Ingressing into sidereal Taurus (sensitive point of transition), On top of that, Mars will also be in parallel to the Sun (affliction).

I'm just gonna move to a planet with no sun!!!!!!!

Hadn't seen this either til now. HIGHLY RECOMMENDED - thank you for bringing it to attention @Dallas Denny!

Thanks for the warning! I tried but had some leakage

Its bad enough to where I can't do anything but scream and squirm around on the floor wishing i was dead lol. I am a big advocate on staying away from medicine. I don't even use advil most of the time. I just ordered oxygen so hopefully that will help.