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Lieutenant2

Preliminary report - experiment with GABA

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I'm going to keep this short, if it generates any interest, I will be happy to elaborate more and/or answer any questions. But here we go:

A few weeks ago, I intentionally let me last bust "wear off". RC seeds work for me, but I've always wanted to get to the next level of this thing, rather than blocking receptors. . .I started doing a ton of research on the actual brain signals/neurotransmissions that might be at fault.

Long story short, I let the beast come all the way back because I wanted a "clean" test of a few things I wanted to try. So, once I was back to full-blown CH (I'm chronic, so there's no off-season) I was getting crushed twice at night, and 2-3 times per day, using no abortives at all. . .it was time to start my trials.

GABA (gama-aminobutyric acid) is an inhibitory neurotransmitter that essentially cancels out Beta brain waves (that's a huge oversimplification, but I'm keeping this short). The controversy with GABA surrounds the idea that it doesn't cross the blood/brain barrier, so there are other forms (like picamilon) that are formulated to do just that.

I started taking 1.5g of GABA on an empty stomach at 9pm (two 750mg capsules). No other supplements, no vitamins, no diet change, no other variables. My results are as follows:

Day 1 - pain free

Day 2 - pain free

Day 3 - "shadow" at 8pm after drinking three 11% beers, lasted approx. 20 minutes

Day 4 - pain free

Day 5 - pain free

Day 6 - pain free

Day 7 - shadow at approx. 9am

Day 8 - pain free

Day 9 - shadow/maybe K2 at 10am; increased dosage at night to 2.25g

Day 10 - today. . .pain free so far

I have about 60 hours of research tied up in this, no need to go into further detail, but it's out there if you want it. I believe CHers all have different causes, triggers, etc. Mine are directly related to sleep cycles and brain activity at inappropriate times, so I sought out GABA. If anybody else is willing to give it a shot and/or would like to learn more, feel free to ask questions.

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Please keep updating. I will have to start from ground zero on this as I know nothing about GABA.

But, I do know that I have 'unusual' brain wave patterns based on an EEG. Dr. couldn't figure it out, but he did mention they were Beta waves.

Hmmmm

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Interesting. It looks like you might be on to something. Please keep us informed. The longer you remain PF, the more interest you'll generate and the more people who'll be "willing to give it a shot."

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Just a quick update, another 24 hours without any hint of CH. I am doing the family Christmas thing this week, so I admit to having a bit of alcohol yesterday.

2.25g seems to be the right amount, as I was only getting shadows with the 1.5g. No real side effects to speak of, just a strange sense of focus (almost too much focus, abstract thoughts are all but impossible). But good REM sleep, easy wake-up, no hangovers.

I know a couple other people are about to try this, hopefully we'll have more anecdotal evidence on here soon.

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Lt. 2,

Is this something you need prescribed or can you get it on your own?

I am discontinuing all the meds I can at this point: Progesterone, Lyrica, Verapamil. Two will remain: Singulair and Prylosec at prescription levels, not otc

Where do I start research? What can you tell us online that you have already researched?

For reasons stated earlier, I am VERY interested. The EEG was done when I first met the Dragon in my 20's. Lately, they don't seem to use it or place credence to results obtained from one.

Merry Christmas! Stay PF and keep up the updates! :)

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Just a quick update. . .since my last post, it's been two more days 100% pain free. The few "shadows" I was having went away when I upped the dosage to 2.25g.

And Spiny, not at all. . .GABA is readily available (except in England, for some reason). I bought the Now brand from iHerb, mainly because I wanted high dosage capsules, and it was cheap $9 for what is a month supply at 2.25g/day. I'm guessing you can find it at most supplement stores, just make sure it's pure GABA. It's an ingredient in a lot of those "brain formulas", but you don't want all the other stuff.

For the record, my Christmas day started at my usual 5am, included two flights, with a glass of wine in between, and now I'm sitting here having another glass of wine. I wouldn't dare do that a month ago!

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PS - Spiny, I'm sorry I ignored one of your questions last night. I'm at the beach for a week and using my Droid, hard to read the forum!

As for research on GABA, there really is none relating to CH. I'm in uncharted territory here. Its main use has been for anxiety, with mixed results. For starters, check out the wikipedia article. It does a decent job explaining how GABA functions as an inhibitory neurotransmitter. I started from there, and becan searching medical journals, naturopathic forums, etc. I'll post some when I get back to a normal computer.

Anthony, I wish I had an answer for you, but I'm not sure how this might function with the D3 regimen. I don't know much about that, or its mechanism. If it's designed to be a vascular treatment, GABA shouldn't overlap at all. It has no effect on blood vessels or anything else physical, it's just a neurotransmitter. Maybe someone who is well versed in the D3 thing could shed some light, but I don't think trying it would hurt anything, at the very least.

Another night of sleep, another day with no CH.

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ok lt 2 i think i am a good test subject for the GABA. im off of all rx meds, doing the d3, o2, and ginger tea. i picked up solgar 500mg GABA. ill take 3 before bed and report back. i am having a very active cycle at fairly early stages. did bust about 4 days ago with rc seeds but didnt put a dent in this cycle.

lt 2 you are either crazy or a mad genius intentionally bringing the headaches on like you did. but i thank you for taking the bullet on this experiment. skeptically optimistic i will let u know what happens

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I'm trying GABA, saw it and thought it was an early Christmas present, went to heath food store and got some. I started Christmas eve day, one pill during the day another at night, starting slowly. I'm chronic, on O2, D3 and RC seeds somethings, RC seeds don't seem to do a whole lot for me, but I take them. I always get hit daily between 5:00 - 8:00 pm, CH last 5 minutes to 2 hrs, varies between 1-4, sometimes more, sometimes off the deep end. So far 3 days on GABA just very small hits in the evening, like .5. Damn good for me, I'll take it, and I'm sleeping good, I'll post in a few days, the weather is due to change and that will be a good test. peace and it's good to have ya'll here, thanks for everything...

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I'm off to town to buy a supply. It doesn't appear that it can hurt, even at dosages up to 18 grams. It's inexpensive. It may help. I think it's worth a try.

Hey All

How many mg's of gaba is one to take? i see talk about grams but i dont know how many mg's to take? Im a bit slow a little brain damage from clusters LOL :o

Anthony

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Koctail, looking forward to your report. I definitely felt the effects at 1.5g, then upped it to 2.25g.

RazorPP, very curious about your dosage. How much are you taking? Empty stomach, especially with no proteins?

Anthony. . .not a dumb question at all for us non-metric Yankees. There are 1000 miligrams in 1 gram. Therefore, if you have 500mg capsules, two of them would be 1g. Frankly, I suggest taking at least four of them (2g). For a variety of reasons, mainly due to metabolism, absorption, and the blood/brain thing, effective doses seem to start there.

Very glad others are starting to experiment with this. . .I don't feel like a complete kook anymore!

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I think this is a valid theory. I tried the GABA pills but they didn't work on me... however, Baclofen is a derivative of GABA and that's a preventative for me. One of the few that actually worked.

Then there's the fact some people are helped by Neurontin and Lyrica, and Neurontin at the very least is a GABA analogue. So yeah. Good going Lt! :D

Mystina

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LT2,

Thanks. I will look for some when I am out on the road today.

REM usually sets me off. I will let you know how it goes. Right now, I am going to WIKI to take a look. Since I know my Beta waves are screwed, this could be a big bullet for me.

Currently getting a small one, just burn and crawling around my temple. Not what I would call an issue, but would be at 2-3 on the KIP scale. Not something I normally would treat, but maybe I should.

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Hey Mystina. . .thanks for the added info! If you don't mind me asking a few questions, I'd like to use your experience to help isolate some variables:

Were you taking just pure GABA, or was it one of the bonded combinations, like picamilon?

What was the dosage? How and when were you taking it?

What other meds/supplements were you taking at the time? Anything that also functioned on neurotransmitters or receptors?

I'm not trying to be nosy, I just want to learn more about what may or may not work with the GABA. Thank you!

Another restful night, after a total of three beers and two small glasses of wine yesterday. Heading out to the beach to watch  thunderstorm roll in over the ocean.

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Dude, that is one heckuva read! I admire your research. :)

I'm glad you saw what I saw in all that chemistry and gibberish! Nothing in there about CH or even serotonin/hypothalmus disorders, but just a lot of stuff that sounded really familiar to me. Jacked-up sleep patterns, scattered thoughts, etc. I think my CH is a total domino effect from all of this. Others probably have different causes, but I sincerely hope some of you are exactly like me. I need more guinea pigs!   :)

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Hi and thanks for posting. I'm really intrigued. I've had headaches since the late '70s. I got addicted to Valium which kept them at bay for 10 years - but of course ended up with a massive habit (120mg a day) which was miserable to detox from. I got clean and sober in '88 and my headaches were intermittent and at worst I could lie down with a fist full of Advil and a hot washcloth. Then I started going to India several times a year around '94 and I began to have episodes of chronic fatigue and more frequent headaches. I went to the best headache guys in NYC and zilch. Over the last 10 years they've been getting worse and Fioricette which was so effective seems to have become less effective, even if I don't take it for weeks. I've been lurking on this forum for two years and have only posted a few times. I have tried the RC seeds without any real noticeable results. I took them again last week late at night before bed and had nausea and cramps and unbelievable gas all night. I never noted till today - that I was supposed to take them on an empty stomach. I did however get a little relief about 48 hrs later. In the last few weeks I have been desperately contacting old hippie/Wavy-Gravy friends trying to score some shrooms - despite how much I don't like psychedelics - but with no luck. Been begging my pals in Amsterdam to send me some on my Fedex account - but they all have these freaking paranoid visions of America as a facist state and are worried that something will go wrong causing black-suited Swat teams to fly to Amsterdam to waterboard them. ;D Then this morning I saw your post and immediately jumped on my motorcycle and went to the local Vitamin Shoppe and bought some Gaba. Part of the reason I got so excited is that when I was suffering from anxiety and depression after a course of antibiotics taken to rid myself of amoebas picked up in India - I had a customer in my shop (I sell musical instruments from India) who was a surgeon. We were discussing an excerpt I'd read about a Harvard study on the way the use of antibiotics can cause anxiety and depression - and how 99% of doctors are totally clueless about this. The doctor told me he was amazed at how few physicians know about this. He told me he'd read a paper that said, in short, that excessive use of antibiotics cause damage to the Gaba receptor sites in the brain. So when I read your post THE LIGHTS WENT ON! :D I took 3 of the 750 mg Gaba tablets about 15 minutes ago and am experiencing hot tingling as if I'd taken a dose of straight Niacin which I tried taking years ago for anxiety. It is uncomfortable - but I'm sure it will wear off. More later.

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Weather change hit. I thought so with the 'little' one going on in my head. Yep, barometric is down and rain is here.

Going to town (I really think it is a village!) to see what I can find. We have 2 Pharmacy's and one Health Food/Vitamin store. Maybe I will get lucky! :)

Lt2, I have a lot of what you describe. The night time, after falling asleep 'furies' are the worst and boy, are they clock like. Meaning that they occur at very regular intervals ALL night! Not just one or two. Always at least four. Apparently REM is the trigger so I don't get any. Until today, I have been PF since 1:00AM Christmas Day. That is my longest break in 4 months.

Cut out the diazepam (?sp) when I started the Melatonin. Had been taking one at bedtime most days since back surgery Now, I have cut back the Melatonin due to the groggy wake up it caused. Today, my head and my a$$ are once again not wired together. Scatterbrained is another way to say it I suppose. And that horrible feeling all over of running a V8 on 5 cylinders.  Focus would be a world of improvement!!!! :)

I take Lyrica, but can only tolerate one 75mg a day. Side effects were too severe.

I'm currently trying to eliminate all Rx from my day with the exception of Singulair for multiple allergies.

I'm off and will let you know if I can find any GABA locally.

Who knows, perhaps I will be able to enjoy a beer again! :D

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All,

Not sure everyone should run out and start taking GABA.  It looks like it plays a role in neuro transmitters being hyper active, but there also seems to be a lot of other drugs and supplements that can interoperate with it.  I've had niacin flush and it can be pretty scary.  GABA can have a similar reaction.  Be careful.... Given some of us are on other supplements or prescriptions...

Here is a very thorough article on GABA:

www DOT denvernaturopathic.com/news/GABA.html

LT2,

Let us know if you breasts start to grow bigger ;)

From this article and most of the other articles I grazed everyone seems to say don't operate machinery or drive while taking GABA.  (not sure about flying???)  Everything I grazed definitely says it has a sedative effect.  Not to harp here but it seems like GABA combined with alcohol will lower reaction times and that might not be so good for a pilot.

Maybe low doses in conjunction with busting???  Might a low dose increase the effectiveness of busting??  Thinking out loud here. :)

Jeff

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Jeff,

Excellent post and a very timely reminder of what I think I posted way up there ^ somewhere. Now is a great time for me to reiterate:

My experiment with GABA is just that, an experiment, and I have done some ridiculous amounts of research into its effects. That is definitely why I mentioned that I am doing a "clean" experiment with it; no meds, no supplements, no abortives, no preventives, no Flintstones chewy vitamins, no nothing. I have absolutely no clue how GABA might interact with anything else.

Another important thing to not is that I consider GABA to be ONLY a nighttime before bed once a day supplement, not an abortive and not to be taken at the onset of an attack (I have a theory that it could actually make an attack worse).

And yes, the niacin flush described is a possibility, along with the potential for labored respiratory function. I haven't experienced any of this, and I'm guessing it only happens in very high doses. Meathead bodybuilders take GABA in doses up to and above 10 grams to boost HGH.

Lallangoti, please keep me posted. . .if you haven't taken the GABA on an empty stomach before sleep, I strongly suggest doing so.

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