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MoxieGirl

Pot vs Shrooms

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Hi gang,

I remember reading a post of two saying how pot is normally bad for clusters. There was comments along the lines that it does the opposite thing to the blood vessels than we want it to (shrinks them when we want them expanded, or vice versa).

I wanted to explain this to a friend, but explain it correctly. Can someone elaborate?

I've also heard about one or two clusterheads who do find pot helps, would love to hear from you too.

I'm a rare one in that alcohol doesn't trigger an attack, and it even aborts migraines (when all else fails). So I wouldn't be surprised to hear that pot is typically bad for clusters, but not for 100% of everyone.

Cheers,

MoxieGirl

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im a pot smoker, and only in my worst periods, i tend to smoke less, because its a bit harder to deal with all the pain when youre stoned.

but for the rest, i dont think it makes any difference, in long periods i dont smoke pot, i dont notice any change. it just helps me relax a bit, and feel a litle better under my constant shadows. maybe compareble to how someone might drink a beer to relax.

btw alcohol doesnt trigger for me eighter, so maybe its just me, i dont know...

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HIYA MOXIE!!

I found smoking marijuana to be a small trigger.  It seemed like (and I could totally be wrong, it just seemed like) if I took small hits and didn't cough I was fine.  If I went into a mad coughing episode, it would trigger an attack. 

I don't smoke anymore (I used to live in a state where it's legal medically) but I do find that marijuana glycerine oil, THC/CBD capsules, or even just the good old fashioned "pot brownie" help TREMENDOUSLY for my residual facial pain after a full on attack.

Added note, for those of you who live in medical states, and I think there are 16 or 17 of them now, you can get your card for cluster headaches.  Even if smoking it isn't your thing, there is a wide array of medibles, oils, and salves out there that can be way more beneficial than an any pharm pain reliever ... and easier on the liver too.

To really answer your question though ... you are correct,  marijuana causes mild vasodilatation (the opposite of vasoconstriction, which is what we are looking for)

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During an attack, forget about smoking.  It makes the the hit that started at a kip 5 a kip 8, which is NOT cool.  But outside of a hit, like right after one, it relaxes me and no CH side effects.  It also helps me to eat during a cycle, when eating is not something I think about. 

Don't really know the physiological effects that happen to make my headaches worse, but that what it does for me.  Hope that helps!

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Someone else said it first, but I'll repeat it.

Weed doesn't make me hurt less; it just makes it where I don't care as much that I hurt.

I don't smoke much but I enjoy a nice toke to start the morning off.

It is really bad for my already bad short term memory so I am avoiding it more lately.

As far as headaches go: it has no effect, one way or the other for me. Just a relaxant and much safer than Xanax and other medications. IMO

Alcohol is OUT for me Damnit. No way, no how. Never. Double damnit

8-)

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Someone else said it first, but I'll repeat it.

Weed doesn't make me hurt less; it just makes it where I don't care as much that I hurt.

I don't smoke much but I enjoy a nice toke to start the morning off.

It is really bad for my already bad short term memory so I am avoiding it more lately.

As far as headaches go: it has no effect, one way or the other for me. Just a relaxant and much safer than Xanax and other medications. IMO

Alcohol is OUT for me Damnit. No way, no how. Never. Double damnit

8-)

Just a leetle chuckle from Montana.  Can ya hear me now?

                Potter

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Im from Canada and pot is legal here for medicinal purposes. Ive never tried it during an attack,but if i try to even have a few puffs off a cigerette when i feel one comin on it does not feel very good.I can see the benefits of the pot afterwards as far as relaxing and being able to sleep,cant be any worse for me then the anti anxiety and sleeping pills i am being prescribed now.

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WOW! Fantastic information, thanks.

85% of my clusters are short. We are talking 1-15 minutes. I sometimes get ones that last 20-30 minutes, and less often 30-60 minutes.

So I don't find trying to take anything, even having oxygen around, as an abortive much point. The pain has usually subsided by the time I would apply it. Te same would be true for marijuana.  Wouldn't be able to get it quickly enough most of the time.

But, if it helped with the post-headaches, my daily chronic headaches or migraines, that would be cool.

Shall explore more.

MG

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I have the feeling BB will have something to contribute here. I believe he's researched the subject aplenty. 8-) [smiley=vrolijk_1.gif]

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Im from Canada and pot is legal here for medicinal purposes. Ive never tried it during an attack,but if i try to even have a few puffs off a cigerette when i feel one comin on it does not feel very good.I can see the benefits of the pot afterwards as far as relaxing and being able to sleep,cant be any worse for me then the anti anxiety and sleeping pills i am being prescribed now.

ONly if you have Glucama or MS. Only way to get pot pills prescribed.

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Chronic pain and certain nerve damage conditions too. In Nova Scotia anyway.Couple friends have permits and neither have glaucoma or MS. Must be a provincial thing.

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Chronic pain and certain nerve damage conditions too. In Nova Scotia anyway.Couple friends have permits and neither have glaucoma or MS. Must be a provincial thing.

Chronic pain and certain nerve damage conditions too. In Nova Scotia anyway.Couple friends have permits and neither have glaucoma or MS. Must be a provincial thing.

could be. I asked my doc who has to belong to the College of Ontario Doctors and Surgeons.

She said nope.

things change daily. And your right provincially things maybe different. but i never ever listen to what "a buddy" tells you. I believe my doctor whats legal...not a buddy.

I know alot of BUDDYS who claim things are legal...bahahaha

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Smokem if ya gotem. [smiley=bath.gif] Cannabis ingested orally can do many things medicinally. I've researched this aplenty however I have forgotten most of it. ;D ;D ;D

It's a big trigger for me when the cluster attacks are intractable or highly active. During lower activity I can smoke.Cannabis does work on some of my migreeenes, ingested orally. I love cookies. It's a wonderful plant when taking opiates long term. Kicks the oxy's in the ass so you dont need as many, often delaying or eliminating opiate dependance. I could go on for pages. ;)

It should not be a schedule one substance. I support MAPS as they are actively pursuing medicinal study protocols with the FDA..dope nazi's. This and other substances deemed having no medicinal value, need to be rescheduled..this would be a wonderful thing for all of us. Need more talk about rescheduling, enough is enough. Medical oppression!!! >:(

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Smokem if ya gotem. [smiley=bath.gif] Cannabis ingested orally can do many things medicinally. I've researched this aplenty however I have forgotten most of it. ;D ;D ;D

It's a big trigger for me when the cluster attacks are intractable or highly active. During lower activity I can smoke.Cannabis does work on some of my migreeenes, ingested orally. I love cookies. It's a wonderful plant when taking opiates long term. Kicks the oxy's in the ass so you dont need as many, often delaying or eliminating opiate dependance. I could go on for pages. ;)

It should not be a schedule one substance. I support MAPS as they are actively pursuing medicinal study protocols with the FDA..dope nazi's. This and other substances deemed having no medicinal value, need to be rescheduled..this would be a wonderful thing for all of us. Need more talk about rescheduling, enough is enough. Medical oppression!!! >:(

 

+1

I spent a little over a year knee deep in activism/growing and have seen first-hand the wonderful things cannabis can do for people.

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Not playing devils advocate here because I dont bust or d pot but be carefull not to turn into an addict. Yes pot can lead to addiction. Just be careful is all I am saying

With all due respect to you and your personal wishes/choices, there have been NUMEROUS studies completed throughout the world, with NUMEROUS subjects used as experimentation and as solid base subjects.  I'm not talking hundreds .... but rather 10's of thousands of subjects.

England, U.S.A., Australia, Canada, Germany, France..... the list goes on and on and on .... but the numbers don't lie.

Between 10 to 30% of regular users will develop dependency. Only about 9% will have a serious addiction.  In my honest opinion these numbers are a bit high ..... but I'm not the scientist nor the psychotherapist ..... I just calculate their numbers.

There is a MUCH LOWER addiction rate with tinctures, salves, medibles, and oils compared to your back woods "smokers". 

Studies have shown that the addiction is from THC.  New age users are not looking for the THC, but rather the CBD properties.  The CBD's in fact counteract the THC.  MILLIONS OF DOLLARS (trust me) are being spent to hybridize strains of marijuana with the lowest THC and highest CBD numbers possible.

Weed has changed.  It's not the "everyday hippie let's get high" drug anymore.  Not even close.

With these changes come a lower addiction rate and a higher healing power. 

Anyone looking to just get high may find marijuana  to be gateway drug ... sure .... but anyone using marijuana in a medicinal fashion is seeing the future of modern medicine for NUMEROUS ailments.

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Thankfully, I don't have an addictive personality. Couldn't even get addicted to smoking regular cigarettes. I find it very easy to walk away from things with no burning desire to go back.

So not worried about the addictive properties at all. Also, I know I wouldn't be a daily user. Only when needed.

However, I have seen several friends who do smoke regularly loose some of their mental ability. You can watch it go over the years of very frequent use.

I have one friend who has a bad back, and none of the doctor prescribed meds help much. But pot does alleviate the pain. But at a cost. Her memory is largely shot.

Also, I had a brother who was a dealer many years ago. He did 2 years in jail once for it. I know first hand the risks and long term affects. I have NO desire to get hooked on anything, marijuana or shrooms. Am ultra careful with what I take, how much and how often.

The best approach me thinks.

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chs......i helped both of them set their rooms up and have been in the rooms many times and have also looked at their permits.Its legit !

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I remember reading a post of two saying how pot is normally bad for clusters. There was comments along the lines that it does the opposite thing to the blood vessels than we want it to (shrinks them when we want them expanded, or vice versa)

The idea was that blood vessel constrictors were good, dilators bad...This was said for both migraines and cluster headaches, but this has proven to not be so true with marijuana.  Migraines respond very favorably to marijuana in many many cases.  This would be a case of a supposed "vascular headache" (something clusters and migraines have been lumped into by doctors with an antiquated notion of how these headaches work) responding to a heavy duty blood vessel dilator. 

Another example showing the inaccurices in the idea of blood vessel dilators=bad is here, 2 blood vessel dilators that have shown to be a good help for migraine

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1526-4610.2011.01910.x/abstract

I could write for hours on this, but most of what I would say I've already said in this thread-    http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1242417046/0  (I would start on the first page, but make sure to read all 3.)

During an attack, forget about smoking.  It makes the the hit that started at a kip 5 a kip 8, which is NOT cool.

That sucks.  Remember though that it is always good to relate these experiences as personal experiences, not as general rules.  I do not have this reaction at all, and I know other Clusterheads that would say the same.

Like this guy-

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19220500

I have one friend who has a bad back, and none of the doctor prescribed meds help much. But pot does alleviate the pain. But at a cost. Her memory is largely shot.

Marijuana can effect the memory, but it's good to remember that chronic pain can do about the same (or worse). 

I toke everyday (many days quite heavily)  and the folks that know me are somewhat amazed by my memory.  I don't think I know anyone that can remember things as clearly and vividly as I usually do.

My experience has been this--Cannabis has been one of the most helpful drugs that I have ever found for my clusters.  This week alone I have toked every day pretty heavy because I wanted to stop my ketamine for a while and it completely got me through it.  It did not erase my pain, but it brought it down quite a few notches.  A couple times it did completely erase my pain, but only when I combined it with a heavy dose of coffee.  It makes my ketamine work a thousand percent better, making it so I can take less.  Although I hardly ever take opiates anymore, when I was I had the same experience--I was able to take much less of an extremely addictive drug.

Two last thoughts that I will copy from my ch.com post

"to me, it really is no surprise that we have such varied reactions to Cannabis.  I know many people that have tried recreational marijuana, and you will hear some people say it makes them anxious, some it calms them down.    For some it wakes them up, for some it makes them sleepy.  Some it inspires creativity, some it makes them stupid and stoned.  My guess is that individual brain chemistry and cannabanoid receptor differences makes it so that all sorts of people get different reactions."

and

"After the the number of people that I have talked to claiming that cannabis HAS worked for them, I actually recommend it now--mostly because if you are one of the lucky ones that it actually works for, you have a non-toxic remedy available for you. (no small feat in the world of cluster headache drugs) The stipulation with my recommending this, is that you should make sure that you have an imitrex shot, some O2, or some other quick acting abortive ready in case you are one of the ones that it doesn't work for."

-Ricardo

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Brilliant post there Ricardo,  [smiley=thumbup.gif] and impressive use of the word "stipulation".  ;D

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Took two pages right out of my mouth, thanks Ricardo. It's not POT, unless your just getting high. Medical marijuana is on the card issued. Medical cannabis is the proper term. Or dope if were out fishin. This is powerful medication for many conditions and should be treated as such. There are cannabis receptors in our brain for a reason. We produce endocannabinoids naturally. Mine are low.. :) Really, banning substances claiming no medicinal value is unreasonable considering all of the research out there. Condsider comparing the death rate between opiates and cannabis. :P

Cannabis containing higher THC content will produce anxiety. Cannabis with higher CBD content will produce euphoria and relaxation. Smoking also promotes anxiety compared to ingestion. Relax=indica  Get high and up= sativa

A nice blend will work ;)

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I'm a stoner. I effin love weed, but when I'm in a cycle it is the worst thing for me. I Dan smoke and a min later I'm on the floor.

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