Does anyone know if they make Oxygen Concentrators with an LPM > 10?

[bounty]

So a number of years ago when the Dr. prescribed me oxygen they gave me the tanks, but they also gave me an O2 concentrator.  Years later I'm still lugging that thing around through about 10 moves.  The thing is heavy!  But anyways, I'm going through a cycle and I haven't been to a doctor in my new city and haven't got a script for O2, but I still have my concentrator.  Low and behold - it works pretty good surprisingly even at a max lpm of maybe 10 or 12 according to the meter.  Do they make concentrators with a higher lpm?  This one is knocking them out just fine, but feel an even higher lpm would knock them out even faster!  This model is an integra.  The plus side to a concentrator is no refills...it just does it's thing.  

 

Thanks for anyone's response.

[Dallas Denny]

Hi bounty

The good news here is that a concentrator actually works at all for you! They only supply around 95% oxygen which is completely useless for most of us. I have read posts of folks coupling 2 machines together for a cumulative higher flow rate but it's still not 100% pure oxygen!

Dallas Denny

[Pebblesthecorgi]

You are fortunate it works for all the reasons DD states.  It would be nice not to have to be friends with Airgas

[john2000]

There are no concentrators over 10LPM for home use.

What they do is ,run them in series , at the same LPM.

If you need 16LPM , they would set them up at 8 and 8

ALso yours must be 10LPM, I dont think it goes over 10LPM even if you can set it up higher then 10 

As others have said, you are getting less then 100%, with older con. it is probably at around 90%, you can find out in specs online

At least get a mask that has flaps on both sides and keep it really tight to your face , if you have that standard soft plastic mask. 

If you have one hole opened , you are getting only about 70% with 100% O2 and with con. 60%.

Or get a CH mask to reduce mixing with air and to achieve the highest possible concentration.

[CHfather]

bounty, when you say the concentrator works pretty good, what does that mean in terms of the time it typically takes to stop an attack?

[ThatHurtsMyHead]

I think the idea of having a concentrator that goes over 8 lpm is great in theory, but VERY bad in practical application (IMHO).  If a person was to pass out after a hit (or have that post hit exhaustion, that puts us in an immediate deep sleep).  If said person left their mask on, and continued to breath 100% O2 with the machine continuing to run.  That person would have a high likelihood of damaging or even dying from Atelectasis (collapse of the Alveoli - air sacks in the lungs).   Alveoli collapse can start as soon as 30 minutes of being on 100% O2.  Alveoli require Nitrogen to stay filled and exchange O2 with carbon dioxide properly.  Breathing 100% O2 eventually causes "Wash Out" where all the nitrogen is eventually exhaled and replaced by either O2 or carbon dioxide.

 

I don't mean to scare anyone, but O2 can be very dangerous if staying on it longer than 30 minutes.  If a person were to accidentally stay on it for 6+ hours while sleeping would very likely cause significant lung damage.

 

As long as we use O2 tanks, there's little chance we would cause significant damage to our lungs.  Once the tank runs out, we (most of the time) naturally wake up gasping for breath / air / o2.  

 

Hope this helps.

J

[john2000]

You are right about O2 poisoning possibility,

 

But my tank would run for 5H before it ran out.

I think that the solution is :Don't use a strap on a mask, hold it to your face.I do it like this.I feel better when I push it against my face.

When the pain is gone , I can put on a strap for 15min,when I'm sure I won't fall asleep.

[Racer1_NC]

I think the idea of having a concentrator that goes over 8 lpm is great in theory, but VERY bad in practical application (IMHO).  If a person was to pass out after a hit (or have that post hit exhaustion, that puts us in an immediate deep sleep).  If said person left their mask on, and continued to breath 100% O2 with the machine continuing to run.  

J

A concentrator is not able to dispense 100% o2.

[john2000]

A concentrator is not able to dispense 100% o2.

Mine does 95%, but 100% O2 works almost instantly , concentrator was like 15min,,,,I used it too,before I Knew about the necessity of 100% O2.

[xxx]

Hey Bounty,

 

Allow me to offer a different opinion and option regarding the use of an oxygen concentrator.  In researching why oxygen regulators with flow rates high enough to support hyperventilation and oxygen demand valves were more effective with shorter CH abort times than a constant flow regulator at 15 liters/minute, I found that lowering serum CO2 was a key component in obtaining fast and reliable CH aborts.  A lower arterial CO2 content elevates the arterial pH (more alkaline) and this is a more powerful vasoconstrictor than oxygen even at 95% purity from the oxygen concentrator.  The elevated alveolar pH enables blood hemoglobin to upload roughly 15% more oxygen so this turbocharges the blood oxygen flow to the brain to help make the abort even faster and more reliable.

 

Around 2011 I developed a new method of oxygen therapy called Hyperventilation and Oxygen Therapy that has proven to be just as effective as a 40 liter/minute regulator or an oxygen demand valve in delivering rapid and reliable CH aborts.  It essentially calls for hyperventilating at forced vital capacity tidal volumes with room air for 30 seconds followed by the inhalation of a lungful of 100% oxygen that's held for 30 seconds before exhaling into the room and repeating the hyperventilation with room air.  Hyperventilating with room air accomplishes the same thing as hyperventilating with a regulator set at 40 liters/minute or an oxygen demand valve except it uses no oxygen.  The only oxygen consumed with this method of oxygen therapy is the inhaled lungful ~ 4 liters, that's held for 30 seconds.

 

This method of oxygen therapy consumes roughly 4 liters of oxygen a minute and results in an average abort time of 7 minutes for a total of 28 liters of oxygen per abort.  That's roughly a tenth the amount of oxygen consumed with each abort with an oxygen demand valve or high flow regulator set at 40 liters/minute.

 

I also invented what I call the Red Neck Oxygen Reservoir Bag made out of a clean 40 gal trash bag or 30 gal kitchen garbage bag.  I use a plastic Coke bottle with its cap and the bottom cut off as the mouthpiece, the tubing from an old disposable non-rebreathing oxygen mask, some electrician's tap and some Duck tape.  After the Coke bottle mouthpiece has been inserted through one corner of the bag's bottom and the oxygen tubing through the other corner, I seal both with electrician's tape for an air tight seal then close the open end of the bag with a strip of Duck tape as illustrated in the following photos.

 

 

It turns out my Red Neck Reservoir bag works exceptionally well with an oxygen concentrator.  You make sure the cap is secure on the Coke bottle then plug the oxygen tubing into the barb fitting on the oxygen concentrator and turn it on.  When the Red Neck Reservoir is filled completely, turn off the oxygen concentrator.  The Red Neck Reservoir is now ready for use to abort a CH using the method described above.  All you need to do is unscrew the Coke bottle cap to inhale the lungful of oxygen then replace the cap.

 

Other than the cost at less than $1, there's one more benefit of this contraption... There is no inhalation resistance.

 

Hope this helps...

 

Take care and please keep us posted.

 

V/R, Batch

[bounty]

I want to make a statement.  I am in no way saying that a concentrator is BETTER than a tank.  In fact, I had tanks and can say that at a high flow rate they are without a DOUBT better.  I'm just saying that there are times when tanks run out or, like me, you are episodic and get caught between an attack and between moves with no tanks and the concentrator is saving me.  Without it I would be up **** creek.  I just would like to have an updated one on hand as extra insurance should I be caught in a situation where I am without meds and/or tanks.  

[bounty]

bounty, when you say the concentrator works pretty good, what does that mean in terms of the time it typically takes to stop an attack?

 

About twice as long as it takes on tanks.  My tanks could stop an attack in under 10 minutes and my concentrator tends to be closer to the 15-20 mark and there are some really bad attacks it can't kick.  I had one on Sunday that energy drinks and constantly sucking on the tube wouldn't kick.  

[bounty]

Hey Bounty,

 

Allow me to offer a different opinion and option regarding the use of an oxygen concentrator.  In researching why oxygen regulators with flow rates high enough to support hyperventilation and oxygen demand valves were more effective with shorter CH abort times than a constant flow regulator at 15 liters/minute, I found that lowering serum CO2 was a key component in obtaining fast and reliable CH aborts.  A lower arterial CO2 content elevates the arterial pH (more alkaline) and this is a more powerful vasoconstrictor than oxygen even at 95% purity from the oxygen concentrator.  The elevated alveolar pH enables blood hemoglobin to upload roughly 15% more oxygen so this turbocharges the blood oxygen flow to the brain to help make the abort even faster and more reliable.

 

Around 2011 I developed a new method of oxygen therapy called Hyperventilation and Oxygen Therapy that has proven to be just as effective as a 40 liter/minute regulator or an oxygen demand valve in delivering rapid and reliable CH aborts.  It essentially calls for hyperventilating at forced vital capacity tidal volumes with room air for 30 seconds followed by the inhalation of a lungful of 100% oxygen that's held for 30 seconds before exhaling into the room and repeating the hyperventilation with room air.  Hyperventilating with room air accomplishes the same thing as hyperventilating with a regulator set at 40 liters/minute or an oxygen demand valve except it uses no oxygen.  The only oxygen consumed with this method of oxygen therapy is the inhaled lungful ~ 4 liters, that's held for 30 seconds.

 

This method of oxygen therapy consumes roughly 4 liters of oxygen a minute and results in an average abort time of 7 minutes for a total of 28 liters of oxygen per abort.  That's roughly a tenth the amount of oxygen consumed with each abort with an oxygen demand valve or high flow regulator set at 40 liters/minute.

 

I also invented what I call the Red Neck Oxygen Reservoir Bag made out of a clean 40 gal trash bag or 30 gal kitchen garbage bag.  I use a plastic Coke bottle with its cap and the bottom cut off as the mouthpiece, the tubing from an old disposable non-rebreathing oxygen mask, some electrician's tap and some Duck tape.  After the Coke bottle mouthpiece has been inserted through one corner of the bag's bottom and the oxygen tubing through the other corner, I seal both with electrician's tape for an air tight seal then close the open end of the bag with a strip of Duck tape as illustrated in the following photos.

 

 

It turns out my Red Neck Reservoir bag works exceptionally well with an oxygen concentrator.  You make sure the cap is secure on the Coke bottle then plug the oxygen tubing into the barb fitting on the oxygen concentrator and turn it on.  When the Red Neck Reservoir is filled completely, turn off the oxygen concentrator.  The Red Neck Reservoir is now ready for use to abort a CH using the method described above.  All you need to do is unscrew the Coke bottle cap to inhale the lungful of oxygen then replace the cap.

 

Other than the cost at less than $1, there's one more benefit of this contraption... There is no inhalation resistance.

 

Hope this helps...

 

Take care and please keep us posted.

 

V/R, Batch

I lurk way more than I post.  I have been using your breathing method since I read about it several years ago and swear by it.  It is IMO way more important than the LPM.  I have, humorously, had built my own "redneck resevoir" as the pictures you posted to get the most out of my concentrator.  Your setup is much more "lasting" and better done - I think i'm going to try your version - seems like it's more "built to last."  It seems like one thing us clusterheads have in common is we are very resourceful when it comes to trying to tame this beast.  

[bounty]

I think the idea of having a concentrator that goes over 8 lpm is great in theory, but VERY bad in practical application (IMHO).  If a person was to pass out after a hit (or have that post hit exhaustion, that puts us in an immediate deep sleep).  If said person left their mask on, and continued to breath 100% O2 with the machine continuing to run.  That person would have a high likelihood of damaging or even dying from Atelectasis (collapse of the Alveoli - air sacks in the lungs).   Alveoli collapse can start as soon as 30 minutes of being on 100% O2.  Alveoli require Nitrogen to stay filled and exchange O2 with carbon dioxide properly.  Breathing 100% O2 eventually causes "Wash Out" where all the nitrogen is eventually exhaled and replaced by either O2 or carbon dioxide.

 

I don't mean to scare anyone, but O2 can be very dangerous if staying on it longer than 30 minutes.  If a person were to accidentally stay on it for 6+ hours while sleeping would very likely cause significant lung damage.

 

As long as we use O2 tanks, there's little chance we would cause significant damage to our lungs.  Once the tank runs out, we (most of the time) naturally wake up gasping for breath / air / o2.  

 

Hope this helps.

J

 

I'm not a fan of the masks personally.  I find it much easier to apply the breathing method that batch mentioned when sucking straight from the pipe/bag.  Just personal preference.  Been lurking on your mesculine implementation and wishing you the best of PF days.  

[bounty]

 

What they do is ,run them in series , at the same LPM.

 

Now this is very interesting.  I do data analytics and big data for a living so am very familiar with parallel processing.  I might just get an added machine.  

[bounty]

Sorry for all the posts and replies.  Has anyone ever tried having a concentrator and mask as a preventative?  Just go to sleep with the thing on hoping it prevents before it begins while in cycle?  I might need to try this.

[john2000]

"It seems like one thing us clusterheads have in common is we are very resourceful when it comes to trying to tame this beast. "

 

Yes, especially when a new cycle begins after months of no CH, and you are trying to hook up the bottle, finding the mask , fixing the leaky  the regulator at 2am,  all in the dark ,because of super light sensitivity while knowing  you have about 2min to do all or else it will be hell.  

 

    

[john2000]

Sorry for all the posts and replies.  Has anyone ever tried having a concentrator and mask as a preventative?  Just go to sleep with the thing on hoping it prevents before it begins while in cycle?  I might need to try this.

 

If you are getting 90% O2 with a concentrator , then it may not be the best idea to fall asleep like this.

If you use a mask with one hole on  the side, they will be safe or safer. (60% O2)

One problem will be very dry nose and throat after uninterrupted use.You will need a humidifier bottle added . 

I dont believe a home concentrator has a built in humudity control. Maybe it is little less dry  then O2 from a bottle, not sure.

 

What helped me with night CH attacks while I'm in the cycle was melatonin right before I fall aslepp from 10-20mg , or higher. CHfather made many posts about it already  .

 

You could try the O2 as a prevention ,but I'd ask a doctor about long term exposure to x% O2 and adding water bottle will help you too.

[john2000]

Now this is very interesting.  I do data analytics and big data for a living so am very familiar with parallel processing.  I might just get an added machine.  

 Parallel of course, ,,,I had 2 before as well before I knew about the purity of O2 from them . They should have the same LPM SET on each ,but I'm not sure if it matters much , there is very little pressure . But they are very very expensive.

Anything at 8LMP - 10LPM will be new around $1200 and a used one maybe $700. I would buy a used only from a medical supply store, because they test it in regards to purity of O2 it produces before they sell it.

 

 

 

http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/uploadedimages.php?viewid=268847

[ThatHurtsMyHead]

All,

 

To provide more specific information.  yes an O2 concentrator can cause Nitrogen washout (and either damage or kill you).  I don't mean to be to stand up on the subject but everyone should be crystal clear on the dangers and not think a concentrator is save to sleep with using a non rebreather mask (it is not).

 

I have an O2 concentrator and it produces 96+% pure O2 after a 10 minute warm up period.  (yes I've tested it, as I use it for mixing my dive gases).  Nitrogen is the only gas removed via a concentrator "scrub".  Other trace gasses pass through.  So in effect my concentrator reduces the nitrogen content from 78% down to 2% to 3% nitrogen.  3% nitrogen is reduced enough to cause lung damage and the Alveoli in your lungs to collapse due to Nitrogen wash out.

 

Again though, O2 is SAFE if used properly.  Please ALWAYS cut the straps from the mask, so you're not tempted to leave it on (and possibly pass out with it on).  100% O2 is my (and most people with CH) #1 go to for aborting attacks.  Don't be afraid to use it, but respect and be aware of the dangers.

 

PFW,

J

[ThatHurtsMyHead]

Snap of the O2 output on my Oxygen analyzer. 

[ThatHurtsMyHead]

Now this is very interesting.  I do data analytics and big data for a living so am very familiar with parallel processing.  I might just get an added machine.  

 Bounty,

 

Or you could use a brass "T" from the hardware store to add an O2 tank to your existing concentrator.  That way you could bump up the LPM while hitting the start of your hyperventilation.  Then turn the tank down as you slow your (Post peak hit) breathing.

 

I do love Batch's redneck bag trick.  

 

J

[john2000]

 Bounty,

 

Or you could use a brass "T" from the hardware store to add an O2 tank to your existing concentrator.  That way you could bump up the LPM while hitting the start of your hyperventilation.  Then turn the tank down as you slow your (Post peak hit) breathing.

 

I do love Batch's redneck bag trick.  

 

J

That's what I do when I have only  1h of O2 left and It has to last me for 2 days.

My concentrator saves me about 5times a year.

 

WHEN RUNNING LOW and  CH comes on:

 

 I would have the concentrator  running with the first shadows to heat it up (10min), or I just keep it running from the morning,,,,

 

first pain 

0-2min     =  Bottle at 25LPM   + Concentrator at 5LPM  =  99% of O2

2-5min     =  Bottle at 20LPM   + Concentrator at 10LPM=  98% of O2

5-10min   =  Bottle at 10LPM   + Concentrator at 5LPM  =  98%  of O2

10-30min =  Bottle at   5LPM   + Concentrator at 5LPM  =  97%  of O2

 

Concentrator at 94% O2

[bounty]

 Bounty,

 

Or you could use a brass "T" from the hardware store to add an O2 tank to your existing concentrator.  That way you could bump up the LPM while hitting the start of your hyperventilation.  Then turn the tank down as you slow your (Post peak hit) breathing.

 

I do love Batch's redneck bag trick.  

 

J

 

This is an awesome idea.  I need to figure out how to get an O2 tank here.  I move around a lot and switch jobs every few years so it's always a headache trying to re-establish myself where I go.