Baclofen revisited ( megadose, alcoholism)

[Sue mcdonald]

 

Dr. Ameisen developed interesting and successful protocol to use mega doses of baclofen to tx his alcoholism. Self reportedly successful. (La Denier Verre)

In 2008 France issued approval for use of baclofen as a tx for alcoholism. Ive seen so many referrals in literature all over, indications Baclofen can be helpful in cha tx program. Has anyone attempted to utlise mega doses of Baclofen to tx cha? Im notnotnot advocating for anyone to try this, not a medical proffesional in any way so i dont tx dx medical conditions. 

I am left wondering  IF the references to baclofen as adjunt tx for cha springs forth from the low back injury scenario causing nerve impulses to go up to brain where it ends with? Eh, voila! Histamine cha? My orthopedic surgeon referred to it as nerve root irritation. This would also align closely to mast cell activation syndrome (mcas) or even mastocytosis. If we hew strongly to that view then benedryl, atavan, dexamethasone (bad) is protocol most frequently utilised. But mcas is abt low back injury causing nerve irritation to trot up brain carrying info body is in pain? And mast cells break apart to release histamine. Areas most often affected we wld expect to see? Gut. Thyroid. Brain.

The mcas acts as a secondary immune defense to protect a body from injury/attack w large clusters of mast cells predominately around abdominal cavity, throat(by thyroid), and once again? Eh, voila-  Large amounts mast cells around brain.

Now... if baclofen rly helps cha? Due to being a skeletal muscle relaxant specifically developed for sciatic nerve pain (sharp, never ending, like a knife) . It would give further credence to the whole inflamation theory

Inflam-> histamine ->cha.

Okay.. so that lines up like dominoes:) Begs question: how wld microdosing hallcinogenic mushrooms affect the cha along the line of mcas n bad?

I read n read - the thot thats been lately popping up is hallucinogens change dna (im old, that was verbally tossed @ ALL the time back in 70s, that LSD wld change dna). I am left w thinking, again, that hallucinogens work via epigenetic manner to heal? Or to correct dna spooling up? Might baclofen also affect spooling of dna so gene area which causes alcoholism also gets overlaid correctly, albeit temporarily? Might be how/why halluucinogens work for tx cha.

[spiny]

They did state beck in the 70's that DNA was deformed by taking it. But, that has not been proven out. Living can and does distort/deform it. The original 'war on drugs' where we were fed a long line of garbage unfortunately.

I don't see CH as a histamine issue, but as a hypothalamus issue. I am not saying that histamine is not an issue, but that it originates in the hypothalamus. The theory is that we have deficiency of Serotonin. The holes for the Serotonin molecule are filled by the busting process. Is this fact? Don't know. Is it a theory? Yes. 

Happy hunting Sue, it is a conundrum. 

[Sue mcdonald]

Ahhhh, spiney. Its like cell signaling.  Just complex.

 

[Sue mcdonald]

Hypothalamus.   Histamine.  Low back.   Neck.   Thyroid.  Occipitals.  Nerve plexis back behind nose. Autonomous sympathetic nerve activation.

Endocrine system tanks, bs levels fall, bp goes sky hi, blood pumps hard n fast. Pain goes sky hi, instant severe deep depresion n anxiety (barely describes it tho).

One med report i read ('21). Stated they found a migraine gene, and they found areas on certain genes that wld account for triggering off certain ha sx. I again just have to think its dna coiling issue, not old fashioned thinking dna. So = Epigenetic. That somehow hallucinogens n/or meds cover, bridge over? Or reconfigure the places on genes where it activates the sx. Its almost more of a physical connection issue. Why wld diet, vit n min help? Again? Back to coiling. Im not the best at cell molecular level. Many min n vit's are co-enzymes, - like zinc. Necessary for proper cell activity, and dna replication. Give the body what it needs to be healthy and our bodies do have miraculous methods to repair damage. Altho, yes, DNA damage thru life happens, dna replication makes opps at times but im thinking the cha's are not oops incidents. 

I have hunted - and been successful 3 times - where others were not. I believe in myself, a lot. But again? There have been times i have hunted answers to med problems n not found answer. 

U put ur shoulder to the wall and push. Sometimes it gives. Its, like, a gift. 

[spiny]

8 hours ago, Sue mcdonald said:

U put ur shoulder to the wall and push. Sometimes it gives. Its, like, a gift. 

It would be fantastic to know the cause. Yes, they have found a genetic link for migraine and supposedly CH too. The search goes on.

[Sue mcdonald]

Real DNA changes wld indicate cancer. Cancer is defined as a change in the DNA that is permanent. W epigenetics u can have odd things happen (DNA is odd when i started school they said 1 theory of how DNA came? Is it came from outer space. I was like...okaaaaay- maybe? Took abt 3 yrs before i got the lightning strikes +ocean +meteorites/minerals +clay ground -- for it to make better sense. Geez i thot my conservative christian college was saying alien space invaders visited n gave us DNA :0 pgg pcc paraganglioma, pheochromocytoma, few typres may very well be cause if cha and migraines. Good docs? Good dx? Good friends? Helps ya down the road. Also ehlers danlos has popped up (w 18 sub varieties no less).. getting firm dx is always appropriate.

Edited December 19, 2021 by Sue mcdonald
Didnt want to.point a scary finger at ppl suffering grt pain n pronounce ipon them- aha cancer! Why pathologise it? Hard enuff

[Juss]

Edit: I always get the Baclofen screwed up, regardless it doesn't seem to help. They appeared to run off of limited evidence, and the same seems to apply to other commonly used medications. All of these just knock you out. That says a lot. I don't go down easy and can take a lot of medications, at one time. At one point, I was on at least 20 heavy hitters each month. 

 

 

 

 

[jon019]

32 minutes ago, Juss said:

I won't get into science because everyone just counters me on here, says I am wrong, and so forth.

....naw, that's the other forum...

33 minutes ago, Juss said:

Only a few on here are allowed to state a fact.

.....nope, and i got proof: "jon's a smart-ass"

37 minutes ago, Juss said:

the hypothalamus is the repeat offender, and that histamine is the aftermath. There are other factors.

...yup!

41 minutes ago, Juss said:

Regarding DNA changes, sure, our bodies change at a cellular level every 3 months. Let one of the science gods on here explain that. 

....."we don't know a millionth of one percent about anything" T. Edison   but if ya wanna talk about mooshies, yur in the right place

48 minutes ago, Juss said:

focus on diet, nutraceuticals, and the tried and true medications.

...used to volunteer for Lifelong....among other things they feed folks shunned by society. their motto: "food is medicine"...i like that, i believe that...

MERRY CHRISTMAS !    Juss

[Juss]

Merry Christmas @jon019. 

 

[Pebblesthecorgi]

Baclofen is not a NSAID it is a GABA antagonist.  Most commonly it is used as a muscle relaxant.  It has a tendency to make people feel dopey and dysphoric. 

A one off report of curing something as complex as alcoholism is problematic .   Most of the research in this area is inconsistent.  The use and withdrawal of baclofen can have serious consequences.

 

For our purposes there has been limited reports of baclofen use in treating cluster headaches.  An optomistic report of a case series in 2001 shoed promise but no follow up seems available.

 

Dealing with uncommon conditions like ours is problematic.  In the end it would be hard to argue against proper nutrition, balanced vitamin levels and a healthy lifestyle.  Easy to say, hard to execute.

[Juss]

I always get that one confused, my mistake. That stated, I never implied that it was easy to have a good diet, and obviously you didn't bother to read my post and instead just crapped on me. That is why I don't even know why I bother stating anything. I'm sorry that it doesn't suit your opinion and everything must foot a certain opinion. Christ Almighty I will edit it. Again, I always get the Baclofen screwed up, and I don't know anyone that has had luck, it is as bad as Gabapentin, or Zanaflex.

[CHfather]

37 minutes ago, Juss said:

obviously you didn't bother to read my post and instead just crapped on me. That is why I don't even know why I bother stating anything. I'm sorry that it doesn't suit your opinion and everything must foot a certain opinion.

spiny isn't a crapper-onner, and I don't think she was doing that here.  I think she was just observing that doing all the right dietary/nutritional things is tough.  In general, I think your posts receive more thought and respect than you think they do.  I read and re-read your long hypothalamus post, for example, and I often follow your links, but I really have had nothing to add.  Sometimes I disagree with things you say (your high regard for Dr. Amen comes to mind), but I figure people can read, research if they choose, and come to their own conclusions, and I prefer to use my time here on the most basic, practical kinds of help (get O2, do the D3, bust according to the protocols, etc.).  It's been said a thousand times here -- this awful condition inspires all kinds of searches, and each person's should be respected. This place was founded by people whose idea, busting, was mercilessly crapped on, and the D3 regimen was ridiculed when it was first put forward and for a long time after. (As jon' said, if you want to see crapping, take a look at the board from which this one was spun off, clusterheadaches.com.)

[Juss]

Edit: I understand and am quite familiar with one of the CH forums but I don't think it is the one you are discussing. He is quite the pharmaceutical front if it's the person that I think that you are talking about. If so, that hot mess began off of FB  years ago, when I belonged on that social media crap. If it is who I think you are talking about, I had numerous convos with that person back in God, 2012 thru 2014. To be fair, he started with good intentions; however, darker ulterior motives seemed to change that quickly. Again, if it is who I think it is, I was there in its infancy. 

I'm not a huge fan of Dr. Amen, but I do hold the derivatives of PET to have utility. From experience, you won't get any neuroimaging covered unless warranted, you know, stroking out. 10 years ago, pre-ACA, oh yeah, to refrain from politics, I will shut up. My point, I respect him, b/c his consult with imaging saves a few grand. FMRI, even DTI (Diffusion Tensor Imaging) has limitations for what I am attempting to accomplish, it costs more, and won't be covered.

I get frustrated, that is all. It was not at spiny, but at Pebble. I don't do well around people, don't have the patience, and don't bother to learn. I prefer to be in my world. 

 

[jon019]

6 minutes ago, Juss said:

I understand and am quite familiar with CH.com he is quite the pharmaceutical front if it's the person that I think that you are talking about. If so, that hot mess began off of FB  years ago, when I belonged on that social media crap. If it is who I think you are talking about, I had numerous convos with that person back in God, 2012 thru 2014. To be fair, he started with good intentions; however, darker ulterior motives seemed to change that quickly. Again, if it is who I think it is, I was there in its infancy.

...so was i and your narrative is incorrect. started/maintained in the 90's by DJ, a guy with clusters and NO resources to know what the f'k it was and how to deal with it. the archives there are chock full of incredible information that was unavailable ANYWHERE else. he and it literally saved lives and is the farthest thing from a "pharmaceutical front" imaginable. meds were talked about, OXYGEN and later D3 regimen emphasized, tough love on occasion....and always family......

[Juss]

Thank you @jon019i did state if I thought who it was and edited accordingly. But I can understand your guy's side. The person that I won't mention would report you if you so much as farted Vitamin M. You think I am joking? Anyway, I am grateful you guys allow open discussions, people don't understand (I think) how some close the door on that. I wasn't kidding, this guy even made it known. 

[spiny]

Juss, you are referring to a FB Group that is well known by many here. They are not 'us' and push/prefer Pharma for money reasons. You click, they make money. That group, is not any part of our group here and we were around for about a decade before they formed. And they will throw you out for mentioning MM.

Please, take a step back, reread some of our responses to your posts and think about it. We, as a group, have tried to understand you, help you, and support you. 

For BPD, Dialectical Behavior Therapy has proven highly effective. It was developed for BPD. My child, with this disorder, has had only one meltdown in 8 months since she finished BPD Therapy. Normally, she would have had at minimum 10-12 meltdowns. Her IQ, is above 150. As I suspect yours is. Which makes the disorder even more difficult. I have seen it for decades now. It is horrid. My heart hurts for you.

I wish you health and happiness. I wish you peace. I know that peace might be the most difficult thing to attain. 

For your posts on the board, please be kind and positive, or just scroll on by the post. 

spiny

 

 

[Shaun brearley]

Wow come on juss most of us on here support you buddy . I for 1 find your posts intriguing and interesting and have learnt so much from you buddy.  If you don't agree with something posted on here my friend as spiny has said just skip on by buddy it's really not worth the hassle . 

[CHfather]

2 hours ago, Juss said:

It was not at spiny, but at Pebble.

I'm sorry for somehow thinking it was spiny you were referring to -- there was no reason for me to think that.  I think this topic has been fully done now, so I'll just add that Pebbles' -- a great, generous person, with vast knowledge -- probably wasn't dissing you, either. 

Many of us here have relationships, both on the board and in off-the-board messages, that go back a lot of years.  I have had at least three substantial run-ins with prominent figures here, after each of which I thought, "I'm just gonna quit."  For better or worse, I'm still here, and, definitely for better, they are, too.  Dealing with electronic representations of actual humans is a tricky business.  

[CHfather]

39 minutes ago, spiny said:

My child, with this disorder, has had only one meltdown in 8 months since she finished BPD Therapy. Normally, she would have had at minimum 10-12 meltdowns.

That news warms my holidays so much! Wow.  

[Juss]

I was referring to that group and not this one. I must not have written in the proper language, and believe me, I was expressing my utmost respect to the group. I had a terrible experience 10+ years ago. That is what I was referring to. I don't like bringing that group up.

I didn't get results with DBT, too far gone. Mine requires a considerably more skilled therapist that employees transference, psychodynamic, schema, ACT, and other things. I meltdown far less, and won't get into it. Respectfully, DBT helps the milder forms, and if you want to wait for 2 years. Almost all BPD have exceptionally high IQ, if Borderpolar it walks a fine line between genius and insanity.

The Extremely High IQ is then matched with Artistic madness from Mixed Bipolar severe, which is the most extreme form. How you handle all of this is up to you. 

I will step back. Our world is different, how we process and see things is different. Some do well, some just avoid everything. I prefer to avoid. It’s easier. Some things can’t be fixed. That stated, I will give it 30 reads before hitting the send button. 
 

Other posts have come up, I won’t get to it now. I should be getting things done. 

Merry Christmas. Everyone, I understand the frustration, really, it’s cool. I’m signing off. 

 

[jon019]

2 hours ago, CHfather said:

Dealing with electronic representations of actual humans is a tricky business.  

...no truer words!...

.....made my living as a "professional observer". one of my heroes is Yogi Berra: "you can observe a lot by watching". nuance and complexity, a twinkle or a frown, are all lost with only pixels on a screen...

 

Edited December 21, 2021 by jon019