Bejeeber

Hey Rob, Since this D3 regimen originated over at the ch.com message board I imagine you'll get maximum replies there, but meantime I'm copying some stuff from over there as I think it may shed some light on the subject: "....regimen consists of the following: 2000-3000mg. Omega 3 fish Oil 10,000 I.U. vitamin D3 500 mg. Calcium (two calcium citrate tablets formulated with 800 mg. vitamin D3, 80 mg. magnesium and 10 mg. zinc. You can take the above all at once in the am or pm and try to wash it down with lemonade or limeade for the first week..... ......Calcium citrate and the citric acid from the lemonade combine in the stomach to form a buffer that should elevate your arterial pH to the upper end of the normal range. This will help stimulate vasoconstriction and that should help make the CH triggering mechanism less effective."

I get the thing about the big picture here, not advising people to put off trying the psychedelic treatments, etc., I think these are valid concerns. But I'm becoming concerned about an inadvertent, temporary chilling effect that could have real repercussions for new CH'ers/supporters coming here and getting little or no timely advice. CHfather, you've been the guy lately who's always been there in the trenches, quick to take on any newcomer and guide them through every facet of what they wish or need to find out about, then continually following up with them. I really can't express how much I admire that. I'm not seeing you around today and it looks to me (over reaction?) like things could be threatening to go to hell a bit at the moment. Today I'm the only one who has responded to JustAddWater in his "Same questions, new guy", topic. Not good. I'm trying, but need some backup with him and the "New to Site...no idea what I'm doing" topic. This is some serious sh*t that's in danger of neglected in my view, so if we've run CHfather off now - the main guy, the really organized, well researched guy who was doing the most heavy lifting in regards to getting in there and really helping individuals on a case by case basis, how about those members who want to keep the forum focused on psychedelics going in and picking up some of the slack? We have people asking about busting and specifically seeds and mushrooms.... [Edit: I see that the angelic DereksGirl has just posted a late night reply to JustAddWater, so I'm not feeling quite as cold and all alone , just jonesin' for some CHfather. :'(]

RC reportedly can be a hallucinogen in very high doses, but that sort of dose would be much higher than a therapeutic CH dose. At a fairly generous 40-50 seeds before bed CH dose, the main side effect for me (and for others who have reported the same here) is a better than usual night's sleep. I've found it to definitely be much more mild acting than a therapeutic dose of mushrooms.

Sounds like you might be better off with RC (Rivea Corymbosa) seeds for busting to start with - and maybe finish with too - since they are legal to order and possess. That is if there indeed won't be any testing for LSA, which is the active busting ingredient in RC.

Hi Justy, O2 - as in high flow 100% O2, not the commonly prescribed low flow/rebreather O2 - is an absolute must for you IMO. I would personally also hop right on that specific D3 for CH regimen, even if that's not the exact focus of this forum. Another very important thing I think is to try to find out exactly what sort of drug testing is done, because the way I've heard it, testing for something like LSA or psilocybin is expensive and not usually done. You could be in the clear and ready to bust (??).

Happy Bee Day 1961'er!

Hi Glenna, I just replied to your post over at ch.com, going into a bit of detail advising the high flow O2, Vitamin D3 regimen, energy drinks, and of course busting. I think it's also important to note here that Dr. Kundu doesn't appear to know jack about treating CH. :'( I figure you'll wanna drop him like a hot Tennessee tater. (I'm currently in TN too, so I'm giving myself license to talk like that ;D) Stay tuned - if you're lucky some fantastique additional advice will be forthcoming from CHfather et al. 8-)

I talked a doctor into giving me a magnesium sulfate I.V. once with great expectations. I had to pull over on the way home from the I.V. and whip out an injector. The I.V. did nuthin' whatsoever for me. :-?

Here's what I said in a previous D3 topic I started: What may be bad about that is the more I see how things are progressing over at the original D3 topic at ch.com, the more it's starting to look to me like following the regimen to the letter may be important. Plus there's talk now about it potentially taking 3 weeks to kick in for some folks. Sorry for any misinformation I may have laid on y'all. :-[ :-[

Hey Anthony, here ya be: http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cb/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?board=conference [Edit: but it looks like FunGuy supplied more direct links below] And here's a very important note about the urgency of booking yer hotel room immediately (personally I'm heartbreakingly still not sure whether I'll be able to attend, but I'm going to book me a cancel-able room in hopes....) :

It's Clustermammy's birfday??!! ;D Woop it up for us in large quantities! [smiley=birthdays.gif] [smiley=2vrolijk_08.gif]

Hi Thoro, I think your Norwegian compatriot tingeling just dished out the real good advice there. That's the same way I prepare and dose with RC. Alternatives for crushing the seeds are mortar and pestle or a pepper grinder. I also take them before bed and my main side effect is the same as tingeling's - a better than usual night's sleep. I do experience an extremely brief moment of nausea before falling asleep, not a big problem. I know that some people have busted successfully while on the calcium channel blocker verapamil, but it is more ideal of course to be completely detoxed from the crap they just try out on you. That SUCKS(!!!!) that your first order of RC got screwed up like that. > :(

Best of luck Anthony - I bet it'll be a good move!

Good idea about trying the oxygen Rob! Although CH is theorized to be hypothalamus borne, I've seen folks report onset or dramatic worsening of CH following a head injury, so personally I'm pretty convinced that it can be a factor.

Whoa! The official debut of the Fustercluckers! ;D At the OUCH conference with sooooo many guitarists stinking up the joint I was offering my theory to Giuseppi (guitar) and Brew (bass) that it's the nickel from the strings seeping into our systems that has caused our CH.Â

Hi Jules, Most of us find that the pill form of imitrex is just minimally effective, period. The injection form on the other hand is much more effective.

Personally I've always taken them right before bed, and I know many others do this also. With a 50+ seed dose, I often experience just about exactly *1 minute* of nausea, then I experience the one other very common side effect: A better night's sleep than usual. I doubt you'll feel jack with a little 25 seed dose, but hey maybe it's best to proceed cautiously while testing the waters and ramp up for any following doses.

Hi Rod, I've heard some say that busting can be possible while on verapamil, but I'm not an expert on that, not recommending it, just kinda trying to bring it up as a discussion point here. Of course what I'd really hope (but not go so far as to assume) is that you could get some prevention with the D3, and I'll just add that personally I'm going for 15,000 IU per day, which I think is reasonable. I'm going to quote the eminently quotable CHfather right now, because the D3 protocol sounds like a no brainer (or a no pain brainer? ) for you to try: "I'd urge you to consider beginning right now the simple, inexpensive vitamin D3 protocol that has helped many, many people quickly and also lastingly. Take about 10,000 international units per day of vitamin D3, taken with food; 2 or 3 calcium citrate tablets per day, with or without food (ideally, these tablets should also contain magnesium and zinc); and 3,000-5,000 mg per day of Omega 3 fish oil, with food. You can find these ingredients in a pharmacy or drug store. Many people find that a glass or two of lemonade or limeade per day with meals increases the effectiveness. Many people start getting significant relief within a day or two. The levels I listed above are the "default" levels--you might wish to adjust according to your own tolerance. These are not "megadoses"--all are within standard recommended daily allowances except the D3, which is high but not inordinately so. To read a great deal more about the D3 regimen, you could wade through the following thread:" http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1291969416/0

What CHfather said. Exactly. Yep if you haven't tried the high flow non-rebreather O2 (much more effective than how doctors ordinarily prescribe it), it could become a critical abortive for you, and along with the D3 could enable you to detox from the drugs. The high LPM O2 absolutely works for a very high percentage of us. The D3 I'm not sure how high a percentage because it's relatively new, but I think it's very worth trying because we're seeing more and more CH'ers - including chronics - reporting going into remission with it's use. My opinion as someone with a 30+ year history with episodic CH that has included a zillion prescriptions is that mushrooms are a much better long term solution than drugs including lithium, but you might as well find out what happens with the O2 and D3 first, then take it from there. Oh yeah, and more often than not doctors are completely clueless a-holes when it comes to CH. I've learned to never trust one as far as I could throw one.

Hi Christina, I haven't personally used welder's O2, but I did bookmark a web page about it's use for CH. Here it is - I hope it has the sort of info you're looking for: http://morrobayphotos.com/ch/O2primer.htm If you ever find that we're not supplying enough details on O2 here, it can be worth asking about in a post over at the sister forum http://www.clusterheadaches.com/wwwboard2/index.html, and there'll be a good chance you could get in email contact with the resident O2/D3 guru "Batch" there - he often PMs people who post on the subject.

I like the direction this is going in (miniaturization!). Even more hopeful for CH I think is the new technology testing is supposed to begin on soon that Goadsby touched on at the July OUCH conference, which involves NO implant. You just position a little hand held device near your trigeminal and it emits some technological wave of something or other that aborts your attack, with benefits supposedly lasting for more than one attack. Could this really be possible? Can you imagine what it could mean for CH'ers, especially the small percentage whom busting doesn't work for?

Christina, the link Dereksgirl shared with you for stretching the imitrex doses is a critical one IMO while you're still needing to use imitrex. I've certainly used this approach more than a hundred times in the past (before I was busting) and found it to be invaluable for those times when I couldn't get to the O2.

I was at The OUCH conference last month with a bunch of CH'ers, many of them middle aged and older, and they were such a sharp bunch that I practically felt like I was at a Mensa convention (but without the the egotistical nerdliness I imagine you'd find amongst the Mensa rank and file ), and that eases my mind about lasting damage from CH. So I will go ahead and hang onto my hunks'n chunks. Good thinkin', Fun Guy. ;D

Hi Christina, CHfather is right - Sumatriptan is imitrex, and it is considered to interfere with RC/busting, sorry. This is one of the reasons we're driving you cuckoo by pushing the O2 so rabidly - it's the effective abortive that won't interfere with busting.

Whenever someone ends up in the ER I know they're getting hit really hard. Very sorry to hear about that Christina. At least there was that good news above from CHfather about the RC - yep you could order them now and potentially have them Wednesday, ready for consumption (after crushing them and soaking them for 2 hours - no growing required), as long as you haven't taken any meds that would interfere. $70 a day for a tank does sound just crazy exorbitant, way overpriced - I don't know what they could be thinking. >