Purple

no Jeebs, that document just lists towards the end different Medicinal uses of entheogenically derived substances " Arguably the most successful product developed following entheogenic research has been hydergine, a valuable geriatric medicine used as a cerebral vasodilator. It improves oxygenation of the brain(...)" First time I hear of it. Thanks for sharing holygrailmushrooms. It's really interesting. here is some links http://www.biogenesis-antiaging.com/product_info.php?products_id=102 http://www.erowid.org/smarts/hydergine/hydergine_info1.shtml http://www.erowid.org/search.php?q=hydergine http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydergine vasodilatator and helps with hypertension http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/9/1/48.full.pdf I'm not sure what it would do for CH, but I'd like to try it as a "smart drug" and go back to university maybe we should start a new thread...

thanks for informing me of that, CHfather When I'm not in cycle, I find difficult to keep up with everything here... ...actually, being on this board always tickles the beast, so I never stay long... could be same way of action as Pavlov's bells? LOL

Hi Whooligun, congrats for baby!! I had missed you back, so Welcome Back. I bet the fungus could help with withdrawal ?? I don't know, I'm actually throwing this question in the discussion

Other than discussing the way the French call CH which I find incorrect and ugly (algie vasculaire de la face, litterally: face vascular suffering), I was replying to Lemaire that I don't think there are lobbies of pharmaceutical pushing to refrain the development of BOL-148 since there so few of us clusterheads and that we represent just a tiny dot in potential or lost sales... but that if BOL-148, shrooms, LSD can treat migraines, then maybe yes, the lobbies are playing a part in this slow-evolving issue. so maybe the pharmas know something we don't? I mean I know shrooms can treat migraines, but to what extent do they know that?

Salutations du Québec, Lemaire :-) ...j'ai toujours trouvé particulier l'entêtement de la France à appeler notre affligeant mal "algie vasculaire de la face", ce que je trouve vraiment inesthétique d'une part comme appellation, et plutôt incorrect médicalement... ça limite le mal à un problème vasculaire et dans la face (visage peut-être?) haha en tout cas à toutes les fois que je lis ça, je ris.... je trouve que ça fait pas sérieux comme nom de maladie En tout cas ici, en anglais, le problème de l'appellation porte plutôt sur la portion céphalée (headache)... les gens ici ne sont pas d'avis que ce sont des maux de tête et proposent généralement plutôt Cluster Attacks et donc ...personne sur la planète ne s'entend sur la cause de notre mal, son origine, non plus que sur son appelllation, quelle que soit la langue... Une chose est certaine: on est tous dans le même club... Mais je ne suis pas sûr franchement qu'il y ait des lobbys pour empêcher l'avancement du BOL-148 bien qu'il soit vrai qu'une éventuelle perte de ventes de triptans... mais les clients souffrant de cluster attacks ne représentent rien en termes de ventes ou de pertes, on n'est vraiment très peu dans le club... Par contre j'admets que, si le LSD, le BOL-148, les champis peuvent traiter les migraines, alors là , là ... oui, les lobbys, ça se peut, parce que les migraineux, eux, y sont beaucoup. En tout cas, ça fait plaisir de pouvoir m'exprimer plus librement dans ma langue, merci de m'en avoir donné l'occasion, et bienvenue sur Clusterbusters

I have read, think it was Hofmann, that if kept away from light and moisture, LSD can keep its potency forever.

Sounds interesting, but the link is broken :-)

Oh, I now feel a bit stupid after claiming I did quite a few search... that I didn't know David E. Nichols who created LSZ, and had never heard of Al-LAD which is in TIKHAL... well there is a lot to learn haha... I wonder though how one can get their hands on such compounds

Hi Libertas, welcome here. I'm very interested in finding out more about the substances you mention and that I never heard of, their history, why and by who they were created, their differences and similarities (trip wise and chemically wise) with LSD, DOI, psilo... and possibly what receptors they might hit, and other findings. I'm certainly no expert but I've been reading and searching quite a bit recently on LSD and psilo and many other compounds and their mechanisms of action in the brain, and any link or any info you can provide on them I will try to digest with pleasure.

I use the Firefox browser, and the Adblock addon for Firefox, therefore I see not the ads and banners you're talking about, nor do I most of any other ads, even at the start of YouTube videos. go adfree with Firefox. Had to visit CB with Chrome to see what you were talking about... Now that I do, I agree that ways should be sought to exit this Google ad program and keep CB free of any ads... but I only get the Paypal ads, because since I don't use Chrome for google searches, Google doesn't know me (on Chrome)... I visited Paypal though a couple hours ago so that's why it's linking me with Paypal. The Google ad program will only pay CB for the clicks on the ads. Else than miscliks, I don't see many possible clicks in a year with so few members and action on the site, so I see no reason to keep it, since it probably generates very, very little earnings. Apparently, Yahoo Search doesn't track your searches, and I've been trying this new search tool who promises not to track and seems reliable: DuckDuck Go. Certainly most searches I do on Google is tracked and analysed and scrutinized... by Google, for the commercial purpose of linking me with sites who sell what I need (Google knows that by scrutininzing us if using Chrome (Google's browser) or if using Google Search with any other browser). Google certainly knows me better than I can possibly know myself LOL... but he's a nice Big Brother, he gets me my info for free and links me to the best deals of what he knows I need If the how do you call it the DEA wants to get info, they probably just need to search for it, there is not much to do about it. But Google probes us ALL THE TIME and keep the information and analyse it... The Friendly Big Brother might be more dangerous than any DEA or federal anything

very interesting Brad. That reaches the theory I came to during this cycle that any of our busting agents are also trigger agents. Like ice is one of my best aborters, but anything too cold is likely to trigger one if I'm off cycle. Twice during this cycle, I had (or anyways thought I had) ended the cycle, or almost, busted again to kill it for good, then it was back at full strenght. But I've had energy drinks off cycle that didn't trigger anything.

I don't like Stella has more hops and therefore more soporific, and I would guess it's more likely to get you to see Leonard. I have nothing more intelligent to say than that, else maybe that CH morphes over time, might switch side... barometric pressure sure is a factor but cannot in my opinion explain it all. You are very brave to do that. I wouldn't.

Jeff, I think it is a controled substance since it's modified LSD, and that's why studies with BOL is complicated. And if you read the thread I linked to, ub, graduate in chemistry explains that it might not be pure... Its intended for chemists (who can check and make sure what it is, purity, etc.), not for users.

I had missed the thread related to the vagus nerve and that's interesting... http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cb/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1335193293 interesting also that in French, that nerve is called vague, which means unclear in English. Oh, I see vague also means that in English... confusing. But reading about the gammaCore® device, I'm not too reassured and frankly I'm not sure they know what their device does exactly, so I'm not sure I want to try it even if it's available here. I'll probably talk about it with my GP. It vaguely sounds like modern witchcraft to me. ;D But the the vagus nerve... I always felt my clusters were directly related to my gut, and... More reading ahead

Moxie, as far as I know, it is very well known for chemists how to make BOL-148, it has been used many times in the 1950's for testings (in LSD studies), what is in its early stages as I understand is its use for cluster headaches. I also understand that its difficult to get it approved for testing on cluster headaches because the 1950s testing of BOL is rejected by officials because they say it's too ancient testing, but that testing has been done. Correct me if I'm wrong anyone. In this (very interesting) thread, ub who is a student in chemistry warns about ordering from these sites... it could even be dangerous. It is only for specialized users. http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cb/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1366604907

Kleinsopp, that's great!! Can we get a link for that? Google translate could get us a somewhat acceptable glimpse of the content. I think it's always good for advocating the cause, in any language. You can get LSD and BOL-148 legally? really? who manufactures it?

Until I came to Clusterbusters, I never really noticed my cycles came at any specific times. When my sister in law told me (my brother is (was?) a sufferer and she was the one who researched and diagnosed him, and me) some 20 years ago that they come at equinoxes and/or solstices, I just didn't believe her and went on suffering and not believe. But she was right. My cycles start around equinoxes or solstices mostly. Are my attacks longer? hmmm no... hard to tell, I learned how to control them. I learned how to control my hypothalamus (not knowing this is what I was doing but most probably that's what it is), and then I discovered that ice was a good aborter some 10 years ago, then coffee, so... So I have been more and more able to control the attacks and not let them grow higher than Kip 5 or 6, usually within 30 minutes and even less, as where when I was young, it was Kip 7 to 10 mostly all the time. Even recently though, some attacks go out of control and reach 7 and + When they reach 7+, they last long, hours, yes, and a very strong shadow remains sometimes for 8 hours, with level of pain up to Kip 5, but the it's not a growing pain anymore but a stable one. I'm then able to fall at some point in some kind of weird state ressembling sleep for a few hours, but with the pain remaining stable, as I say, up to 8 even 10 hours, even after I emerge from that weird sleep. After one of these, a bump grows on my right temple, and the following attack finds its way easy. But as Brew said, there are ways... I used Zomig nasal spray (zolmitriptan) for a few years, and that stops the attack in seconds, but I hated the side effects, and that of Verapamil also, which brought me here in early 2012. This cycle, I was able to abort an attack once with a SPUT (search for a recent thread on this), and I just found my box of Zomig I had lost, but I didn't use it. I've had a few bad ones this summer but I'm usually able to abort them before they grow with ice and coffee. I don't use oxygen, probably I should, but cafeine really helps (energy drinks or coffee). The trick is to get to the abort solution in time and not let it grow. I did learn to emerge from sleep and get up as soon as the germ of pain sprouts, and rush to these aborters as soon as possible. But still, some of the attacks are uncontrolable. I don't think they would resist the Zomig (or Imitrex shot if my neuro wanted to precribe me this), but I really hate the stuff (and as I said, had lost my box of it until 2 days ago) Basically, the trick is to learn to control them somehow before they reach a point where they can last longer. I peeked at your other posts quickly... my neuro when I was seeing her didn't want to prescribe me oxygen either, she said it was just pushing the attacks back to later. Last time I saw her, I got a little mad and she got her pad out to do so, shaking her head, but then I told her I didn't want to go the official way anymore and was turning to busting, and I didn't see a neurologist since then... and managed with other abort solutions. Really, the trick is to find ways to not let them grow in bad attacks

No, but I stood in the sunlight, exposing my face with my eyes closed, figuring my hypothalamus would connect and fill with the sun's light/energy... it triggered a bad attack... bad idea

I'm really glad more people participate in the thinking... Thinking can get us ahead of science... I think so anyways. spiny, we'd first have to check if many clusterheads have high WBC... could be the reason, could be not, I don't know (and obviously the docs you consulted don't know much about it either). I read this last night. I'm really not sure I understood it all, me having French as a first language doesn't help I think, but it's highly scientific and I'm not, so that doesn't help either However, what I get from it is that they mimicked an infection by inserting LPS, and... it seems to show a relation between infection, the hypothalamus and TNF-a Well, yea, not sure exactly what it all means, but it definitely shows links between TNF-a and hypothalamus... doesn't it? Someone else? Just another brick in that wall http://www.odon.uba.ar/uacad/fisiologia/docs/nuevos/thehypothalamic.pdf The neuroendocrine response to infection can be mimicked by peripheral administration of bacterial products such as lipopolysaccharide (LPS), which is a commonly used model of immune challenge (...) In conclusion, the present study provides direct evidence for cannabinoid receptor mediated enhancement of OXT release from hypothalamus, following immune challenge, been NO a mediator of this pathway. Also, endocannabinoids participates in LPS-induced TNF-[ch945] production in the brain and periphery. This effect could be mediated, at least in part, by endocannabinoid activation of hypothalamic CB1 receptors, however, the potential involvement of another receptor cannot be excluded. Our findings reveal an interaction between oxytocin, endocannabinoid and NO-ergic systems at hypothalamic level and this interaction provides a mechanism of hypothalamic-neurohypophyseal activity regulation under basal and stress conditions.

jgb, I'm 51 years old... it's trough teenagers that I got a link to get MM, do you know any college students? But in your case, apart from what others have said and they are absolutely right, you must order RC seeds as soon as you can, they work very well for busting, and you can order them rush, If I remember well, Tranceplants (first link) process their orders and ship on Wednesdays and can send rush 24 hours here: http://www.tranceplants.net/product-info.php?pid141.html (info about shipping and payment http://www.tranceplants.net/consumer.php) or here http://www.ktbotanicals.com/rivea-corymbosa-ololiuqui-seeds-p-81.html or here http://www.shamanic-extracts.com/xcart/shamanic-ethnobotanicals/rivea-corymbosa/

Am I ever glad I bumped this thread, and thank you Ricardo for elaborating more on the subject of TNF. I must admit that after a few hours of reflexions and readings on TNF, I ended up listing many reasons why your theory wouldn't fit clusters. How could it explain things like confused circardian rythms, cycles starting at equinoxes or solstices, barometric pressure sensibility, low levels of testosterone and vitamin D, the fact that we get hit after one hour of sleep, and not if we stay awake, the fact that most clusterheads have poor hunger... And how could it explain the fact that this scan study shows clearly that the hypothalamus has abnormal activity while a cluster is taking place, and between attacks during a cycle? http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0057896 I was about to turn away from TNF having any link with clusters for it seemed clear to me that a hypothalamus misfunction HAS to be the main reason for clusters... So I thought: the only way TNF could be linked to clusters is if TNF is linked to a possible malfunctioning of the hypothalamus. And it is !! or at least it seems to be. The following links provide little direct answers to my questions, but... I think the link is there (between TNF and hypothalamus, at least for the hunger part) Now I'm not sure the following links are all totally relevant, and of course I didn't read them thoroughly, but I'm quite certain it brings some water to the mill http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tumor_necrosis_factor_alpha It has a number of actions on various organ systems, generally together with IL-1 and Interleukin-6 (IL-6): Â Â On the hypothalamus: Â Â Â Â Â Stimulation of the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis by stimulating the release of corticotropin releasing hormone (CRH) Â Â Â Â Â Suppressing appetite http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1471-4159.2006.03857.x/pdf In addition, TNF-a induces the expression of neurotransmitters involved in the control of feeding and thermogenesis. Thus, TNF-a may act directly in the hypothalamus inducing a pro-inflammatory response and the modulation of expression of neurotransmitters involved in energy homeostasis. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20576518 The icv infusion of TNF-alpha-induced an increase in PTP1B protein expression and activity, and attenuated insulin and leptin sensitivity and signaling in the hypothalamus. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17459524 In conclusion, TNF-alpha, on a dose-dependent way, modulates insulin and leptin signaling and action in the hypothalamus. http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1471-4159.2006.03857.x/pdf In conclusion, this study shows that TNF-a can activate a cascade of signal transduction in the hypothalamus of rats. These signaling events induce the expression of cytokines and other proteins related to inflammatory signaling that, on a long-term basis, may have implications in the local response to a pro-inflammatory stimulus. http://www.jimmunol.org/content/155/7/3552.abstract http://qjmed.oxfordjournals.org/content/93/6/323.long This is very complicated studies; I spent the whole Saturday reading and I'm not yet reaching any conclusion, but I now really feel you struck a goldmine here, Ricardo (couldn't find the right translation for my image). Now why we would produce too much TNF is another story... I guess, yes, an unknown virus could be the cause, and why do episodic have cycles, and are not hit constantly is another question, but that could be related to the way the virus functions (may function as the herpes virus that comes and go?)... And how would busting be related to this... I have read that LSD seems to be a powerful antioxydant, who knows what else it does, and what exactly does hitting the 5HT2A receptor do? I think this is still quite obscure, but it all sounds promising. Anyways, this is jungle so far, but I think there could be a gold mine underneath if we clear the bushes a little. and I'm sorry in advance if I posted this without first digesting it all. I guess I meant to stimulate anyone else's curiosity and bring them to dig for more infoÂ

sounds good [smiley=thumbsup.gif] [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Glad you like it weatherman. I won't comment more, trying to keep my message short and clear, I agree with MoxiGirl and Weatherman's comments At this point, what I feel is important is: Does this improved scale picture well what we clusterheads feel?... what modifications...? The only way to know is if clusterheads answer that question. I would like to see it presented at our sister board also for further comments, approval or modifications. It would be very cool 8-) if many Clusterbusters could first tell if it can prove useful for them or not... what they would change... is there a survey option on this board? That could be easier for those who never or seldom post I particularly like MoxiGirls's graphic, with the migraine and regular headache scale alongside. It would really help non-sufferers to easily picture...

bumping this, hoping to get a few of us back into searching more answers about 5HT2a receptor, other receptors, dopamine, melatonin, TNF... After many readings and research about serotonin (5HT) receptors, LSD, and so on, my feeling was that the actions of LSD, and probably psilocibin, are probably far more complicated than what I first tought and are mostly unknown. Ever since I was a member here (Jan 2012), I have been under the impression that the main action of psychedelics on clusters was through the 5HT2A receptor, but obviously, this is more than unsure. I am surprised also to find out that the action of sumatriptan (Imitrex) on clusters and migraines is actually also unknown to science, and that many other prescription meds mechanisms of action is also unknown (even Tylenol ). They know sumatriptan mostly hits the 5HT1B and 5HT1D receptors (or am I mistaking here?), but they have no idea what that does exactly, and they suppose that vasoconstriction... Wikipedia: "Sumatriptan is also shown to decrease the activity of the trigeminal nerve, which, it is presumed, accounts for sumatriptan's efficacy in treating cluster headaches." The ordinary citizens nowadays live their lives thinking that science has many answers, that consulting a doctor or a specialist will lead to clear answers. When one gets a little further into this, he/she finds out that... there are no clear answers. "Medecine is not a science, it's an art", as my friend says. Try this and come see me again, we'll adjust... That sounds a bit like the kid poking a toad with a stick story. Freaky... I don't remember the thread, but I remember reading here that we clusterheads can rely better on ourselves than on any (science) machine to get answers since we are the machine. About this, I find particular that I have a hard time today, as my cycle is fading out, getting intellectual enough to absorb all this scientific information, whereas when it is impossible for me to sleep for days and very high on my cycle, I eat and absorb this information like candies, and even go further (or at least think that I go further in thinking). My brain seems flat today, and when cluster attacks hit one after the other, my brain seem to be hyperactive and able to go beyond my actual intellectual capacities. After analysing myself through this cycle, I find that the circadian rythms are probably the most important thing associated with clusters. My readings thaught me that not only the hypothalamus regulates the circadian rythms. Well OK, I knew that already, most here do. But after this cycle, studying myself and reading get me to think that it's more important than we thought, and that sleeping and dreaming might be more closely linked than... well than I thought. I was seing my circadian rythms' absolute mix up as a symptom of my cluster attacks, and now I'm starting to see it as a direct cause... well maybe. As for Tumor Necrosis factor, I saw on the other board that Ricardo posted recently (or was that an old post I have read, Ricardo?) about this, as he still thinks it's closely related to clusters. Is it because my cycle is fading away? I can't seem to quite understand what it all implies. Ricardo, if you would post more information on TNF, more of your thoughts on this, it would be a pleasure to read it. But I think if TNF is a factor in clusters, it cannot be the only one. There are so many twisted things in my body, feelings, head, off cycle and in cycle, and some of these seem so different from other clusterheads', that it's difficult for me to think there could be only one thing that leads to clusters. If, as mentioned earlier in this thread here, tripping would be necessary to treat the clusters, how then could BOLD-148 work... and the RC seeds... they work very well to bust, and I couldn't get much of a trip out of these even with high doses. And if too much TNF leads to clusters, why is it that meds that reduce TNF doesn't help for clusters? It seemed obvious for me at first (becoming a member here) that playing with the serotonin system, hitting the 5HT2A receptor, was how the busting agents worked on clusters. Now it seems to me no one knows much of anything on anything... and that maybe it's actually not science that can help us. :-/ :-/

So true ! Yes ! and yeah, I couldn't imagine running... at these stages, I do tend to stop moving, just spasms. I think so... If I showed this to some people, they could (maybe finally) picture what I meant all along. Where do you think would be on this scale the "severing of an arm with an unsharped small knife" be?