Purple Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 I suddenly feel I'm confusing everyone... maybe I ought to just read this board for a while and not post :-[ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatHurtsMyHead Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Purple, Please read, read, read. Knowledge is power and no one knows more about your body and how it reacts to things than you. You may be trying to equate seeds to how much LSA is contained in them. Don't bother  As I mentioned earlier LSA degrades significantly after 6 months. A seed just picked has significantly different levels of LSA than a seed that's been sitting on a shelf for one or even two years before it was sold. If YOU choose to, I would recommend starting small and working your way to a seed count YOU feel comfortable with. No one can tell you exactly how many seeds it will take to bust your particular CH cycle. Methods: There are dozens of different methods that people use to take their medicine (seeds). Several are mentioned above. No one method is better than another. Many are just personal preference. Pick one method (simplest) and try that. If you get nausia, or bad taste in your mouth etc. then look over what other busters have changed and modify your own recipe to address what works best for you. (RC) Simplest is the old crush and soak in distilled water for 2 hours. Then either filter and drink just the water, or drink the entire concoction (sludge and all). Nothing else is necessary, but I've personaly found a few drops of mint extract helps get the vile tasting stuff down.. ha... PF Wishes, Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiny Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Wow. A lot to digest here. Store seeds in freezer in mason jar I have read. Start at 10 or 30 I have read. Soak in water or alcohol or lemon juice I have read. Will get a good nights sleep I have read. Wait 2 to 5 days also read. Frozen seeds, sealed well can last 2 years I have also read. Slapbacks for 2-3 days. What if they start 3-5 days later, not 2-3? What does that mean? Evidently most of it depends on your body and metabolism. I take that to mean that if you normally get by with less of other prescribed meds than other people need, you might need less. If you require more of stuff generally, you might need more. Start small and work up seems good advice. Say you can't take anything with speed in it cause you will bounce for 24-48 hours from one dose (script). One Valium or Thorazine works well for you. Seems like that would mean your are oversensitive to 'uppers' and under sensitive to 'downers'. How sensitive does that make you to alt meds?What does that mean? Knowing your response to other meds should give you a clue where to start perhaps? But, if you are leery, start small to prevent anxiety based on new experience of new med? Slapbacks are common in the first 2-3 days. After a good nights sleep. What if there is not a 'good nights sleep'? So, you up the dose for the next time, right? But, things are no better and instead of relief after 3 days, TSHTF and you are worse off. Up it again and the same thing happens. Then what do you do? You take 5-6 doses,increasing each time, 5 days apart when you are totally detoxed and still not appreciably better, then what??? Shouldn't your weight figure into this as well? At 160lbs you might need 60-70. At 100lbs, that could be too many, right? Your metabolism is high, do you need more or less for your weight? High metabolism would process the med faster, so now what? Take more? How many doses do you take before you realize it isn't working? 3,5,9? Maybe your cycle is winding down, but dosing jacks it up again. Now what? The weather changes and you are back in HELL, now what? Questions running through my pea brain. :-[ Any answers or suggestions? spiny seeking answers for the confused : Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHfather Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Shouldn't your weight figure into this as well? At 160lbs you might need 60-70. At 100lbs, that could be too many, right? As Purp said, there's a danger of adding confusion on confusion here, but somebody who knows can always step in. I can only say regarding this question of yours that I have always heard that since psychedelics work on your brain, body size is not a key dosage issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHfather Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 I suddenly feel I'm confusing everyone... maybe I ought to just read this board for a while and not post Purp, in my opinion you're not confusing anyone. 95-plus percent of people are going to go, completely rationally, with the tried-and-tested advice -- because it works, 95-plus percent of the time. You, and some others, are going to examine that advice, for whatever reasons -- to see if it can be made better, or out of intellectual curiosity . . . whatever reasons. People who want to engage with that can do so. Nobody has to. I think it's important to remember that this whole site, and virtually all the knowledge within it, was built by people experimenting and asking questions--"citizen scientists" taking responsibility for their own treatments. If you look at some of the old LSA FAQs (if they're still here somewhere), you'll see how much the knowledge has grown. When I first came here, no so long ago (fall, 2010), standard advice was to start with 10 or maybe 20 RC seeds. 10 would now be completely ridiculously low, and 20 would also be considered too low by most people. The number has crept up as more and more people reported taking larger and larger numbers of seeds without psychedelic effects. I could see it heading closer to 50 as a recommended first dose, as more data come in. I love the way you put your mind to these things, and value it greatly. I guess if enough people PM you with harsh messages telling you to shut up (as has happened with me), you'll have to decide who to listen to. I hope you'll listen to yourself. As for your questions on the Sewell chart, there I agree that you shouldn't worry it too much. It was early (2008!!) research (funded in part by Clusterbusters). I would say, though, partly in agreement with Jeff and partly from the chart itself, that the .8mg/gram statistic is just an average, and the median seems to be closer to 1mg/gram, with the average being pulled down by one or two very bad batches. And who knows how old the seeds were, how they were stored, all that stuff? Again, this was early days. (I remember trying to prepare LSA from HBWR seeds using the method described there and practically going nuts at every step, to the point that I just gave up and ate the doggone seeds, husks and all! (I was doing this to try to figure out how to do it for my daughter.) Thank God for RC, I say--and of course, for Clusterbusters -- at least for a completely inept "chemist" like me.) Similarly, I can't quite figure out the effective/ineffective data, but we know some were ineffective because of not getting LSA, and I don't think we know how these people treated themselves: Did they take multiple doses five days apart, for example? So, like you, I'm inclined to trust the higher success rate here at CB, as people do the right thing in the right way (as we presently understand what the "right thing" and the "right way" are). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arde Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 What do you mean, Arde? did you experience tripping? And what is NK? I definitely experienced tripping. That was the point for me. I took enough seeds so that if they contained LSA I would know it, and if they didn't, I would also know that. NK is just the brand name of the seeds on the seed rack at Lowes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueballs Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 straight from the horse's mouth Horses dont eat seeds,they eat hay. I think it's important to note that we are all experimenting on ourselves and we all have our own best information to offer. Weather it's the horse or the donkey. I have found that a finer grind increased the effect for me. Thats all ,take it or leave it. Same as the sludge take it or leave it. Grind it or smash it. Any and all best information is what we are all here for, no matter if it's tomato or tomAAto. Headbangers rule. bb 8-) Ya dont grindem till the smoke comes off them. jeez :-* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiny Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 "If you are experiencing increased activity on the third day after dosing, my guess would be that the "tolerance" period of your receptors is ending -- that your personal "no way to get high" window is around three or four days. Your receptors are going through their transition from their "stoned" state to their "ready to get stoned once again" state." This is the closing statement on the link CHF posted on page 2 of this thread. "WWW. clusterbusters.com/theory.html. More mud, but the water is clearing somewhat. 8-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alleyoop Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 I guess if enough people PM you with harsh messages telling you to shut up (as has happened with me), you'll have to decide who to listen to. I hope you'll listen to yourself. Absolutely good advice CHf. But since I am the one whom most will think you are referring to when you mention people PM'ing you with harsh messages, I would greatly appreciate it if you would clear this up. Everything I have said has been in the open. I certainly have not PM'ed you or anyone else about this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueballs Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Communication is 95% visual. We dont have that here. Message board postings are ambiguous at best and I would hope that we all are cool together. 8-) Purple you better not quit posting. We all have good information relevant and worth consideration. There is just no visual or body language to tie it to. Message board misconceptions misinterpretations are really sucky. :PWhy make waves when calm waters get ya more fish. :-* bb [smiley=bath.gif] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bejeeber Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 CHfather wrote on Today at 1:10pm: .....I guess if enough people PM you with harsh messages telling you to shut up (as has happened with me)... OK I'll admit it was me who PM'd CHf several times and ordered him to shut the f***ing feck up and go f*** himself! Not really - I actually value (and rely upon) his and the rest of y'all's contributions tremendously. But wait a minute Blueballs - I'm ready to go into full on flame war mode with you over your comment about communication being 95% visual! What about tone of voice used??!! Dog dangit my tone of voice can't be heard and now it may not be evident that I'm just attempting to joke around and crap here. Ah well at least we got some emoticons. ;D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueballs Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 ;DBBBBwewwwwhhhaaaahahaaahaaaaaa!!!!!!! ;D [smiley=beer.gif]Ok audiovisual....lets go fishin. [smiley=2vrolijk_08.gif] [smiley=thumbup.gif] bb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purple Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 :) ok ok 8-) Earlier, I felt for a moment I was in total confusion, and that was followed by a very dark afternoon and evening... but the cloud passed, and the black cloud (and a weird shadow) actually helped me think further into CH.... (it's all simmering in there) I guess if enough people PM you with harsh messages telling you to shut up (as has happened with me), you'll have to decide who to listen to. I hope you'll listen to yourself. Absolutely good advice CHf. But since I am the one whom most will think you are referring to when you mention people PM'ing you with harsh messages, I would greatly appreciate it if you would clear this up. Everything I have said has been in the open. I certainly have not PM'ed you or anyone else about this thread. All cleared up I got just one PM, and it certainly wasn't harsh at all, thanks. I just can't resist hitting this reply button at the bottom of each thread. I didn't figure that if I was overdoing it, people would actually be PMing me, Ha ! my paranoia was that everybody was PMing about me all around or something ;D ... Well thanks everyone for the cheers, I just read back the whole thread and after all I feel this adds up to a very informative thread for any newcomer, so it looks like, after all, light does come out from confusion (yeahhh read that somewhere chaos, light...) [smiley=lolk.gif] Shouldn't your weight figure into this as well? At 160lbs you might need 60-70. At 100lbs, that could be too many, right?  As Purp said, there's a danger of adding confusion on confusion here, but somebody who knows can always step in. I can only say regarding this question of yours that I have always heard that since psychedelics work on your brain, body size is not a key dosage issue. I don't know if kept the reference link (probably), but I read an anecdote about a group of scientists with white shirts taking notes around an LSD experiment on an elephant. It lasted a few minutes all together, the elephant swirled around a few times, defecated and died. They had apparently figured the dose according to the body weight difference with a human. It's the only death by LSD I read about . Think that was in the 1950's. Oh there could have been a few dead rats also I spose. Taken an elephant brain isn't that much bigger than a human's (twice?), the poor thing got an extremely massive dose... guess he died tripping. I too think it's more the brain size difference that's the reference, not the whole body, and I think our brain all weight pretty much the same as humans. Evidently most of it depends on your body and metabolism. I take that to mean that if you normally get by with less of other prescribed meds than other people need, you might need less. If you require more of stuff generally, you might need more. Start small and work up seems good advice. (...) Slapbacks are common in the first 2-3 days. After a good nights sleep. What if there is not a 'good nights sleep'? So, you up the dose for the next time, right? But, things are no better and instead of relief after 3 days, TSHTF and you are worse off. Up it again and the same thing happens. Then what do you do? Good thing to point out, Spiny, metabolism and usual response to any med I think is to be considered. One of my friend, just one Tylenol and she feels dizzy almost, every med is over efficient on her. As for the what do you do part... I think after busting 2 or 3 times (I'd say 2 if pain is too high) without any results at all, it's time to turn to something else, mushrooms, LSD, licorice... I remember reading those who mixed seeds and shrooms... Ya dont grindem till the smoke comes off them. jeez I have found that a finer grind increased the effect for me. Actually bb, what you say here confirms what I have read many times in different threads on shroomery.org and maybe elsewhere. The trippers either chew up their MG seeds as Arde explained he did back in the days, apparently the extraction is very successful directly in the gut, but ya gotta really chew, and I'm theorizing some LSA absorbtion is done via the mucus in the mouth, either they use a coffee grinder, and many point out that a finer grind extracts better. Problem is with RC seeds, I wasn't under the impression I could grind 60 seeds with my coffee grinder... too few. Because the trippers, they take like 500-800 MG seeds. But anyways, a finer grind looks appealing to me. There is something else I wanted to quote... Oh yeah, the Nafta part... Wow, scary stuff... but if you say it's very volatile... maybe... I guess why not. Think I'll try to sum up the content of this thread in one text, cause there is really lots of precious info here. tucker, I hope you're not over stuffed with info, that was your thread maybe I can summarize it simply: Keep on Bustin' ;D ;D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purple Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Might as well add this here since I think it would complete well other info in this thread: after busting successfully, no more pain at all, 2 weeks after my insurance 4th bust, I was starting to feel very subtle tickles... but mostly I wanted to experiment recreational use of my new RC seeds batch. So I did 175 RC seeds, soaked for 90 minutes in vodka and peppermint tea, to see if I would get a buzz. Even with a few joints to boost it up, it didn't feel much like a buzz... then yes, maybe it was a buzz... Definitely no visual effects. I wasn't satisfied on the tripping side and was thinking to try more the week after. That's when CH slapped back. I went to bed with a big shadow, and woke up twice with with kip 5-6, then the second time, the coffee kept me up, then another attack hit me at 11 a.m., then big shadow all day, then... Then it has been 6 days now , and it seems like I'm slipping into a new cycle. Was 175 too much? (With vodka and peppermint) Was my cycle actually never ended really? I'm I turning chronic? :o I'm waiting to see how it grows... it's been keeping me pretty much awake past 2 nights with kips 4... well it's an opportunity to test my meditation like technique to control them. It works (well lower kips anyways)... it's part of my own research on CH and hypothalamus... will report about it when the thoughts are ripe. Meanwhile I know I need more than 175 RC seeds to get to the tripping point, and maybe it wasn't such a great idea to try them recreationaly, so soon after busting anyways... can't play with that CH... no sense of humor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiny Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Purple, I too have sworn off posting on two occasions. Either I posted something not well received, hurt someones feelings, or read over it later and saw that I picked an 'in-appropriate' response. But, now I am so involved that my stopping is bad for my head!! Somehow it has become important to me to post what little help that I actually can supply. : Actually, this thread was one I swore off of after my initial post!!!! But, I got involved again, for better or worse. At least you can post links! And quotes! 8-) I am still at 'spell check' grade level and spend an inordinate amount of time correcting everything via 'preview'. This affliction is isolating and hunger for some social interaction can become overpowering. That hunger makes validation more important I think. Bottom line, you have been here for less time and posted valuable info that I don't have time to look for and research, much less post. Keep up the good work! Help with my sometimes stupid questions is appreciated. They can be stupid, but they are not mindless. I am so sorry that you are once again in a bad place. I think you would have arrived there even without the 'test' run you did. My gut says you did nothing that would aggravate the dragon, he just said 'up yours' and carried on with his own agenda. He is very good at that and seems to be beating his own record for torture for many of us this year and last. spiny whose mind works in weird ways - when it works Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tucker Posted March 9, 2012 Author Share Posted March 9, 2012 Had a good day yesterday, but awoke with 3 CH's last night was once again able to abort them with 02, tonight will be four complete days since the last bust and I will try it again. I appreciate everyone sharing there experience with me, it give me "Hope" :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiny Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Tucker, Carry on!!! Sounds like you have run the 'shut the door' portion and are ready for another go. May you have better and longer relief from this dose. It does get better, really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatHurtsMyHead Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Ya dont grindem till the smoke comes off them. jeez BlueBalls hit it on the nose! Coffee Griner +++ Mine only takes like a 4 second pulse. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHfather Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 But since I am the one whom most will think you are referring to when you mention people PM'ing you with harsh messages, I would greatly appreciate it if you would clear this up. Gosh, I wouldn't even imagine you doing that, and I'm sorry that I would have given that impression or allowed anyone to gather that impression. Definitely not you. Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassidy Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Purple, For what it is worth, my opinion is 175 RC seeds is excessive. Soaking in vodka isn't necessary. Smoking weed can be a trigger. Sounds to me like you are missing the high and by using the seeds you are trying to justify. Yes, when trying to bust a cycle I miss the relaxation that some substances give me. I use a 2 week rule before I indulge. I have very high respect for RC and other busting methods because they are my salvation. My rules, for myself are strict. I learned from the original people and I would not change anything for me. I detox from any interference matter. As far as seeds go I use 50 to 70 soaked in water and a splash of lemon. Sometimes I don't get relief and after dosing 3 times 5 days apart If that happens I let it ride. Quit dosing. And sometimes the relief will come a week later. I don't tempt the CH until I am 2 weeks pain free. The 5 day suggestion, I have played around with. I've dosed on the 4th day and I've tried stretching out the time to 7 days. I do mainly tend to use fungi. Same rules except I make it in a tea. The tea helps me adjust my mental state. That includes depression, anxiety, anger. I think I use the tea for the pain and the improvement of my mind. And yes I've had paranoia and wondered if I belonged here. I do. It's my lifeline. I doubt you have brought on a new cycle. I think you will level off. I do not mean to reprimand you. I mean to share my program learned from "the old guys". I wish you all the best and peace and happiness. BTW, I have never tripped on seeds. I can't sleep when I have to dose with them. My post dose hits are the next day. Lucky for all of us we were given this chance to be pain free. I don't spit in the beer of the devil. love you no matter what you choose. Leslie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purple Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Sounds to me like you are missing the high and by using the seeds you are trying to justify. Thank you Cassidy. You're not wrong, I don't disagree, but I think there is more to it. My theory so far is that my lifelong need to get slightly high often, either with pot or alcohol, is related to the chemical weirdness in my head causing CH. These substances either help my mind (that's how it feels) or the chemical unbalance just calls for it for some reason... or... not sure. Well I didn't dig into it yet (I will), but I saw a report saying a high percentage of clusterheads show bad habits and drug taking, cigarette, marijuana, alcohol... I'm planning to dig onto that matter and thanks for reassuring me: I'm paranoiac, but it's normal for a clusterhead ;D ;D LOL Oh I'm feeling better today, you're right, it didn't start a new cycle after all, except I caught a cold I too feel I belong here even though I've been here not even 2 months :-* hugs everyone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassidy Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Purple, I am relieved to hear that you are not upset with me. Some people would not take my post very well. I do think MJ is a very important medicine. And I miss it a lot when in cycle. It keeps me away from the drugstore and the antidepressants. And it's a little bit fun. My head doesn't like alcohol, except for a cold beer or a hot coffee with Irish Cream. That's nice sometimes for me. More than one however puts me in a bad mood. I have been addicted to cigarettes for about 50 years. Today is day 3 of not smoking. I'm going to make it this time. That is great you didn't start a new cycle. I'm glad to hear that. Watch out with the cold, seems like most cycles start out with sinus pressure, for me. Of course you are in the right place. I started busting in 2005. The CH was so terrible along with the R/xs. Now I'm down to one cycle a year and I can make it go away in two weeks and the pain is nowhere near what it was a long time ago. Yep, you are right we are a strange bunch. But being normal can be boring. Thank you for understanding. This no smoking thing is making me confused. And maybe a bit opinionated and/or bitchy. Leslie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purple Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 This no smoking thing is making me confused. And maybe a bit opinionated and/or bitchy. LOL, most evidently... I quit once for a month, and I remember those 5 first days hehe, maybe you should have started your post by : I QUIT SMOKING TODAY and I think that what you say is... ;D ;D good luck on this, are u using patches? As I confessed on a thread about marijuana, I always smoked it, even in cycle... just have to dose right, and it eases the shadows and after attacks. Oh and thanks again everyone for making me feel at home here, and you should know that it takes a very much lot more than this to get me mad at someone... in fact, I don't think I get mad at anyone ever, just maybe ignore some humans, that's all. [smiley=engel017.gif] Cheers [smiley=beer.gif] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alleyoop Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Leslie, I think you should start your posts with: EX-SMOKER. After all, that's what you are. My theory so far is that my lifelong need to get slightly high often, either with pot or alcohol, is related to the chemical weirdness in my head causing CH. These substances either help my mind (that's how it feels) or the chemical unbalance just calls for it for some reason... or... not sure. Well I didn't dig into it yet (I will), but I saw a report saying a high percentage of clusterheads show bad habits and drug taking, cigarette, marijuana, alcohol... I'm planning to dig onto that matter Purple, I have long felt that there is a connection. I once asked Dr Andrew Sewell about this. But I think I used the wrong term. I mentioned that I thought most clusterheads have "addictive personalities", to which he replied, "There is no such thing as an 'addictive personality'. I would have pursued it further but we were in mid-day Chicago traffic trying to get to the airport, reading a map. So I dropped the conversation. But I have always felt that there is a connection between CH and ...... shall we say ... a tendency to use alcohol and drugs, including tobacco. This perception actually came from watching clusterheads interact at a CB conference. No doubt but that a large percentage of us enjoy alcohol and cigarettes. This may even have something to do with the fact that so many of us hate to dose because of the side effects. As was pointed out in another thread, LSD has been shown effective in the treatment of alcoholism. Could it be that some of us subconsciously fight the natural effects of psychedelics, and thus do not enjoy tripping? Anyway, you have gotten on to a topic that has always seemed relevant and fascinated me. Maybe start a new thread? :-? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatHurtsMyHead Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Ex-Smoker (20 years) I heard another CH'er some time back mention a connection that everyone with CH he had spoken to had smoked at one point. ?? I have to agree that after dosing I don't really care to drink for some reason. Definitely have to agree on Psychedelics, they don't agree with me either. I'm learning to manage the experience better though. The one time I busted with a friend / sitter, was much easier than busting alone. (That ole set and setting thing I guess) Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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