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Oscar

Weather condition and CH

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As every CH patient we search for answers why we getting hit by this terrible disease. There are a lot of things written what could cause this. Many stories arenÂ’t true in my opinion.

What I was wondering, are there people who have CH that lives in climates that are stable during all days a year. Some countries didnÂ’t have winters of spring. They have all the year the same temperature and air pressure. I know there are a lot of people here on the board that live in countries that had winters, springs and so on. IÂ’m mostly getting hit when spring begins, right after a couple of weeks nice weather. Also I get hit after the summer when autumn begins.

Because I was on the Dutch Antilles past year I was wondering how people live in those climates. Are there people with CH living in those countries where the weather is stable all year long?

Maybe this was figured out before and described on this board but I canÂ’t find information about this. Maybe somebody can tell me more about this.

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We have a member, actually one of the original Clusterbusters, who lives in Ajijic, MX.  This area has been written up by Nat Geo as enjoying the second best climate in the world, with very steady year-round temps. 

Seven years ago, I went down and stayed with Xeno (board name) for 4 weeks.  At the next CB conference in Austin, TX, Xeno did a presentation on this very subject you are asking about, titled "Changes in Attitude, Changes in Latitude".

There may very well be some validity to this postulation, but I, personally, think the jury is still out. :-?

Bobb

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Thanks Bobb for this information. I read the forum topic about Xeno. It looks like it doesn't matter CH.

Only can't find the presentation, but as it was on the conference I doubt it is online.

I't still remains a interesting subject, altitude and attitute.

Pas year I flight 6 times and dived 15 times in a row. Everytime I was on the plane and after I got shadows. They totally dissapear after diving. They came up flighing and dissapear diving again. Something is my head that response to that.

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I't still remains a interesting subject, altitude and attitute.

Pas year I flight 6 times and dived 15 times in a row. Everytime I was on the plane and after I got shadows. They totally dissapear after diving. They came up flighing and dissapear diving again. Something is my head that response to that.

Very interesting stuff Oscar.  And it might be interesting to hear from others that dive, as I know of a few out there, including Xeno.

I'm not sue if Xeno's presentation was recorded or not.  Maybe FunGuy or Psiloscribe could answer that.

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I know ThatHurtsMyHead is diving a lot but as far as I know only when not in cycle.

Maybe he knows the flying and diving experience as well.

I keep myself informated about this while I believe the answer has to be simple, as most of the time but we do always think difficult.

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I have been thinking about this too Oscar.  I find it very odd that these attacks come in regular cycles for some people.  That immediately makes me think about outside cyclical forces as a cause or at least potential triggers.  Weather is the first thing I thought about.  I was having some trouble finding any serious patterns though that I could use. 

Since then I have moved to lunar cycles and other gravitational forces (like the equinoxes) because I too get attacks right at spring.  Again it is tough finding any sort of serious correlation but I think you might be on the right path here and we need to keep looking. 

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Just thoughts . . . . I have always thought that seasonal CH cycles of CH were understood to be related to the hypothalamus's role in adjusting the brain and body's daily functions for seasonal changes (circadian rhythms), and that they were likely triggered more by changes in amounts of daylight than by actual weather changes.

There's an abstract of a medical journal article about this that says >>>While cluster headache has traditionally been thought of as a vascular headache disorder, its periodicity suggests involvement of the suprachiasmatic nucleus of the hypothalamus, the biological clock. Normal circadian function and seasonal changes occurring in the suprachiasmatic nucleus and pineal gland are correlated to the clinical features and abnormalities of circadian rhythm seen in cluster headache. <<<  (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11858532

A couple more things:

>>>A series of findings over the past decade has begun to identify the brain circuitry and neurotransmitters

that regulate our daily cycles of sleep and wakefulness. The latter depends on a network of cell groups that

activate the thalamus and the cerebral cortex. A key switch in the hypothalamus shuts off this arousal

system during sleep. Other hypothalamic neurons stabilize the switch, and their absence results in

inappropriate switching of behavioural states, such as occurs in narcolepsy<<<  (http://meds371s.uchc.edu/Saper%20etal%202005%20hypothalamus%20circadian%20rhythms.pdf)         (Seems like this would be connected to the fact that CH occurs so often in sleep.)

In seasonal affective disorder, >>>bright light works by stimulating cells in the retina that connect to the hypothalamus, a part of the brain that helps control circadian rhythms. Activating the hypothalamus at a certain time every day can restore a normal circadian rhythm and thus banish seasonal symptoms.<<<  (http://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/seasonal-affective-disorder-bring-on-the-light-201212215663)   (I remember at least one person, tingeling, saying that using one of those light machines that are supposed to relieve seasonal affective disorder was helpful for her CH.)

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I remember at least one person, tingeling, saying that using one of those light machines that are supposed to relieve seasonal affective disorder was helpful for her CH

This is very interesting. 

It would make more sense to look at light cycles but I would imagine that something like that would be really easy to confirm.  I would be really interested to speak to someone about this from Alaska for instance.  Does anyone know if we have any busters up there?

Thanks for the article CHfather. 

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Thanks for the articles CHfather, I read them all and see a lot of questions in those stories. Very interesting.

(I remember at least one person, tingeling, saying that using one of those light machines that are supposed to relieve seasonal affective disorder was helpful for her CH.)

I was thinking the same Trace! Sounds like Vitamine D to me but thatÂ’s just a thought.

As I was 2 years pain free and now in cycle I noticed some different things past 2 years. I did busting the first time in 2011. After that time I have frequently shadows, something I didnÂ’t have before busting. Therefore I was a couple of years shadow free. Now I live from time to time with periods of shadows, not heavy but just a little bit annoying. I really donÂ’t care about it but I found this odd. The periods that I had the most and frequent shadows were in Spring and Autumn so that's my time to dose. Summer and winter were the best months.

Also one thing that I read also before is changing clocks, that is in the period Spring and Autumn. So these seasons and changing clocks are the periods I had the most shadows in two years.

The Daylight saving time http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daylight_saving_time is not over the whole world but just big parts. I donÂ’t know, there must be people outside those areas with CH. But how is the different between parts that do have daylight saving time and parts that do not use them? It was introduced in 1895, I thought CH was discovered before but IÂ’m not sure.

My 2 cats donÂ’t care about changing time, they are asking for food an hour to early or too late. They also have biological clocks that donÂ’t like changes, so why should we humans change time? Sounds like a stupid thing to me to play with mother nature.

I have always the feeling that CH is not only one thing but depends on more things together. Stays a mystery so far.  8-)

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Indeed, a complicated subject. 

Would be great to get an accurate world distribution on CH patients.  I don't know if that will ever be possible.  Correlating their location to daily, monthly and seasonal variations in temp/pressure would then be easy.  The true test would be to have a large group of us move to an area of mild weather variations, then see what happens.  Both of these ideas seem unlikely.

It seems (at least for me) there are primary causes, then secondary triggers for CH.  Then comes the hypothalamus malfunctions, subsequent hormone barrage and nerve firing that we all love so much.  This pattern could probably affect anyone in any location in the world, depending on their sensitivity to the trigger.  Genetic disposition, head trauma and other stresses don't know where you are located.

The secondary triggers, like alcohol, pressure/temp changes, stress, allergies, etc ...... can either combine to ramp up existing tendencies for CH or start an episode on their own.  They are not the root cause of CH, but light the fuse that lead to head explosions.  The possibilities / combinations / variations are numberous for what can set off CH.

I too suffer from the rapid pressure drops and temperature rises.  Living in California is pretty mild compared to the Scandinavian countries or Canadian Maritimes for weather variation.  I can only imagine living in those conditions with CH.  Airline flights and passing Low pressure systems send me running for O2 and Imitrex.

When diving, 33 ft below the surface is one atmosphere of pressure.  The extremely rapid pressure increases found by only dropping 10-20 few under water are unparalleled to any weather event.  If dropping pressure is a trigger, then is rapidly rising pressure a treatment (as previously mentioned?)  I know that cold air sometimes helps me when CH is triggered by heat.

The effects of atmospheric pressure and temperature variation, and related physiological changes, have been well documented in medical literature.  The problem still exists on how to connect vasoconstriction/dilation (due to weather), plus internal energy levels and all the other connections that our body makes through the chemical changes associated with the other triggers (such as alcohol, perfumes, etc), into the effects on the hypothalamus/hormones/nerves. 

I pretty much agree with Bobb, that the jury will be out for some time, or at least until someone discovers the true cause of CH.  Might be an interesting project to tackle when I retire ....... :D

weatherman

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Very complicated. In cycle, a low presure system will set me off big time. Out of cycle, not so much.

Normally, my cycle will start at the fall equinox and for the past three years it has lasted 6-7 months. Every low pressure that passes thru at that time will trigger high cycle even if it is the beginning of the cycle when the hits should be mild and only 1-2 per night. I wind up with 4 hits all night long with the low pressure front!!! Perhaps not the cause, but definitely a BIG trigger.

I live on a mountain. When I go down the mountain (during cycle) I am fine. Coming back up the mountain, I get hit hard. Lower pressure = big CH. For me, it makes a big difference. Not a cause, but a big trigger.

BTW, I would recommend that preventative be adjusted according to weather.

spiny

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Living in California is pretty mild compared to the Scandinavian countries or Canadian Maritimes for weather variation.  I can only imagine living in those conditions with CH. 

not much fun trust me. This is interesting reading,it would be good to know about the Alaska thing.

I worked away a couple months last summer.Stayed in one place in a valley about 3 weeks and never had a hit.Then moved about 5 miles away but up on a big mountain and started gettin hit hard 2 out of 3 nights.

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This has got me thinking about arc welders, sheet metal, air compressors and making a pressure chamber....I've always wanted to make a sensory deprivation tank (watch Altered States :) ) and I bet you could make one tank that could do both....

Hmmmm....I have an arc welder :)

And I know a dude that used to do professional welding for George Lucas...

Hmmm.... indeed. 

I know my neuro is reading this with very wide eyes right now and saying, "What the fug are you thinking about doing?!?"

  I'll be careful, I promise :)

-Ricardo

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Its nice to know I'm not the only Ch sufferer in St.lous that gets hit harderthis time of year! Realisticly I'm sure there are many! Still getting hit pretty hard.:-/ Sending much Love,hugs n pf vibes to all my ch family!

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This has got me thinking about arc welders, sheet metal, air compressors and making a pressure chamber....

What's amazing is just how little of a pressure drop is needed to trigger CH.

Standard pressure at Sea Level is 1013.2 mb or 14.7 psi

FLYING:  Huge pressure decreases, typically over 700mb (11.2 psi) drop in

            pressure.  That is nearly 75% decrease in the weight of the atmosphere

            pushing on your blood vessels as you climb to roughly 35,000 ft.  :'(

DRIVE to Mountains:  Going from the beach to 6,000 ft above sea level is a 200 mb

            (3 psi) decrease in pressure......That's a 17% pressure drop.  Mild when

            compared to flying.  :-[

Frontal Passage:  Typically in the 20-30mb decrease in pressure.  Folks in Canada

            may see 30-40mb drops.  That's only 2-3% decrease in pressure, yet it

            can still send us screaming.  :-/

How can such seemingly trivial changes in the amount of air pushing down on our bodies have these crappy results.  The mechanisms in our body that respond to pressure changes are very finely tuned.

So, the pressure chamber idea may not be too bad of a concept.  You would only have to raise the pressure about 1/2 to 1 psi to get back to the relatively high pressure before the front passed.  Richardo, when you finish it, I'll go first  :D

weatherman

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I worked away a couple months last summer.Stayed in one place in a valley about 3 weeks and never had a hit.Then moved about 5 miles away but up on a big mountain and started gettin hit hard 2 out of 3 nights.

Strange, I had a same experience in 2007, a vacation to the mountains turns me into a new cycle.

I know my neuro is reading this with very wide eyes right now and saying, "What the fug are you thinking about doing?!?" 

LOL  ;D

Thank you all for sharing, seems an interesting subject. Changes in Altitude and Attitude, always keeps my interest.

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I lived in Japan for 3 years. They have 4 distinct seasons there. In the winter it's similar to in the UK (where i am) sprint is slightly warmer, summer is VERY hot and humid, and autumn is probably a little bit warmer than the UK. They also get rainy season and it hammers it down!

Despite this, my headaches were not as bad there. Although I did get them - I don't remember being in severe pain or it causing a problem with my day to day life.

This is not quite what you asked...but I thought it was relevant.

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This is not quite what you asked...but I thought it was relevant. 

Thanks for sharing this story, it is interesting. Wonder why you got hit so hard in Japan.

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This is not quite what you asked...but I thought it was relevant. 

Thanks for sharing this story, it is interesting. Wonder why you got hit so hard in Japan.

I didn't...I was less hit. :-/

Not sure though because as I said, the seasons are even more extreme there. i have noticed heat, especially stuffy heat is a trigger but over there it gets very hot in the summer (like you need to take a shower after walking around the corner to the shops) but still headaches were not as bad. The only thing I can think of is that it's very humid there. Dry heat i think is worse for me.

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Hehe, yes indeed, happens if english isn't your mother language and you are tired  :D

Should be, Wonder why you didn't got hit  ;)

But anyway, I Always thought dry heat was hitting me harder. But that is just a thought.

My cycles are so strange, could be from 4 years PF till 2 years of totally PF. Then spring is my winner, then autumn. Migraines dissapeared and CH was coming more frequent.

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Very interesting topic.

Nearly every time I complain of a headache, migraine or cluster, my best friend instantly blames a change in the weather. As I live in England, a change in the weather is a constant. In fact, it is the only place I've been where the phrase 'don't like the weather, just wait 5 minutes' is true to life.

However, I get SO MANY headaches, migraines and clusters, I've given up trying to isolate a cause, especially one so difficult to pin down as weather fronts.

Yes, weather changes very well may be a trigger for me. But in my case, just sleeping, or getting thirsty or too hungry or even just breathing can be a trigger. About the only thing I can reliably say isn't a trigger, is alcohol. (thank god)

MG

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I'd like to add to these thoughts that not only the weather is stable in certain places, but near the equator, days and nights are always 12 hours.

I do get cycles during Winter (I'm up in what they call Canada, so about what... 8 hours of daytime in the Winter), but I do get them in the start of the summer also (16 hours daylight) like now. And our Winters are mostly clear weather, blue sky and bright sun (but minus 10-20 celcius) except the days we get snow, but the clouds never stay more than a day or 2.

It would make real sense that it would be related to light, but I think pressure and light... well I think weatherman sums up pretty well the picture:

It seems (at least for me) there are primary causes, then secondary triggers for CH.Then comes the hypothalamus malfunctions, subsequent hormone barrage and nerve firing that we all love so much.This pattern could probably affect anyone in any location in the world, depending on their sensitivity to the trigger.Genetic disposition, head trauma and other stresses don't know where you are located.

The secondary triggers, like alcohol, pressure/temp changes, stress, allergies, etc ...... can either combine to ramp up existing tendencies for CH or start an episode on their own.They are not the root cause of CH, but light the fuse that lead to head explosions.The possibilities / combinations / variations are numberous for what can set off CH.

the core remains mysterious, just as is the how psilo, lsd and other substances exactly affect our brain story, so one mystery heals another one, makes sense. haha

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Wow...these threads are amazing...I`m totally new to all of this so I don`t get the cycles or patterns yet...but I have to say that as I read these I`m thinking back to all the times I`ve been laid up after scuba diving, rock-climbing, doing a bike ride with alot of altitude or too much heat  and I`m seeing that it is very possible that I have been having cluster issues for years without realizing it. Because of heat intolerance we always thought it would be dxed as MS eventually but it seems that heat can be a big trigger for some CH folks as well. Your comments back and forth have really got me thinking about all this! Thanks...

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