Benadryl

[dehabel]

How do we use Benadryl to help with these horrors? 

[CHfather]

Standard dosage.  25mg (one adult tablet) 3 times a day, and maybe 50mg at night.  As tolerated. If it's too much for you, you can use children's size or liquid to measure your own.  It helps most if it's allergies that are flaring you up (can be allergies that you're not really aware of).

[dehabel]

Thanks!  I took one last nigh while a headache was about to start with my Imitrex and jus took one na hour or so ago.  How will I know if it works?  Does it make he spell go away andI can be normal?  Please tell me yes...

[FunTimes]

I add benadryl when the pollen in the air gets bad. I do not have any allergies that I know of, no runny nose or itchy eyes. I do get a feeling of a little more pressure in my cluster side and the benadryl kind of clears that out for me resulting in less attacks. I will take it for a few days to a week 3 times a day and then take a week off. I also take melatonin about an hour before I go to bed. This sometimes helps with clusters waking me up although I have had times that I am dreaming I am doing oxygen only to wake up to a killer cluster. We are so lucky to deal with this stuff. 

[CHfather]

43 minutes ago, dehabel said:

Thanks!  I took one last nigh while a headache was about to start with my Imitrex and jus took one na hour or so ago.  How will I know if it works?  Does it make he spell go away andI can be normal?  Please tell me yes...

No.  Or at least probably not.  For Batch (username now xxx), I think he found that the full D3 regimen had pretty much eliminated his CH attacks, and when they came back he found that Benadryl eliminated them again (that's how I remember it). So in the right circumstances the answer might be "yes," but I don't think you have reached that state yet (and, frankly, I don't think most people ever do).   For now, I would say you will know if it works if your attacks are less severe or maybe less frequent, or both.

It sounds like you don't have oxygen.  If I'm right about that, you really want getting O2 to be your main priority.  You might want to read this: https://clusterbusters.org/forums/topic/6213-basic-non-busting-information/

 

[dehabel]

I do not have oxygen.  I have just toughed through these things for so many years.  I am 51 now and have not had them in the past eight years, I am really struggling.   Thanks for the info! 

[spiny]

Hi dehabel. When you read the link I suggest that you print out a copy if you can. That way you will know what needs to be prescribed and can show a new doctor. Insurance can be a fight, but that O2 is life saving! 

CHF - Does your link contain that page? Usually you have that too.

The D3 Regimen is several vitamins that you take to hopefully bring down the intensity of your hits and to slow the ramp up down so that you can get to your O2. Many people have gotten Pain Free doing that. Mid cycle? Likely not. Help prevent the next cycle? Yeppers. 

After such a nice long break, it can be freaky when they begin again! I feel your pain there.

[dehabel]

CHfather I am so appreciative of the info!  

[dehabel]

I am being so annoying and I am sorry.  So, I am trying to figure out this D3 thing and it says I need 700 mcg of Vitamin A.  I take a fish oil supplement that has 625 mcg of Vit A.  Is this D3 thing an exact science or do I need to find a Vitamin A tablet that has only 75 mcg in it?  I have to take the fish oil supplement for my dry eyes. 

[ThatHurtsMyHead]

dehabel,

I think the most knowledgeable person around with the D3 regimen is Batch.  I'll drop him a note and see if he can check in here to answer your questions.  He's a wealth of knowledge on vitamins.

Cheers,

J 

[dehabel]

 

Thank you!

[xxx]

Hey Dehabel.

You're not annoying.  You've received some great answers about Benadryl (Diphenhydramine HCL).  Diphenhydramine is classified as an anticholinergic - a chemical that blocks the action of the neurotransmitter acetylcholine (ACh) at synapses in the central and the peripheral nervous systems.  Accordingly, it should only be taken for a week to 10 days dosing at 25 mg every 3 to 4 hours during the day and at bedtime.  As Diphenhydramine a also classified as a first-generation antihistamine, it's antcholinergic properties will make you drowsy so you should avoid driving while taking this much.  If you do need to drive during the day, wait until you're home for the day then take 50 mg as you walk through the door and another 50 mg at bedtime.  If an allergic reaction is contributing to the frequency, severity and duration of your CH, Benadryl (Diphenhydramine HCL) should start providing relief in a few days.  If there's been no change in your CH patterns, after a week, discontinue.'  

The Diphenhydramine mechanism of action is relatively simple.  As a first-generation antihistamine, it crosses the blood brain barrier (BBB) into the brain and blocks histamine H1 receptors at the genetic layer in neurons throughout the brain and in particular, the trigeminal ganglia where histamine released as a result of an allergic reaction, triggers the expression of Calcitonin Gene-Related Peptide (CGRP) and Substance P (SP) another neuroactive peptide.  These are two of the four neuropeptides responsible for the neurogenic inflammation and pain we know as cluster and migraine headache.  It is also important to note that second- and third-generation (non-drowsy) type antihistamines cannot cross the BBB to block histamine H1 receptors in neurons throughout the brain and CNS so will be less effective.

I look at Benadryl (Diphenhydramine HCL) as a diagnostic tool.  If it works to reduce the frequency, severity and duration of your CH, histamine is the likely culprit.  If it doesn't work, the odds are higher histamine is not your problem.

Many of us have found adjusting the vitamin D3 intake to be a more effective and much safer method of controlling and preventing CH than taking Benadryl (Diphenhydramine HCL).  The following photo illustrates the supplements by brand in the basic anti-inflammatory regimen CH and MH preventative treatment protocol.  All are taken daily with the largest meal of the day at the doses shown for the first 12 days.  After that, you reduce the vitamin D3 dose (Bio-Tech D3-50) to one capsule a week and continue taking everything else daily.  There's a lot more to this regimen and you'll need to discuss it with your PCP/GP before starting it, when asking for labs of your serum 25(OH)D3, calcium and PTH (Parathyroid Hormone).  CHers who stick with the brands illustrated below tend to have higher favorable response rates.

With the exception of the Bio-Tech D3-50 50,000 IU water soluble vitamin D3 that I added in place of the 5,000 IU oil-based liquid softgel vitamin D3 formulations in July of 2018 and the Methyl Folate + I added in place of the vitamin B 50/100 complex in January of 2019, the rest of these supplements have remained unchanged since 16 December, 2011.   The rationale for these changes is due to the higher bioequivalence and improved efficacy in controlling and preventing CH and MH these two supplements offer.  Readers of my webpage at vitaminDwiki.com at the following link have downloaded 51,216 copies of the anti-inflammatory regimen CH and MH preventative treatment protocol since I posted it in January of 2017.

https://vitamindwiki.com/Cluster+headaches+substantially+reduced+by+10%2C000+IU+of+Vitamin+D+in+80+percent+of+people

You will also find a copy of this protocol at the above link.  If you're interested in starting this CH and MH preventative treatment protocol please take a copy to your PCP/GP to discuss and ask for lab tests of your serum 25(OH)D3, calcium and PTH before starting this treatment protocol.   You can also download a copy of this treatment protocol by clicking on the following link.  http://www.vitamindwiki.com/tiki-download_wiki_attachment.php?attId=7708

I've sent you a PM with more information about this CH and MH preventative treatment protocol.  That you experienced an 8-year haitus, free of CH tells me you're a good candidate for the anti-inflammatory regimen.  It's likely something changed in your diet or there was a decrease amount of summer sun you were getting that caused your CH to return.

This bring us to the burning questions you may have...  Will this treatment protocol be effective for me and is it safe?  The best answer I can provide comes from data compiled from the online survey of 313 CHers who have started this treatment protocol since 16 December, 2011 when I placed this survey on the Internet. The year over year efficacy of this treatment protocol between December of 2011 and December 2018, finds 80% of CHers experiencing a significant reduction in the frequency of their CH from 21 CH/week down to 4 CH/week in the first 30 days after starting it.  53% of CHers starting this regimen experience a lasting cessation of CH in the first 30 days.  It's important to understand that this regimen needs to be taken daily in order to experience results like this.  Most of us who take this regimen daily, consider it a way of life that keeps us CH pain free.  Moreover, the health benefits that come from taking this regimen are hard to ignore.

The exciting news comes from CHers who started this survey during 2019 after I changed the suggested form of vitamin D3 to the Bio-Tech D3-50.  The efficacy of this protocol during 2019 finds over 90% of CHers experiencing a favorable response with a significant reduction in the frequency of their CH in the first 30 days from 21 CH/week down to 4 CH/week and 67% of CHers experiencing a complete and lasting cessation of their CH in the first 30 days. 

I've tracked results from all open source RCTs of CH prophylaxis and none of them come even close to this level of efficacy.  Moreover, since this treatment protocol went online, there have been no reports of hypercalcemia, a.k.a., vitamin D3 intoxication/toxicity nor have there been any adverse events reported that required medical attention.  The following charts illustrate data from 313 CHers who started this treatment protocol since December of 2011, then took this survey ≥ 30 days later.

The following chart illustrates the normal distribution (green curve) and cumulative probability (blue curve) of lab results for serum 25(OH)D concentrations after ≥ 30 days on this regimen.

The following two charts illustrate the time to respond after starting this regimen.

Taken in concert with the efficacy data, the above charts make a clear case that an inverse relationship exists between the frequency of CH and 25(OH)D3 serum concentration.  In simple terms, when the frequency of CH is high, the 25(OH)D3 serum concentration is low around a mean of 24 ng/mL and when the CH frequency is low or the CHer is CH pain free, mean 25(OH)D3 serum concentration is higher around 80 ng/mL.  This is why it's important to obtain lab tests of your serum 25(OH)D3, calcium and PTH before starting this regimen and again 30 days after starting it.

You can thank the 313 CHers who took the time to take this survey.  They came from 35 countries around the world.

Take care and please keep us posted should you decide to start this treatment protocol.

V/R, Batch

 

 

[fillzeros]

Diphenhydramine is only half the power of Dextromethorphan

Please Christ remove the pain of CH for our brothers in hell.

Quote

I had personal success gradually terminating a cluster headache and almost entirely preventing chronic suffering for two months with 475mg of Dextromethorphan Hydrobromide.

I believe that there is much more to preventing cluster headaches than a selective serotonin antagonist

I believe there is a chemical correlation between the psychoactive effects of DXM and psilocilin, despite the mechanisms employed for reaching those effects

Success with dextromethorphan, several theories -> clusterheadaches.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=medsarchive2003;action=display;num=1044880959

Some quick reports of online DXM Reports: Cough Medicine? More Like Soul Medicine ;Analgesic Application of Smaller Dose;Transcending the Ego: A Journey through Love;
No Buzz, No Hangover, Just a Perfect World;Enough to Skip One Dose of My Medication  -----> https://erowid.org/experiences/subs/exp_DXM.shtml

 

 

DXM is a Uncompetitive antagonist of the NMDA receptor via the MK-801/PCP site
DXM Like Ketmaine induces a trance soothing euphoric like state while providing pain relief, sedation & other effects.

Dextromethorphan is an opioid-like drug that binds to and acts as antagonist to the NMDA glutamatergic receptor, it is an agonist to the opioid sigma 1 and sigma 2 receptors, it is also an alpha3/beta4 nicotinic receptor antagonist and targets the serotonin reuptake pump.Antagonism of the NMDA receptor is thought to be responsible for the anesthetic, amnesic, dissociative, and effects of ketamine & dxm

Quote

https://www.benylin.co.uk/products/dry-cough-medicines/benylin-dry-coughs

https://www.amazon.com/Robafen-Cough-Liquidgels-Dextromethorphan-Packs/dp/B00CSF8070

https://robocough.com/

DXM is cheap as chips in the USA and can be found at Walmart and pharmacies.

 

[Rod H]

Dehabel I've been here a few years now and this is the 1st I've heard of chugging robotussin for clusters. So take some of what you read with a grain of salt and feel free to ask before you try something that isn't proven.

[jon019]

2 hours ago, fillzeros said:

To be honest, either take 1-2 bottles of DXM... You get a opioid like effect and helps increase serotonin via SSRI ....

...............advising 4-8 X typical dosage of ANY med is irresponsible.........

[dehabel]

No worries with me, I am afraid to take a Benadryl...but other people may listen...prob not wise or responsible. 

[Rod H]

Benadryl is proven to help. Just be advised there are some that will come here and say cure. There isn't one ,but you can find ways to make clusters tolerable and life worth living. You will also find someone who can relate with your experiences here. Welcome

[fillzeros]

9 hours ago, dehabel said:

No worries with me, I am afraid to take a Benadryl...but other people may listen...prob not wise or responsible. 

https://erowid.org/experiences/subs/exp_DXM.shtml

DXM and its major metabolite, dextrorphan, also block glutamate receptors at high doses, which produces effects similar to, yet distinct from, the dissociative states created by other dissociative anesthetics such as ketamine, nitrous oxide, and phencyclidine

Ketamine is a painkiller mainly used for Children and old People, so unless you are scared of a molecule, a gift from the stars above that

[spiny]

No. Just no. This is rather like saying 'Lets kill our liver with Tylenol today!' 

In many states Robitussin is kept behind the counter at any pharmacy, due to people taking it for the so called 'high'. 

We know that opioids do not help CH.  

The 'quote' from Clusterheadaches does not produce a return if clicked on and was from 2003. I am fairly sure that you could find many totally unsuitable ideas on many boards if you care to invest the time to hunt for such posts. If this was valid and valuable information, after 17 years, there would be current posts reflecting the success of doing this. 

This is bad advice. I highly doubt that members are looking for a new way to get high. What they are looking for is pain relief. Not a cheap high that might prove deadly. 

fillzeros - Did you take this for CH? Cut and paste quotes are fine, but not as a stand alone trying to prove the efficacy of a destructive treatment. Dredging up old posts is ok to support your point. However, your point seems to be to get high, not get pain free. It works for you?  In looking back over your posts, I do not find one which states that you have CH and have used Robitussin to conquer CH. Just this one which does not state that it made you pain free, but that it made you high.

[fillzeros]

https://www.practicalpainmanagement.com/pain/headache/intranasal-ketamine-relief-cluster-headache

https://www.biospace.com/article/releases/iv-ketamine-infusions-dramatically-improve-the-quality-of-life-for-severe-migraine-patient/

The author offers anecdotal evidence of the anesthetic agent in relieving and reducing episodic as well as chronic cluster attacks.

By John Claude Krusz, PhD, MD

Pages 36-37

Ketamine’s Mechanism of Action

Ketamine (2-chlorophenyl)-2-(methylamino)-cyclohexanone hydrochloride), a human and veterinary anesthetic agent, has an extremely varied set of pharmacologic actions depending on the dosage used.¹ A selective uncompetitive N-Methyl-D-aspartic acid (NMDA) glutamate receptor antagonist, the drug has been in legitimate clinical use since 1963.

Very good article on Ketamine Use in Migraine, Cluster Headache, and Neuropathic Pain Disorders

Dextromethorphan suppresses the cough reflex by a direct action on the cough center in the medulla of the brain. Dextromethorphan shows high affinity binding to several regions of the brain, including the medullary cough center. This compound is an NMDA antagonist.

That is why I am suggesting it, and its a legal OTC compound, so my prayers and hopes would be to try to find Ketamine either by clinical trials or other means.

Just trying to help. don't mean or want anything bad

[spiny]

Yes, Ketamine is used for CH. We have members who have received this treatment from their physician.

We would never encourage any member to take 2 bottles of cough syrup. There are many side effects, even at the recommended dosage, so why jump in for two bottles and risk a major problem because you are taking MAOI's or other necessary meds for other conditions? Robitussin in not without risk in the first place. And is not for those who take certain drugs on a daily basis.   

The 'proper' place for this post would be under Research &Scientific News. Members are always interested and read the posts there regarding what is happening to help our community. This would be a great place to put links you find interesting to the community. That would be an actual help. Would you like me to move this for you so that you are fulfilling your goal of providing help to those who suffer from CH? It would not be buried in a thread that would not be seen by many.

Adding the Shroomery Sponsor page is not needed or appreciated. I am asking you to not include such links and to delete it from your post.  

Since you evidently do not suffer from CH, you really cannot contribute your own experience on Share Your Busting Stories or Theory & Implementation. Those threads are for people in pain. Read them? Of course. Be sympathetic? Yes. Offer suggestions for treatment? Not a great idea. 

We do appreciate that your stated purpose is to help people in pain. I am asking you to use that desire to post in a way that will help the community.