pharmacology of BOL-148 (bromo-LSD) or LSD

[Psiloscribe]

How many so called Doctors, Students, and researchers have come here and promised us the sun moon and stars and never come back?

Potter

Very true Potter but because they quickly realize the difficulty and complexity of the project.

A few things I can add to the great info already posted. (thank you all)

1. Yes, the patent had nothing to do with the fallout.....I was there ;-)

2. There was a LOT of early lab/clinical work using BOL in humans. Most notably in migraine among others. By early, I mean, 1940s, 50s.

There is plenty of safety data. Again much of it so old that its not acceptable to the FDA.

Another one of those roadblocks..."You haven't done any recent safety trials.......no you can't do any safety trials"

3. Yes, the process of manufacturing BOL is complicated and expensive and if you were to ever be able to get any from a research lab, I would not ingest it unless you also have a mass spectrometer and a couple hundred thousand dollars worth of addition testing equipment in your basement.....and know how to use it.

As noted above, some of the reagent materials are very dangerous and if you can't test purity, you can't be sure of safety.

4. As noted, LSD is rather "dirty" (yes that's a scientific term not a reference to 50 Shades of grey" ;-)

It has a habit of being attracted to a wider range of receptors than would be helpful in determining its course of action for clusters. It may be a clue that BOL is blocked from some of these same receptors and still effective so if we get to do research on these differences, we may be able to zero in on where we really need to concentrate.

5. See number 2 as to why we were able to give it to humans in Germany.

6. I appreciate everyone's interest in this. It builds interest in the scientific community. It emphasizes the need for research and continues the conversations in the halls of academia.

Who knows, maybe someone will get so pissed off about all the talk about psychedelics will get off their asses and develop something better just to prove a point. Do I care? No? I just want SOMEONE to find something that works. Something that doesn't destroy or bodies while doing very little to help with the clusters. Something that doesn't require a lifetime of wires in the brain and battery packs like freaking energizer bunnies.

7. There are some very good and very dedicated people working on this. What is driving then is empathy for our condition. hey understand the suffering. Many of you know the feeling you get when you know you've helped even one person with this disease. Consider how you'd feel walking out of a lab knowing you've helped hundreds of thousands and generations to come.

8. After being in DC and Oakland these last two weeks, I have renewed confidence in number 7.

Bob

[Tony Only]

Awesome thread and I am so glad I happened to find it. This is what I have been wondering from patient point of view for years. What are the actual receptors that need to be "hit" for the efficient treatments of Cluster headaches?

It took me years to get rid of the prescriptive medication and start treating my CH with alternatives (with great success). Understanding the chemistry of triptans and how they affect our receptors in not a good way when considering the development of our condition was a big part in my decision to get rid of the pharma.

I am also interested about the "condition" of the receptors and what part they play in Clusters. What harms them and what is good for them. I think in depression, alcoholism and in lots of things you have less receptors to be able to receive anything - some of these mechanisms probably apply to cluster headaches too, especially over time.

I have sometimes thought that if I was forced (with a gun in my head) to use a prescriptive for treating CH it would be something that would mimic busting. Something affecting serotonin movement and if I would know the certain receptor(s), something to hit them.

So am very interested in reading how this turns out.

We have a danish scientist in our FB group who in my mind would be The Right Man for you to speak with. He knows his receptors and has written articles about them (in cluster headaches)

Our group is at https://www.facebook.com/groups/ch.naturals/

I will also message him and direct him to this thread.

[Dallas Denny]

If it hasn't I would love to (and my professor's group would be interested in) collaborate to get this research done. Our side (chemistry) can work to synthesize and discover all the selective agonists/antagonists as needed

Dude!!!  You Rock!!!!

Dallas Denny

[ub]

denny: ty, but ...(Potter does have a point)

very interested in talking to the danish scientist!

[Jeffrey]

Wow.......... this is some rather exciting stuff! 

Superbly interesting also.  I spent many hours in between attacks back in 2011 reading some of this type of research. 

Coming back now, 2 years later and finding this info on BOL, and now this thread, is very encouraging.

[Victor]

I'd like to join in the big thank you to Ub. All the luck in the world to you!!!!!

[lemaire]

bonjour,désolé mais je suis nul dans votre langue,je souffre (en français)d'algie vasculaire de la face et le bromo lsd (bol 148) serait le bien venu mais malgré toutes vos bonnes intentions le lobby pharmaceutique fait tout pour faire avorter ce projet depuis des années ,trop efficace pour être rentable pour eux, il perdrait trop d'argent sur la baisse des ventes des triptans,vérapamil ,épitomax,lithium...j'espère que vous saurez me traduire;un grand bonjour de la France

[lemaire]

i tried to make a tranlation :i suffer from cluster headaches and face bromo lsd(bowl 148)would be welcome but despite all your good intentions phamaceutical lobby is doing every thing to derail the project for years,too efficient to be profitable for them,he would lose too much money on declining sales of triptans,vérapamil,épitomax,imiject...a big hello from France

[Bejeeber]

Hi Lemaire, a big howdy back from Jeebs. 

[Purple]

Salutations  du Québec, Lemaire :-)

...j'ai toujours trouvé particulier l'entêtement de la France à appeler notre affligeant mal "algie vasculaire de la face", ce que je trouve vraiment inesthétique d'une part comme appellation, et plutôt incorrect médicalement... ça limite le mal à un problème vasculaire et dans la face (visage peut-être?) haha en tout cas à toutes les fois que je lis ça, je ris.... je trouve que ça fait pas sérieux comme nom de maladie

En tout cas ici, en anglais, le problème de l'appellation porte plutôt sur la portion céphalée (headache)... les gens ici ne sont pas d'avis que ce sont des maux de tête et proposent généralement plutôt Cluster Attacks

et donc ...personne sur la planète ne s'entend sur la cause de notre mal, son origine, non plus que sur son appelllation, quelle que soit la langue...

Une chose est certaine: on est tous dans le même club...

Mais je ne suis pas sûr franchement qu'il y ait des lobbys pour empêcher l'avancement du BOL-148 bien qu'il soit vrai qu'une éventuelle perte de ventes de triptans... mais les clients souffrant de cluster attacks ne représentent rien en termes de ventes ou de pertes, on n'est vraiment très peu dans le club...

Par contre j'admets que, si le LSD, le BOL-148, les champis peuvent traiter les migraines, alors là, là... oui, les lobbys, ça se peut, parce que les migraineux, eux, y sont beaucoup.

En tout cas, ça fait plaisir de pouvoir m'exprimer plus librement dans ma langue, merci de m'en avoir donné l'occasion, et bienvenue sur Clusterbusters

[Purple]

Other than discussing the way the French call CH which I find incorrect and ugly (algie vasculaire de la face, litterally: face vascular suffering), I was replying to Lemaire that

I don't think there are lobbies of pharmaceutical pushing to refrain the development of BOL-148 since there so few of us clusterheads and that we represent just a tiny dot in potential or lost sales... but that if BOL-148, shrooms, LSD can treat migraines, then maybe yes, the lobbies are playing a part in this slow-evolving issue.

so maybe the pharmas know something we don't? I mean I know shrooms can treat migraines, but to what extent do they know that?

[CHfather]

Speaking of BOL, I feeling depressed because of what I thought I heard Dr. Halpern say at the conference about Entheogen.  What I thought I heard him saying was that if Entheogen didn't enlist some big-money support by the end of this year, the patent for BOL would revert back to the universities from which Entheogen was licensing the patent (and he was pessimistic about how quickly the university patent-holders would act to develop BOL).  I might have heard that wrong, and I welcome any information that anyone has about the current status of BOL.

[Purple]

thanks for informing me of that, CHfather

When I'm not in cycle, I find difficult to keep up with everything here...

     ...actually, being on this board always tickles the beast, so I never stay long... could be same way of action as Pavlov's bells? LOL

[Guest]

has anyone ever used http://www.erowid.org/smarts/hydergine/     hydergine... before.. the guy who created Lsd  made this ergot derivative to treat memory problems ... among other things... like lsd without the trip..       doctors have been prescribing it for years for the elderly.. im wondering has anyone tried it?

[Bejeeber]

I found that particular link to be broken when I tried it, but hydergine sure sounds interestinger'n all git out.

I personally don't recall seeing it mentioned here before, but upon searching the CB site here I found it referred to in a Cluster Headache, Dreaming & Neurogenesis article. https://www.clusterheadaches.com/cb/yabbfiles/Attachments/CH__Dreaming___Neurogenesis.pdf

So I imagine it has been tried for CH.......?

[Purple]

So I imagine it has been tried for CH.......? 

no Jeebs, that document just lists towards the end different Medicinal uses of entheogenically derived substances 

" Arguably the most successful product developed following entheogenic research has been hydergine, a valuable geriatric medicine used as a cerebral vasodilator. It improves oxygenation of the brain(...)"

First time I hear of it. Thanks for sharing holygrailmushrooms. It's really interesting.

here is some links

http://www.biogenesis-antiaging.com/product_info.php?products_id=102

http://www.erowid.org/smarts/hydergine/hydergine_info1.shtml

http://www.erowid.org/search.php?q=hydergine

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydergine

vasodilatator and helps with hypertension

http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/9/1/48.full.pdf

I'm not sure what it would do for CH, but I'd like to try it as a "smart drug" and go back to university 

maybe we should start a new thread...

[weatherman]

ub,

First of all, THANK YOU for getting involved. 

Another intellegent person is added to the battle against CH ..... and is not even a sufferer!  Hurray for your motivation to help people with this crappy condition.

No doubt, the hurdles are monsterous.  I've done more than the casual collection of reading (and asking) material on this subject, and though I'm scientifically educated (physics, not medicine .... sorry), there seems to be a plethora of unanswered questions and confusion in areas that need more study.  This is a horrifically complicated illness and needs detailed study by people who are capable of this task.  Sheesh, at least don't discourage them.

There are plenty of bright folks in this group who have lent wonderful, intelligent advice and support ... now THAT's what I like to see!!  Let's at least give 'em a chance to find something that can help us.  You just never know when that "discovery" can be made.  If enough attention gets directed here, and just maybe when the level of endorsement is raised high enough, Big Medicine may take notice.

I can surely imagine the day when my doctor can write a prescription, I can get it reasonably priced at my local drugstore, and my headaches are gone.  Wholly crap, what a miracle that would be ........ and it's only just out of reach.

That's where Bob W started the whole thing.  Let's keep it rollin'.

weatherman

[didgens]

...my best plan of action right now is to order some LSD, 2-bromo LSD

Danged if that isn't the same best plan of action of a whole lot of headbangers here have! If only we could just hop on the phone and say "yeah gimme some of those Bromos, and toot sweet. Is there discounted shipping if I order in bulk?". 

that's hysterical .. but I digress