Medical Marijuana

[Willly]

Hello -- I'm in the middle of a cycle, and looking for relief. Unfortunately through trial and error it seems that only the bad meds provide me with any real relief, but I can't live my life on prednisone and opiates. I am on 400 mg Topomax, Verapamil, Lithium, and a bridged medical o2 tank system giving me 20 lpm (my wife is scared of the welders tank idea...).

Now I am luck enough to live in CA where Medical Marijuana is legal. I have a recommendation, and have been getting significant relief the few times I have tried.  My question for those who use on a regular basis is if the are certain strains that are better than others at relieving CH pain.  I'm sure there are.

Thank you in advance.  Will

[MoxieGirl]

Hi Will,

From what I've read on this forum, 'Iowa ditch weed' (as we called it growing up) doesn't normally work in a good way on clusters. I don't remember the technial reason, but it either enlarges the blood vessels when we want to shrink them, or it shrinks them when we want to enlarge them. One day I will remember which way around it is.

But, from what I've seen, for most people it makes them worse. That said, most cluster heads can't touch alcohol, but I don't have a problem with it. In fact, it is an abortive for migraines for me.

So, if it works, awesome!

I've tried different strains of mushroom, and I haven't noticed a difference in them impacting clusters. But I have noticed I have fewer other reactions to various strains. I've finally found one that doesn't make my body itch for 20 minutes after taking it, that sort of thing.

My advice, is if you have access to different strains, try different ones, see what works.

MG

[Ricardo]

From what I've read on this forum, 'Iowa ditch weed' (as we called it growing up) doesn't normally work in a good way on clusters. I don't remember the technial reason, but it either enlarges the blood vessels when we want to shrink them, or it shrinks them when we want to enlarge them.

The idea for a long time has been that when you are having a cluster there is some part of your brain or head that is getting too much blood flow.  The theory went on to guess that vasodilators will open up blood vessels, making more blood available to your brain and theoretically making the cluster worse.  The theory also said that a vasoconstricter would lessen the amount of blood available to the area, making the cluster worse. 

This is old thinking that as as far as I can tell is completely wrong.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=10878082

As far as Marijuana, it has been one of the most helpful things I have ever come across for my clusters.  Alone, it has helped me a few times, even aborting what I thought would be a pretty bad one.  Most times though, the real help I get is in the combination of drugs.  I do wonder if the blood vessel dilating effect could be one of the helpful things in this regard...I feel like at times my metabolization gets "stuck"  I can take drugs and have them just not be very effective.  Then I toke and it opens up the flood gates.  I have had this happen with mushrooms, ketamine, coffee, opiates.  I have had to watch out with the ketamine at times...There have definitely been times where I was at work taking Ketamine all day and not toking...get home, take a puff and the Ketamine floods over me.  It is something I now know I have to watch out for.

The coffee/marijuana combo (known affectionately as the "hippie speedball" by many a stoner) seems to be especially helpful.  It can make a strong cup of coffee that gave me marginal success against a cluster 100% more effective.  I have had quite a few times where I was just going through my coffee/cannabis routine to try and help the cluster, (but fulling planning on taking Imitrex) and finding I didn't need it.   

Definitely makes the amount of Ketamine I need much much less (warning to the other ketamine users--it will also make you much more intoxicated)  I have found the same with opiates.  In fact, opiates are not that helpful for me UNLESS I smoke.  I had one time in particular where I ended up in the ER getting shot up with Dilaudid.  It made me not care so much, but the opiate hardly touched the real cluster.  Then I went home and took one toke and got 100% relief that lasted.

Here is a peer reviewed case study showing how one person who did not have relief from much of anything else, did get relief from both smoked cannabis and Dronabinal, a synthetic THC pill

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19220500

You know if there is one person that there has got to be more.

As far as strains, I find the more hallucinatory Sativa strains to be much more helpful than the sedating Indica strains, but usually I go for a good mix that is predominately Sativa.

Last thought--even if the chances are slim that it will work for you--besides oxygen is there really anything that comes close to the unbelievable non-toxic Cannabis?  Try it!  If it works you have something damn close to unheard of--a cluster med that is not toxic for you. 

-Ricardo

[heilette]

Thanks Ricardo for this!!!

[MoxieGirl]

Amazingly well said, as always, Ricardo. Thank you for the accurate information.

MG

[Mwib87]

Maby this list with strains that supposedly helps with migraines can be of some use against CH?

http://www.leafly.com/explore#/Migraines

If I had the opportunity to get a hold of some of these strains I would at least give them a try

[Willly]

That is a really helpful site. Thank you all for all of your responses.  I will report back shortly.

[Bejeeber]

Agreed, that definitely is a helpful site.

I'll just try'n interject some second hand info that I've heard from BB, a resident medical marijuana expert here:

Ingesting as opposed to smoking it is considered by many to be more effective for migraines.

Please correct me if I'm wrong BB. 

[Ricardo]

Ingesting as opposed to smoking it is considered by many to be more effective for migraines

I have heard other migraine patients say this.  For me it is the exact opposite.  I puff tuff but never go near the edibles--if I do I will most definitely get a heavy cluster.

I am not familiar with what type of strains are good for migraines, do people tend to go more sedating (Indica) or more hallucinatory (Sativa) or just some sort of mix?

[b.g.]

Yeah the differences in all of us with MMJ are incredible.

As a Michigan resident, I was carded for clusters, and had the chance to grow/try many different strains in my couple years there.

I couldn't smoke it.  Period.  Smoking = attack almost every single time......BUT..... medibles after an attack are a God-send for me.

I am always left with residual facial pain on the right side and medibles smoothed that right out for me.

I did have an acquaintance with clusters who found relief from smoking though.  He swore by the Moby Dick and Moby #2 (from Greenhouse Seeds I believe).

EDIT:  here you go: https://www.cannabis-seeds-bank.co.uk/green-house-seeds-moby-dick/prod_3322.html

It's a nice Sativa/Indica mix..... a little heavy on the Indica side.  SUPER STICKY with very high THC and actually pretty high CBD content as well.

Taking notes from his success I would take ounces of Moby and turn it into all kinds of medibles/tinctures with the aforementioned releif from residual pain.

For those using medibles, I would recommend the highest CBD content you can find.  Making canna-butter or even QWISO hash to eat is a very simple process.  Lately I have been melting QWISO into food grade glycerine oil and it it amazing.

For those smoking, I would go with as close to a 50/50 blend as you can find and go from there.

[b.g.]

You guys got my brain going so I'm gonna continue rambling for a bit here

Michigan first approved their Medical Marijuana laws in 2008 and I arrived there shortly after.  It was all brand new and weird.  None of Michigan's neighboring states have MMJ and the idea was VERY new to a lot of people.  Since 2008 there have been tons of documentaries filling the television, along with numerous article in newspapers and magazines that have helped educate the masses.  I was a recreational user as a younger guy ... but I had no idea that there was an entire behind the scenes world to cannabis.

For some people (the stereotypical older religious person) smoking is taboo.  Some patients can't smoke due to pre-existing medical conditions like emphysema.  Another reason people don't want to smoke is the smell.  Yes, even though it is legal in medical states, it is a multi-billion dollar industry and not everyone wants to advertise to the neighbors that they are sitting on some high quality cannabis ...... the world is full of bad people waiting to prey on the sick and the poor.

Enter medibles, tinctures, salves, and oils.

As a caregiver (that's what they call growers in medical states) one becomes MUCH more than a "hippie weed grower".  We have patients that depend on us for their daily health and well-bieng.  We become doctors/pharmacists/friends.  I dealt with cancer, death, wasting syndrome, epilepsy, fibromyalgia, and other horrible things on a daily basis.  More than I could have ever expected.

One thing about medibles that gives it a GREAT advantage over smoking the raw plant is the ability to measure out exact doses.  Or at least MUCH MORE close to exact. 

Every medical state has one I'm sure, and in Michigan it's a company called Cannalytics.  They can take raw marijuana and test it for chemical compounds.  You normally will see the peperwork/test results next to the pretty containers in your local dispensary ....... but not all caregivers spend the time/money to have their meds tested if they are growing for patients and not for the "commercial market" of dispensaries.  Just because a seedbank website says a certain strain has 17% THC and 4% CBD doesn't make it so.  Not even close.  There are sooooo many factors involved from seed to harvest to obtain those results.  Light, grow method, nutrients, pest infestations ..... all of these things drastically affect chemical compounds in the finished product.  The flowers from the top of the plant may have a different chemical makeup than flowers from the middle or the bottom of the plant ..... the possibilities of skewed numbers are literally endless.  Like any other advertising in the world ..... they are giving you the best possible results from the best possible conditions.

When we concentrate raw flowers into "hash", we can compress an entire plant into one small handful of material, have that material tested, and be 100% certain of the same chemical makeup throughout the entire batch of hash.  That hash can then be used to make something simple like butter.  I won't bore you with the math, but obviously if you add 3 grams of hash to 1 pound of butter you can figure out exactly how much medication is in a tablespoon of butter.

Medibles can be "constructed" to be 100% effective on the body and have zero effect on the mind (or vice versa).  They travel easy ... they don't smell ... they are safer on the lungs .... and the ingestion possibilities are longer than train smoke.

Cannabis infused olive oil for pasta or side salads is my favorite......Canna-butter on popcorn is good too

[Ricardo]

Cannabis infused olive oil for pasta or side salads is my favorite......Canna-butter on popcorn is good too

When I used to eat the ganja, my favorite was coconut milk.  So easy and super tasty.  A warm cup of ganja coconut tea really hits the spot

Another reason people don't want to smoke is the smell.

When I was younger and had the local PD harassing the hell out of me this was a common problem.  Some tricks I learned---after breaking up bud the oils stay on your fingers and won't come off with regular soap.  Washing your hands with a little olive oil, then washing it off with soap works great.  Another thing is how to get it off your breath--extremely hard (especially if you like the industrial sized bong hits like I do) seems like nothing gets it off my breath except those tea tree toothpicks.  I read how another guy thought that the smell was sticking to his clothes, so he only smoked naked.  A little extreme for me

-Ricardo

[b.g.]

When I was younger and had the local PD harassing the hell out of me this was a common problem.  Some tricks I learned---after breaking up bud the oils stay on your fingers and won't come off with regular soap.  Washing your hands with a little olive oil, then washing it off with soap works great.  Another thing is how to get it off your breath--extremely hard (especially if you like the industrial sized bong hits like I do) seems like nothing gets it off my breath except those tea tree toothpicks.  I read how another guy thought that the smell was sticking to his clothes, so he only smoked naked.  A little extreme for me

-Ricardo

hahaha, yeah a little extreme

I had a patient who was "older" and lived in an apartment complex.  She had a crazy system of inline high power fans and carbon scrubbers installed in her house so she could blow her bong smoke into the fan, have the air cleaned, and then have it discharge through the roof. 

After a few complaints from neighbors about the hallways smelling like pot smoke all the time (makes me think of the hotel parties from years ago) she had all that stuff installed. 

Eventually she got onto medibles, the neighbors never smelled any smoke, and she sold all the fans and carbon scrubbers to a local grower

[Ricardo]

I had a patient who was "older" and lived in an apartment complex.  She had a crazy system of inline high power fans and carbon scrubbers installed in her house so she could blow her bong smoke into the fan, have the air cleaned, and then have it discharge through the roof.  

One of the best ideas that I stumbled on was how to smoke ganja in a hotel room without getting caught-

Only pack enough in the bowl so there will be nothing left after one hit, otherwise there will be smoke rising up off the bowl.  Then blow your hit into a large trash bag, tie it in a knot, and stick it in the corner until morning.  Then it's just a bag of smelly air (that is not recognizable as ganja).  I usually just walk out to the car with the trash bag and open it out there.  I have had occasions where in one night I went through at least half a box of trash bags...   

[spiny]

Kids use an empty tp roll with a fabric softener sheet held over the end. I don't know if it works, but they think it does. Your room smells like you just dried clothes supposedly.

[Ricardo]

Kids use an empty tp roll with a fabric softener sheet held over the end. I don't know if it works, but they think it does. 

It does   I'm still always afraid that I'm going to set off a smoke alarm with my fresh scented ganja smoke though...

[b.g.]

Yup, the old fabric softener sheets in the empty toilet paper tube is a time-honored and well-tested method   ..... but you still have to worry about the residual smoke from the joint, bowl, bong (or whatever you are using as a smoking implement)

---- the moral of the story though ... medical marijuana has a very distinct and very POTENT odor when smoked.......... but you can eat a canna-cookie while sitting in church and nobody would know

Medibles don't make your breath, clothes, hands, or car smell like marijuana. 

This thread has gone off-track .... damn pot heads    

[Brent212]

I gave this a try last night for the first time and holy hell did it backfire. I'm 2 weeks into a cluster (they usually last ~3 weeks for me) and ran out of O2 yesterday (couldn't get it filled on a Sunday, but got it refilled this morning), so I called up a friend who's a mild pot head and asked him if I could get a nugget.

According to him, the stuff he gave me is "very high quality", and while it didn't work out for my purposes, I gotta say that it was incredibly potent and would have been enjoyable had the whole headache thing not been an issue. I hardly ever smoke, so I tried to just take a small hit on my first test run, with the intention of going bigger the next night if all went well.

Well first of all, the "small" hit had me coughing like a 14 year old... not sure if it was because it's been so long, or if the weed was really strong, but that was definitely all I needed to get crazy high.

The problem was that within probably 60 seconds I felt the beast come at me full force. I forgot to mention that before I took the hit, I had just started to feel the signs that an attack was nearing... seemed like the perfect time to see if the weed would abort it.

What followed was a night in hell. It was as bad, if not worse, than any CH I've had. Being high contributed in two main ways, one good, one bad.

The good was that it did somewhat numb me to the pain. So while I could tell that the pain was insane, I was able to handle it better than usual... if I were to say the attack was a 10, I'd say it affected me as if it were a 7... it was weird because I could definitely feel the pain as a 10, but I was so stoned that I wasn't in as much agony as I would have been otherwise.

The bad was that time seemed to drag by soooooo sloooooooowly. Holy shit it was torture... I kept looking at the clock, hoping enough time would have gone by for either the pain meds I took after the attack started to start kicking in, or for the attack to be nearing completion (they usually last between 1 and 3 hours for me). What seemed like 15 minutes would turn out to be 3-5 minutes.

So long story short: weed doesn't work for me, or at least, my first attempt went badly enough that I'm not gonna fck with it again.

[blueballs]

ganga coconut..likely to try that....the deal is ..or is  or the research indicates that CBDs are better for some things as THC is better for others. Butter and oils with high CBDs can and do eliminate siezures and treat cancer. Smoking would have higher levels of THC. The idea is in my mind ,ganga has over 70 cannabinoids.  Smoking you get 21. Eating infused cannabutter I get all of them.... I like a good smoke though. Not with CH though..cant smoke when those are at high levels..going to make ganga coconut tea now. 8-)

Good info stuff there Ricardo thanks

bb

[heilette]

b.g.

Have you ever tried "Wild Dagga"(Leonotis leonurus)? In a tea, not smoking it.

h

[b.g.]

b.g.

Have you ever tried "Wild Dagga"(Leonotis leonurus)? In a tea, not smoking it.

h

I can't say that I have??  I'll go look that up

[Moffaka]

On 06.07.2013 at 2:25 PM, Ricardo said:

It does   I'm still always afraid that I'm going to set off a smoke alarm with my fresh scented ganja seeds smoke though...

Loool, do not worry, firefighters do not mind smoking

[JamesF]

On 6/23/2013 at 10:33 AM, Ricardo said:

The idea for a long time has been that when you are having a cluster there is some part of your brain or head that is getting too much blood flow.  The theory went on to guess that vasodilators will open up blood vessels, making more blood available to your brain and theoretically making the cluster worse.  The theory also said that a vasoconstricter would lessen the amount of blood available to the area, making the cluster worse. 

This is old thinking that as as far as I can tell is completely wrong.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=10878082

As far as Marijuana, it has been one of the most helpful things I have ever come across for my clusters.  Alone, it has helped me a few times, even aborting what I thought would be a pretty bad one.  Most times though, the real help I get is in the combination of drugs.  I do wonder if the blood vessel dilating effect could be one of the helpful things in this regard...I feel like at times my metabolization gets "stuck"  I can take drugs and have them just not be very effective.  Then I toke and it opens up the flood gates.  I have had this happen with mushrooms, ketamine, coffee, opiates.  I have had to watch out with the ketamine at times...There have definitely been times where I was at work taking Ketamine all day and not toking...get home, take a puff and the Ketamine floods over me.  It is something I now know I have to watch out for.

The coffee/marijuana combo (known affectionately as the "hippie speedball" by many a stoner) seems to be especially helpful.  It can make a strong cup of coffee that gave me marginal success against a cluster 100% more effective.  I have had quite a few times where I was just going through my coffee/cannabis routine to try and help the cluster, (but fulling planning on taking Imitrex) and finding I didn't need it.   

Definitely makes the amount of Ketamine I need much much less (warning to the other ketamine users--it will also make you much more intoxicated)  I have found the same with opiates.  In fact, opiates are not that helpful for me UNLESS I smoke.  I had one time in particular where I ended up in the ER getting shot up with Dilaudid.  It made me not care so much, but the opiate hardly touched the real cluster.  Then I went home and took one toke and got 100% relief that lasted.

Here is a peer reviewed case study showing how one person who did not have relief from much of anything else, did get relief from both smoked cannabis and Dronabinal, a synthetic THC pill

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19220500

You know if there is one person that there has got to be more.

As far as strains, I find the more hallucinatory Sativa strains to be much more helpful than the sedating Indica strains, but usually I go for a good mix that is predominately Sativa.

Last thought--even if the chances are slim that it will work for you--besides oxygen is there really anything that comes close to the unbelievable non-toxic Cannabis?  Try it!  If it works you have something damn close to unheard of--a cluster med that is not toxic for you. 

-Ricardo

Extremely small sample, but, I am episodic and have been in one of the most vicious cycles I have experienced. I haven't had a CH in three years after starting the famous D3 regimen, thanks to Batch, and now I am getting hammered every night. With apologies to all the chronic sufferers for complaining/whining  at all about what little pain I suffer in comparison to you folks, I smoked some indica last night and did not have a ch for the first night in two weeks. Tried it again tonight so we will see. It was one great night off tho. I haven't smoked weed in half a year. Good to read that someone is getting relief thru maryjane.

[dmlonghorn]

59 minutes ago, JamesF said:

Extremely small sample, but, I am episodic and have been in one of the most vicious cycles I have experienced. I haven't had a CH in three years after starting the famous D3 regimen, thanks to Batch, and now I am getting hammered every night. With apologies to all the chronic sufferers for complaining/whining  at all about what little pain I suffer in comparison to you folks, I smoked some indica last night and did not have a ch for the first night in two weeks. Tried it again tonight so we will see. It was one great night off tho. I haven't smoked weed in half a year. Good to read that someone is getting relief thru maryjane.

Glad to hear you got some reprieve!

Have you tried edibles?

[JamesF]

14 hours ago, dmlonghorn said:

Glad to hear you got some reprieve!

Have you tried edibles?

Well, I had some indica again last night along with beer, red wine, and a small shot of tequila(it was my birthday party) and no CH for the second night in a row. I am in GA and do not have access to edibles.