Data on Cigarette Smoking, Triggers, Other Data

[Juss]

I'm too damn tired to write everything, but I make a concerted effort to read at least 10 journals per day. Usually, I bomb and make 5 or none. I met my quota and this appeared interesting.

If interested here is the journal. Yes, it is but one source; however, it is a start, and you must understand that we are a small sample size due to our limited population by proxy. And yes, it is from 2011, it still is semi-relevant and I will take it since it is not ghostwritten and/or sponsored.

 

[BoscoPiko]

Hi Juss,

I can't get the link to work?

[Juss]

Hold on, I can, but you have to double click, it’s an enormous PIA. Let me see if I can bypass the preview. IT is not an area I understand. That is one thing I never took the time to learn. Addressing

[Juss]

https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.1090.8231&rep=rep1&type=pdf

[Juss]

Okay, that should resolve the issue. For some reason it was embedding the link? I don’t understand this type of stuff, I need to take a few courses at junior college and get current. I hope that this helps. 
 

Signing off.

[BoscoPiko]

Interesting write up. I almost thought it was going to answer my question about heritage but then it went onto dominant eye color. Seems that smoking and having parents that smoked is a significant factor...

[CHfather]

Here's a more detailed breakdown of the data from that same 2008 survey (which surveyed people from ClusterBusters and also clusterheadaches.com, I think). https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29536529/ 

You have to remember that the "exposed" category includes people whose parent(s) smoked even if they don't smoke, people who once smoked, and people who were smokers at the time of the survey. "Nonexposed" is people who haven't smoked and were not exposed to second-hand smoke.  Because that "exposed" group is so broad, I don't think this tells you anything at all about the effects of being a current smoker on CH, and so it seems to me to have no action implications. You can't go back and stop your parents from smoking, and you can't never smoke if you have ever smoked.

The first highlighted finding is: "Nonexposed cluster headache subjects are significantly more likely to develop cluster headache at ages 40 years and younger, while the exposed sufferers are significantly more likely to develop cluster headache at 40 years of age and older."  Is this saying that smoking (or having been exposed to smoke) delays the onset of CH, and/or not smoking/not being exposed to smoke accelerates the onset?  That would be pretty weird if it were true, but maybe somehow valuable to researchers.  But I don't think they can be talking about causation; they can only be observing correlations, since you can't isolate being "exposed" or "nonexposed" from all the other variables that might account for any of the findings, just as "The exposed population is statistically significantly more likely to have a history of head trauma" seems only to be describing a relationship, not a causal connection.

[jon019]

...to me a backward question....rather than "does smoking cause/contibute to/have an effect on CH".....it seems more likely that having CH, or the genetics/predilection/predisposition to CH, leads to a higher incidence of smokers in that population. IOW: smoking doesn't cause CH > CH causes smoking.   

...i have no supporting documentation, research or texts on the subject....just totally unscientific observations and reading over the years that clusterheads, as a group, tend to be more impulsive, OCD, with addictive personality  traits (smoking, alcohol abuse, etc). possible contributing factors include dopamine, serotonin, hypothalamic or other neurological anomalies, pain, anxiety or ?. 

....no offense intended, this is complete and total speculation on my part and may just be a repeat of old theory from an old guy...you may return to your regular programming now....

[Shaun brearley]

See I go with the head trauma side of things,but again I've not done my research into this as I really am not a book buff and get really bored when given loads to read .I'm sorry I'm the sort of person that like thing explained straight to the point ,and my other problem is I have to look up the meaning of so many words in medical journals as I don't understand them , but getting back to head trauma I don't knowo if their has ever been a complex study into this as I don't really thing their has been to many complex studies into any cause for CH from my understanding. When I was 18 months old my god mother was looking after me whilst my mum and dad we're both working ,she had placed me in my baby chair on the kitchen worktop , the chair was a rocking chair so as I moved the chair moved , yes you can guess as I moved the chair moved until it fell off the worktop , I don't remember obviously, but I was told that I landed head first and was knocked out . I had a fractured skull from this accident .Sorry long explanation as to why I go with head trauma,but I've also been told by my late mother that my grandfather from her said also suffered from the same thing as us but was never diagnosed with anything as he was in WWII so doctors put his headaches down to shell shock, but again he was suffering in the 50s 60s and 70s when CH was totally unheard of 

[Pebblesthecorgi]

My personal belief is cluster folks use tobaccos as a vasoconstrictor which is why the prevalence is so high.   Sort of like "clusterheads use more energy drinks than the average person"

 

Anything to narrow those vessels and mitigate the pain

[jon019]

12 minutes ago, Pebblesthecorgi said:

My personal belief is cluster folks use tobaccos as a vasoconstrictor which is why the prevalence is so high.   Sort of like "clusterheads use more energy drinks than the average person"

...as an avid smoker i would have fully embraced that abort method....only for me, smoking during a hit was guaranteed to turn a shadow into a hit and a hit into a screamer. the help i derived from smoking was looking forward to the "reward" of a post hit smoke.... always the best of the day. i do wonder if the vasoconstriction during the day reduces frequency of hits for some. i tested the hell out of that by altering/quitting numerous occasions....but in my case, a cycle was a cycle with the same damn number of hits at the same damn time... every day. 

[Pebblesthecorgi]

Cluster headaches are like belly buttons, they have been around forever

Gordon2005_Article_HistoryOfClusterHeadache.pdf

[BoscoPiko]

15 hours ago, CHfather said:

"exposed" category includes people whose parent(s) smoked even if they don't smoke, people who once smoked, and people who were smokers at the time of the survey.

Thank you for pointing that out as I did not get that out of it when I read it. Makes quite a difference. 

[Shaun brearley]

I can smoke even when under attack . Can't say it helps or hinders . 

[BoscoPiko]

13 hours ago, Shaun brearley said:

but I was told that I landed head first and was knocked out . I had a fractured skull from this accident .Sorry long explanation as to why I go with head trauma,

I do recall seeing a brief write up on head trauma and CH somewhere don't remember where (probably on here). 

[Shaun brearley]

Sometimes wonder if it can be hereditary as I was told my grandfather suffered from same problem as I said but never diagnosed with it . Just makes you think about these things 

[Pebblesthecorgi]

Hard to imagine there’s not a genetic component.  It’s hard to clearly establish because so many are misdiagnosed or suffer delayed diagnosis.  And family history gets lost.  50 years ago crazy grandma was written off as a crock or malingering.  Who knows who had what?  Even those of us who have a deep pedigree there’s not enough info to know.  Also paternity could be inaccurate or there is an unknown adoption sort of situation.  I believe the genomic studies will cast a better light on whether genetics are a substantial contribution.

 

there is a study ongoing investigating this very question.  Several of us gave blood a few pre covid years ago. 

[Bejeeber]

The beast can come a knockin' via heredity, bonkings on the noggin, or a combo of the two. That is just my hunch after seeing the reports of various headbangers over the decades.

[CHfather]

From Rozen's big report: "A history of any significant head trauma prior to cluster headache onset was noted in 18%. The amount of time that lapsed between the head trauma and onset of cluster headache was not obtained."  

Maybe lots of people don't remember significant head trauma.

[jon019]

4 hours ago, CHfather said:

From Rozen's big report: "A history of any significant head trauma prior to cluster headache onset was noted in 18%.

...i wonder what the % is in non CH.....would seem most folks have had some kind of head trauma... tho there may well be a threshold level for expression.     i was run over by a car at 4 yrs old...direct hit middle of forehead....CH start at 26. seems too far apart but dunno......

[Sue mcdonald]

This seems confounding. There have been other similar studies. Utah. A university in Utah followed children of people who had anorexia. The children thru their lives stayed much thinner, leaner, throughout their lives, w.out trying. Carrying excess lbs is proven across the board to not be healthy overall. We've been raised on concept that DNA is hard  solid. Truth is NOW we've come to see DNA as softer. IOW? The smoking issue, right off the bat? I read into it as being an epigenetic issue possibly. Also? Theres many, many medical issues we simply dont have the medical knowledge to understand at this time. Our concepts of medical info is truely in its infancy. Think abt all the hardheaded stoopid, trained & highly paid medical personel *u have run into who simply have zero knowledge of chas? What did *u kno abt chas, prior to ur personal exposure? My 50 yrs of has, tmj has, migraines, basilar migraines (from dbl impact car accdt at 120 mph), chas? I didnt kno until after 3 mhh's, and i was arrested for having a cha? What they were labeled.

(Just found out ystrday? The nurse who had me arrested for having a cha? Was fired for doing something wrong.  Karma & i didnt have too spin the wheel. Next wld be the doc involved who last time in er? Didnt ask or tell me? but ordered nurses to trick me and give me an injection of haldol. He thinks hes real funny. Karma

Urs in educating the world abt chas. 

 

[Sue mcdonald]

On 12/21/2021 at 8:03 PM, Bejeeber said:

The beast can come a knockin' via heredity, bonkings on the noggin, or a combo of the two. That is just my hunch after seeing the reports of various headbangers over the decades.

Makes me wonder.. kids that listen to, and "headbang" to music? Maybe due to low level activation of CHAS?

[Sue mcdonald]

On 12/22/2021 at 7:22 AM, CHfather said:

Maybe lots of people don't remember significant head trauma.

Exactly.  Well documented head trauma interferes w? And frequently halts encoding of short term memory into long term memory. IOW? U dont/cant remember much abt head injuries. Covered 1ce a mc cop where a person had pulled car out of parking space, n she on mc, ran into car, sailed off n landed. Cracked helmet in half, blood coming out of nose mouth and ears. She never recovered her memory of accident at all. She survived alright n recovered;)