Jawbone cavitation source of cluster headaches

[seacrane]

I recently found out that I have a jawbone cavitation that was a result of having my wisdom teeth cut out when I was 16. They call this NICO – Neuralgia Inducing Cavitational Osteonecrosis. A jawbone cavitation is simply a hollow space or pocket in the bone that can be a source of silent infection. It is not readily visible to the eye and often causes no local discomfort, though it can be the hidden cause of facial pain syndromes, trigeminal neuralgia and cluster headaches.  The chief initiating factor is trauma to the jaw, often brought on by standard dental treatment.

My cluster headaches started about three months after having my wisdom teeth removed. Of course, no one thought to connect the two. I have classic symptoms of clusters - they wake me up in the middle of the night, they are on the righ side only, they happen sporadically about every 12-18 months and last for about 4-6 weeks - each headache lasting about 40 minutes or so. They are EXTREMELY painful and I have barely survived them.

I wanted to share this info with you guys in hopes that you might find solutions to your headaches by looking into dental causes. There is also a lot of evidence linking root canals and amalgam fillings to all types of headaches. I am scheduled for surgery in a few weeks. I will let the group know how it goes. I'm pretty sure this has been the cause of the clusters and feel sure they will abate after the site is cleared up.

Well Wishes...

Carol

[CHfather]

Carol, I'll be very interested in further reports from you.  My daughter's headache pain greatly intensified immediately after a very difficult tooth removal in 2004, and the removal of her wisdom teeth in 1999, also difficult, was very near to the initial onset of her CH symptoms.  We looked into NICO a bit and found it was quite controversial, which discouraged us from following up . . . but I have always wondered about the close correlation between her CH and that dental work.

Jerry

[Bejeeber]

Carol please do follow up afterwards, whatever the results.

I've seen zillions of CH'ers (including myself!) report having wisdom or other teeth extracted, blaming them for the CH, only to find no connection. It's a common rite of passage it seems.

Of course your thing is different, with cavitations caused by tooth yanking being suspect, so I for one will be waiting right here for post operative results. Thanks. 

[Guest]

http://facial-neuralgia.org/conditions/nico.html

http://facial-neuralgia.org/conditions/tn.html

ive done some quick browsing, and no where did i read cluster headache, tho i am also interested in your results

but what tickles me is how can psilo, lsd and lsa neutralize this infection along with o2 verap imitrex and steroids and all the other crazy stuff people use to try and stop theyre pain

i too had wisdom teeth surgically removed when i was 18, my CH started at 14 approx 10 days after a brain rattling cuncussion, and trauma to the head and jaw may be an underlying cause for this nico, also i do have some teeth and jaw problems, i only had 19 baby teeth, my lower jaw is small and one of my lower front teeth was tarpped by other when they were growing and basically rotten in my gum line  :-?

the symtoms and triggers of this NICO do not pretain to me and its durations of pain are not related to what i experience, and im sure many are in thesame boat and some in another

perhaps for you carol you may have nico and this could be triggering your clusterheadaches. although we do not know much of your acclaimed clusters or history and none of us are doctors and can only go by what we experience

and if perhaps this is the fore mentioned caused of these demonic headaches, there will be a lot of doctors in trouble

please do report back and inform us of your results, we are all interested

and remember these are MY thoughts and opinions. and opinions are like A-holes, every one has one

AO

[Jammin]

Never had a Wisdom pulled but do have a root canal and half a dozen old school fillings.

Would be awesome if your surgery solves this for you, I am anxious to hear the results.

Interestingly this jogged my memory way back to about the age of 14 (three years prior to my first dance with devil). My dentist at the time was trying to convince me that I should have an inch of jawbone taken out on both sides. He explained that I would most likely suffer from massive headaches as I became an adult due to my prominent jawline.

Of course there are some antiseptic qualities in many species of shrooms but I cannot imagine how my Jaw would connect to my brains inner working / clock.

Good luck though, look forward to hearing back from you!

[tingeling]

Hmmm...... I was ECH as a child. When i think of it now, it started after being at dentist. When i was adopted, i had been fed badly, so all my teeth was destroyed. I had to do all my teeth, except the ones that got pulled out. Later i have cut and pulled out wisdom teeth. But i did so, cause i hoped it was what caused CH. But why should it shift side if it was a silent infection? Very interesting.

Thank you for sharing this info

Tingeling

[kaboom]

I still have my wisdom teeth. 

I've played it over and over in my head "what happened to me that caused these headaches?!?".   For me, if it came down to trying to identify a specific  occurrence in my life that may have lead to CH's, it would be impossible. 

My jaw was dislocated due to a kick to the face about 3 years prior to my first memory of a CH.  During the 2 years prior to CH's, I was also in two car accidents, was electrocuted, and was knocked unconscious while playing baseball.

???

[Hipshot]

I have a mouth full of old school fillings, root canals, crowns, and wisdom teeth removed.

I too have wondered if all of the foreign matter in my mouth could have anythng to do with this pain. I have even contemplated having all teeth pulled. I would gladly use dentures, or go with no teeth at all if it would take the pain away.

Thanks for the post and please keep us updated.

Dan

[palm]

I also have a 'messed up mouth' situation.

But my CH cycles are about every 10 months, so that wouldn't make sense in terms of a bacterial infection in the mouth. And I didn't have any headaches during the times I had my teeth issues.

If it is as you say, anti-biotics should resolve your CH. Give that a try with an orthodontist to resolve that theory.

[Tony Only]

My CH started pretty much when I had my 1st tooth (normal one, not a wisdom tooth) removed. Had some root canal work going on as well. As I myself have sometimes thought of the connection, my dentist has always said there must be one and has been "over cautious" taking care of my teeth. Which are horrible, to date I have several teeth removed, lots of root canal work, fillings (30+) etc.

Would not surprise me at all if there would be a connection, in any level (maybe a starter or something).

[Handy]

Hi Carol.  Just a little food for thought, as they say...

When I started having clusters in 1999, I couldn't find (or didn't know what to look for) any information about what I was experiencing.  My family doctor had no clue as well.  "Take two Tylenol..."

At the time my clusters seemed to "start" in an area of my upper left jaw.  That seemed to be the center of the pain with it radiating outward from there.

As a result, I assumed it was related to a toothache.  In fact, I discovered that eating a box of ice cream in the dark was very soothing (I couldn't even feel the usual "brain freeze" type headaches from too much cold)...and so it wasn't long until I decided a tooth had to go.

After many x-rays and even a root canal, I had 1 molar pulled.  Perhaps, coincidentally, the season was coming to a close, but the extraction seemed to help...the pain ended and I was happy.

That was until the next cluster came around...and I started nagging the dentist again.  After much begging, I had another tooth pulled...but the clusters continued anyway.

I developed a real taste for Bryers ice cream during those dark nights, but while I was putting on the pounds I still was at a loss for what was going on (like many, I'm sure).  All I knew was that ice cream on the roof of the mouth was soothing...and that was my treatment until I found the CH.com site in about 2006...(the rest has little to do with this thread)

Anyway, what's the point?  I believe it is easy to misdiagnose these headaches when you have no information to go on.  After all, I had never heard of anyone on this side of sanity that had reoccurring headaches, in the same place, every night, for weeks and weeks while eating ice cream in the dark.

This may not be relevant to this thread, and I don't intend to minimize your post.  I do know that a real toothache can be very painful too.  I just offer this as another angle on the reason we are all here.

Greg

PS - I became more enlightened with the help of CH.com and I was soon successfully using oxygen after finding a neurologist.  I still have clusters, but I use ice without the cream, now. :

[CHfather]

Welcome, Handy, as the one thousandth member of this great group!  Since I'm just a relative newbie myself, I shouldn't really be doing the welcoming, but I couldn't resist.  I believe you have won a free date (sharing a banana split, perhaps?) with your choice of either Lisa Kudrow or our own Hipshot, but we'll probably have to get back to you on the exact details of that in a year or two.

[les genser]

This is an interesting and familiar discussion. I bet the vast majority of us have considered dental 'sources' for the pain, or had them considered for us. The search for causation and the need to justify to ourselves the reason for our suffering has to be universal; Lots of us have probably also jumped on the aha Eureka that has to be it train a few times.

I believe that dental or head trauma, because of proximity to the trigeminal complex and other nerves that pass through the hypothalamus, can always become part of the secondary triggering mechanism for CH.

They are not the cause. I stray into the realm of prophecy here based on much research and intuitive certainty: There is no physical cause or defect you can point at that 'causes' CH. We, and all our sad ass ancestors of the CH tribe who have searched for answers have never found one and will never find one.

The actual proximate cause is really pretty simple: a confused, misregulated hypothalamus. For episodics, its like using your hardware with software thats almost right most of the time. For chronics, the bad software locks up the machine regularly.

The operative question is why that happens, not how. Medicine just looks to the hardware, and computers rarely break down because of a loose screw. You can't see the software, just the results of it running. Our software is emotional, and energetic, and directly causative of all kinds of illness. Doctors are only beginning to recognize this, even though visionaries have been screaming this at them for, oh, about two thousand years. Not bad.

The actual cause of Cluster is internal to ourselves, energetic and emotional and stress related, and not a physical defect of any kind. 

[alleyoop]

The actual cause of Cluster is internal to ourselves, energetic and emotional and stress related, and not a physical defect of any kind. 

Les, are you suggesting that my two episodic brothers and I (primary chronic) are all coincidentally suffering because of some kind of emotional or stress related incident?

BTW, my hardware works just fine. 

bobb

[Handy]

Welcome, Handy, as the one thousandth member of this great group!  Since I'm just a relative newbie myself, I shouldn't really be doing the welcoming, but I couldn't resist.  I believe you have won a free date (sharing a banana split, perhaps?) with your choice of either Lisa Kudrow or our own Hipshot, but we'll probably have to get back to you on the exact details of that in a year or two.

Ha.  I'm currently working on the Atkins plan as I trim up for summer fashion, so I'll have to pass on the banana split.  However, I may considered a couple shots of Licorice Tinture water...as soon as I find some 

[met la]

mine started after car accident , but i did have a few teeth removed after the headaches came ,,, and it did not help one bit ,, . 

had my wisdom teeth pulled just to get the pain medicine , after the accident , but it had no effect at all on the headaches , the teeth or the medicine .

then i had more teeth pulled ,, every one of them that was not in good shape

none of it did any good at all .

but i hope it works for you

best wishes

[Bejeeber]

I am scheduled for surgery in a few weeks. I will let the group know how it goes.

Have you had the surgery Carol? if so, how'd it go?

[cheekybloke]

About 8 years ago. I broke my left front tooth in half horizontally. It required an extraction of the root. Approx 24 Hours after the extraction I experienced my first headache.  The first headache was very very scary as I didn't know long it was going to last and it was pain unlike anything I had ever experienced before. 'Luckily ' it ended within ~ 45 minutes. For ~ 5 years I suffered these headaches daily, sometimes 3 or 4 times a day, with a rare relapse lasting a week on occasion if I was lucky. After seeing Neurologists, ENT specialists, having MRI and CT scans, acupuncture, homeopathy and anything I could try that might help diagnose or relieve them, I was finally referred to The National Hospital for Neurosurgery and was diagnosed with CH.

I just wanted to share this as there does not seem to be much information on CH that cites dental extraction as a cause.

 

Since the CH diagnosis 5 years in, I now have Oxygen and Sumatriptan, i have been able to read up on all teh information surrounding them incl triggers and lifestyle, and they are now relatively under control.

 

 

[CHfather]

Thank you, cheeky'.

It could be the dental extraction was a cause . . . We thought that about my daughter's situation, in which she began having CH attacks after a difficult extraction.*  However, it's just as likely that attacks after dental work are caused by the anesthetic that is typically used, xylocaine, which contains epinephrine.  I realize that the structural effects of an extraction seem more likely to be lasting than the system effects of an anesthetic.  So, like I say, you could well be right about that. 

*She had had bad "headaches" before, but they hadn't reached CH-terrible levels.  Hadn't even seen a doctor about them.  After that, they were bad.

Glad you have it (relatively) under control.  If your sumatriptan is injectable, you might consider this advice for splitting injections so you use less but still get fully effective aborts: https://clusterbusters.org/forums/topic/2446-extending-imitrex/

And you might also consider the vitamin D3 regimen that has helped many: http://www.vitamindwiki.com/tiki-download_wiki_attachment.php?attId=7708

 

[HazBaz]

I had 4 teeth removed (including 2 wisdom teeth) because of misdiagnosis of CH as tooth rot. My CH started before that, and I’d had no dental work on that side before that point. Seen more dentists in my life than any other healthcare professional. Got a checkup this afternoon actually!

Edited August 31, 2018 by HazBaz

[jon019]

Totally out of left field but be SURE to mention to your dentist if you are taking Fosamax (alendronate) for osteoporosis/osteopenia....it is RARE but he/she should know because one potential side effect is jaw necrosis...which sounds a whole lot like NICO....may want to discuss discontinuation or different med prior to major dental work....or at least close monitoring....

...had my wisdom teeth out at 19....CH started at 26...TOOTH pain ONLY for a year....dentist (prince of a man) REFUSED to pull what was, quote,  "a perfectly good tooth"...so he researched and HE was the one who diagnosed CH (ahead of 3-4 PCP's)…………..

[Tim Flanigan]

I was discharged from the Navy for having a sever malcalusion crooked teeth  6 years later I developed CH. After suffering for 30 years I went to a ortho surgeon and had all my teeth pulled and got dentures. Now I have CH with denture's. I did find a way to help and that was with MM. Found this out at last year's Cluster Buster's Conference. Saved my life