COVID and CH

[Tim Hogge]

I've been in remission for about 4 years.  I recently had Covid that was mild but about 2 weeks later (presently) I've been experiencing shadows, twinges and full blown episodes.  However, my CH are about a 50% pain scale than before.  I'm in the military and applied for medical and religious waivers for exceptions because I terrified the vaxx would trigger a CH season.  And of course there was no data on that but I can't take chances with my military service and CH.  This current CH period had me curious if any studies had been conducted yet and there was only one.  A weak one but interesting.  I have attached the link.  Has any in a remission period experience this after the shot or covid?  Because for me, it's the only difference in my habits.

 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35833226/

[BoscoPiko]

I would think that Covid possibly depleted your D levels and opened the door for the cluster bunny. There have been a few reports of attacks after contracting Covid and I think one or two after the vax. I would bolster up your system with the D3 regimen and since you were recently sick maybe do a loading session first.  

[JY05]

Searching the forums I found that a lot of people don't see a correlation between covid and clusters. The neurologist I saw recently said they've had a lot of patients come in after getting covid and complaining of severe migraine and cluster cycles. From my own experience, I also think covid caused my current cycle. I was clear for 5 years from what I believe was because of taking vit L. I got covid in Apr and since May have had the worst cycle to date. In previous cycles they would be clockwork and hit maybe once or twice a day. This time I had 3 weeks of attacks with up to 5-6 attacks a day. Since then I've felt shadow, ice pick, and general achiness in my head with no days of complete relief despite vit L doses every 5-7 days since May.

It seems like everyones experience is different, but since covid does effect the brain via loss of taste and smell, I'm afraid it also my be triggering worse headache conditions for some people.

Let me know how your cycle goes.

[Bejeeber]

This report, besides being disturbing, is definitely intriguing and useful, including the neurologist's mention of the observed uptick, as attempts are made to parse what the bleep is up with COVID/CH correlation.

Thanks for going on record with it @JY05, and here's hoping you can get to that point of complete relief ASAP!

 

[BoscoPiko]

These were the few threads that I was speaking about in my first response to this thread. I honestly do not think that it is just COVID that can cause an onset of CH, but more so any illness that depletes your system. Both my husband and I had COVID a while back and it did not trigger a cycle for me. I am uncertain if that is due to the fact that I had been on the D3 regimen for quite some time prior to contracting it so maybe my levels did not get depleted as badly and I got through it in about five days. My husband was another story. He is not good about taking supplements (unless I serve them to him) and no he is not a cluster head but he was down for nearly 2-weeks with terrible headaches, fever and body aches.  All this is just my opinion and we all know what that counts for 

[Tim Hogge]

I tell you what.  I wish there was more data than this but my experience is unbelievably similar.  I firmly believe that my ECH came back because of covid and have been milder than before based on my prevention tactics.  Thanks for collecting the posts.  There was so much info in there.  

[spiny]

Here's one add to the above posts. When you get COVID, they give you, drum roll - vitamin D in large doses! For good reason too. So, it makes sense to be loaded up on D during this time with that virus still floating around. This is demonstrated by Bosco's shorter downtime/milder case of COVID than what her husband had. 

I follow the initial D3 Regimen: https://vitamindwiki.com/tiki-download_wiki_attachment.php?attId=7708 It is simple and easy to get the vitamins and take them. A blood test is a good idea before you start, but not absolutely needed. You can order one for your D yourself. If it is below 80ng/ml, you will benefit from the D3.  Chers appear to require the D to be in the 80 to 100 range to be pain free in many cases. You can add Melatonin (up to 25mg/night) or Benadryl at night to help with any nocturnal hits too. The upshot is that the regimen will lower the pain level and slow the ramp-up for you. For many, it ends a cycle and prevents another. Not all respond to it strongly enough to be pain free, but it appears that most CHers will benefit from taking the supplements by getting lower level hits and slowed down ramp-up. Those can be quite valuable by themselves. 

[Pebblesthecorgi]

It is not surprising that anything raising general body inflammation could potentially trigger or exacerbate a cycle.  Vaccines work by triggering an immune response to produce antibodies which activate when the harmful antigen (in this case the covid spike protein) intrudes.  Personally some of my worst attacks were in conjunction with systemic infection.

This of course creates a bigger dilemma; to vax or not to vax?  For the purposes of this post I’m not on either side and firmly believe this is a personal decision.  If in fact vaccination can trigger an attack or even a cycle that sucks but is not surprising.  The subsequent issue is what happens to you if you get covid after getting vaccination vs forgoing vaccination?  By now its pretty clear contracting one form of covid vaccinated or not is inevitable but we still don’t have a clear picture of the consequences of “long covid” in the context of vaccination.

 

From a cardiac perspective, vaccination has a very small but real chance of inducing a cardiomyopathy or pericarditis (inflammation of the heart muscle or sac around the heart).  Some folks use this info to not get vaccinated.  The problem is if you are not vaccinated and contract covid your chances of getting myocarditis or pericarditis is much higher and it is more difficult to resolve.  Same for “long covid”, it seems unvaccinated folks have a much higher incidence of “brain fog”, fatigue and systemic illness than their vaccinated counterparts.

Extrapolating it seems reasonable to speculate that covid could trigger clusters worse than the vaccine and have a longer effect in the unvaccinated.  This makes it imperative to do one’s best to take precautions vaccinated or not to minimize exposure to covid and inflammation in general.  There are no easy answers for this and I doubt we will ever have a definative answer; especially one we will all agree on.

[xBoss]

I gave my opinion last year when I had the worst cycle of my life after the shots. Might have just been a coincidence but it was terrible.

[snafu]

just got over the infection a 2nd time. first one was in 2020 where i actually got long covid (lasted for 8 months)

from my perspective:

2020: infected in october; cluster during jan./feb. was a bitch to bust, took 7 trips with strong lsd to kick it and had intense shadows for 2 additional months, not "normal" for me

2022: infected end of july and am having some weird activity on my cluster side: pain in jaw, temple, eyebrow and neck/shoulderblade plus migrainelike headaches that don't respond to anything, i just have to ride them out.

 

so in my case there is a correlation. causation i don't know.

 

but: since the infection is inflammation and it's inflammation we try to manage with batch's protocol it make sense that covid can cause headaches, clusters, migraines in people who already suffer from those diseases and are prone to them

 

i reacted this time by taking lsd as soon as i was feeling well enough (this saturday) and by immediately upping my d3 to 60.000 units per day (planning on doing it for a week) and also upping things like vitamin c, zink and tumeric

 

so far so good

still getting activity but nothing that actually worries me.

 

i am triple vaxxed: none of the vaxxes resulted in a cluster episode 

 

hope this info helps even if only anecdotal.

 

edit: i also wanted to mention that my high d3 did not prevent the covid infection. i have been on the protocol for years now and it saddens me to say that even with that much d3 in our body we are not safer in any way.

 

take care

[Bejeeber]

Thanks for the report snafu, and glad to see you are so on it with the preventives for this otherwise threatening cycle.

[Darkwing45]

Hi all,

I am curious if other CH sufferers had a hard time with the covid vaccine, specifically Moderna.  First vaccine I was down hard for 10 days, the second for a month.  In my explorations this duration happens in less than 5% of typical reaction of the general population.  I hadn't considered if this was related to CH, but maybe?

[Darkwing45]

2 minutes ago, Darkwing45 said:

Hi all,

I am curious if other CH sufferers had a hard time with the covid vaccine, specifically Moderna.  First vaccine I was down hard for 10 days, the second for a month.  In my explorations this duration happens in less than 5% of typical reaction of the general population.  I hadn't considered if this was related to CH, but maybe?

BTW, I did not experience a CH episode during these times.

[xxx]

Fauci Resigns

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/fauci-step-down-president-bidens-chief-medical-adviser-2022-08-22/

It's going to take some time to prove, but the COVID-19 Coronavirus and mRNA biologic jabs are contributors to CH.

Take care and make it a good day.

V/R, Batch

[snafu]

12 hours ago, xxx said:

COVID-19 Coronavirus and mRNA biologic jabs are contributors to CH.

Hi @xxx, even though i religiously follow the vitamin d3 protocol (20.000 units a day) i still caught the china flu twice. any tip on how to prevent that from happening again? i always take all the co-factors and lead a healthy and active lifestyle.

thanks

 

[xxx]

Hey Snafu,

Great question.  For starters, the Wuhan Corona virus is now endemic in the population like influenza.  As coronavirus mutate rapidly, it's very likely healthy innate and adaptive immune systems will neutralize one mutant variant and develop the specific antibodies for that strain.  However, the next mutant variant may be sufficiently different in its genetic makeup to avoid detection by the antibodies developed for the previous variant and this results in yet another infection.  This is likely what you're experiencing.

There's an excellent 2019 gene activation study by Dr Holick and colleagues.   This a landmark study as it shows a significant dose response in gene activation in 3 groups of healthy volunteers who took varying amounts of vitamin D daily for 6 months. The doses used in the 3 groups were 600, 4000, and 10,000 units a day.  https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-53864-1.

"There was a dose-dependent 25(OH)D alteration in broad gene expression with 162, 320 and 1289 genes up- or down-regulated in their white blood cells (our immune systems), respectively.”  This is great science. It makes me wonder how many genes would have been activated with 20,000, 30,000 units or more a day of vitamin D3 for 6 months.

I don't have the gene activation counts for vitamin D3 doses of 20,000 to 30,000 IU/day or higher, but I do have first hand end results.  Over the last 30 months, I've averaged a vitamin D3 dose around 30,000 IU/day with a few weeks as high as 80,000 IU/day to remain CH pain free during periods of high pollen and mold spore counts.  This much vitamin D3 elevated my serum 25(OH)D3 concentration up to around 150 ng/mL (375 nmol/L) and at a couple points, as high as 270 ng/mL (675 nmol/L).  The net results were clear.  I remained CH pain free and I also remained asymptomatic to Wuhan Coronavirus infections by the alpha through omicron 2 and 3 mutant variant exposures.

This doesn't mean I wasn't infected.   What was likely happening was my innate immune system's killer T-Cells were activated beating back the coronavirus infection and stopping viral replication before it reached the point of emerging symptoms (sore throat, temperature, malaise, etc.).  There's a great chart by Dr. Paul Marik, MD, Chief of Pulmonary and Critical Care Medicine, Eastern Virginia Medical School, Norfolk, VA, illustrating the time line from inoculation by the Wuhan Coronavirus.

As you can see, viral incubation and replication can be in progress with an innate immune system, naive to a new viral strain and not boosted by vitamin D3, for up to five days before symptoms present/become evident.  In my case, its likely my T-Cell activation has been occurring within a couple days of inoculation by a new Wuhan Coronavirus variant.

Since the Wuhan Coronavirus landed in the US, I've also taken larger doses of vitamin C (8 grams/day in divided doses) as an antiviral supplement.  Zinc has been part of the anti-inflammatory regimen and treatment protocol since I developed it in 2010.  I added Quercetin in April of 2020.  Quercetin is a zinc ionophore that enables water soluble zinc ions to pass through the fatty acids that make up cell membranes to stop viral replication.   Had Ivermectin been available, I would have taken it as a prophylaxis.  Accordingly, the message here should be clear.  Higher vitamin D3 doses resulting in an elevated 25(OH)D3 serum concentration around 150 ng/mL, coupled with vitamin C, zinc and Quercetin have enabled my innate and adaptive immune systems to keep me asymptomatic to Wuhan Coronavirus infections.

The bottom line, see your PCP for assays of my serum 25(OH)D3, calcium and PTH.    As long as your calcium serum concentration is within its normal reference range, I would load vitamin D3 for 6 days at 100,000 IU/day (2.5 mg/day) then drop back to a maintenance dose at least 5000 IU/day higher than usual.  Test again in two weeks with assays for serum 25(OH)D3, calcium and PTH.  You're looking for an initial target 25(OH)D3 serum concentration around 150 ng/mL (375 nmol/L) without going bust on serum calcium concentration too high or PTH serum concentration too low.

In my opinion, for what it's worth, this is a prudent course of action for CHers who have had one or more COVID-19 mRNA vaccinations.  There is sufficient evidence from properly structured, peer reviewed RCTs that each mRNA vaccination results in progressively weaker immune systems as evidenced by significant increases in diseases and medical conditions normally kept in check by healthy immune systems.

Take care and please keep us posted.

V/R, Batch

 

[snafu]

8 hours ago, xxx said:

Higher vitamin D3 doses resulting in an elevated 25(OH)D3 serum concentration around 150 ng/mL, coupled with vitamin C, zinc and Quercetin have enabled my innate and adaptive immune systems to keep me asymptomatic to Wuhan Coronavirus infections.

as always thanks for your thorough reply!

 

8 hours ago, xxx said:

There is sufficient evidence from properly structured, peer reviewed RCTs that each mRNA vaccination results in progressively weaker immune systems as evidenced by significant increases in diseases and medical conditions normally kept in check by healthy immune systems.

i was thinking the same thing. i am triple vaxxed (my government forced us to be, by excluding unvaxxed people from everyday life, so i really had no choice) and still caught it a 2nd time...i will add more vitamin c to the mix and see what the future holds. 

again @xxx thank you for the information you provide!

 

greets

[xxx]

Snafu,

I'm just a 78 year old retired Navy fighter pilot so I need to keep the concept of detoxing from the COVID-19 mRNA biologics simple enough to get my head around it.  There's more than enough medical evidence from several studies linking the mRNA biologics to injuries of the innate and adaptive immune systems.  Accordingly, it appears taking nutritional supplements that boost immune system (white blood cell) functions is a prudent course of action.

If you look at the available COVID-19 mRNA vaccine detox protocols, you'll see most include vitamin C, vitamin D3 and its cofactors.  To my way of thinking, that makes the anti-inflammatory regimen and treatment protocol a good choice as an mRNA biologic detox.  The really exciting data from Dr. Michael Holick's study is the vitamin D3 dose dependency in gene expression among the immune system's white blood cells. 

Basically, more is better when it comes to the vitamin D3 dose as higher doses increase the number of genes activated.  The only caveat is we need to keep the serum calcium concentration within its normal reference range and not depress the PTH concentration below its low normal level.  This requires 2.5 liters of water a day, avoidance of high calcium foods like all dairy products and frequent assays for serum 25(OH)D3, calcium and PTH. 

The next question is how much vitamin D3 is enough?  The answer, based on my experience over the last three years, is the dose that elevates serum 25(OH)D3 up to around 150 ng/mL.  There's no single answer so the basic approach is load and test.  After that, the best indication of efficacy is an absence of viral infections.  That can take months or longer.

Take care and please keep us posted.

V/R, Batch

[sparklegirl]

On 7/25/2022 at 9:28 AM, Tim Hogge said:

I've been in remission for about 4 years.  I recently had Covid that was mild but about 2 weeks later (presently) I've been experiencing shadows, twinges and full blown episodes.  However, my CH are about a 50% pain scale than before.  I'm in the military and applied for medical and religious waivers for exceptions because I terrified the vaxx would trigger a CH season.  And of course there was no data on that but I can't take chances with my military service and CH.  This current CH period had me curious if any studies had been conducted yet and there was only one.  A weak one but interesting.  I have attached the link.  Has any in a remission period experience this after the shot or covid?  Because for me, it's the only difference in my habits.

 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35833226/

I have also been in remission for 4 years and then contracted Covid in June and am now in the beginning of a cycle. It has started out mild, similar to what you describe. I had no issues with the vax or the the booster. 

[Clusterben]

Hi there,

I'm also currently in a bad cycle. I had covid twice and shortly after the second infection, i developed a full scale cluster of up to 8 Attacks/day at maximum pain level.

By now the quality of the attacks got much better due to the use of Cannabis, but attacks come still in a high frequency...

[BoscoPiko]

19 hours ago, sparklegirl said:

I have also been in remission for 4 years and then contracted Covid in June and am now in the beginning of a cycle. It has started out mild, similar to what you describe. I had no issues with the vax or the the booster. 

Hi Sparklergirl,

Did you have COVID prior to the vax or just after? I'm just curious because if you did not have it prior then it could be possible that the vax weakened your immune system making you actually more susceptible. I know it's nuts to think that a vaccine meant to prevent and protect us could backfire in such a way Anyway I hope your cycle ends sooner than later!  

[sparklegirl]

On 8/27/2022 at 1:53 PM, BoscoPiko said:

Hi Sparklergirl,

Did you have COVID prior to the vax or just after? I'm just curious because if you did not have it prior then it could be possible that the vax weakened your immune system making you actually more susceptible. I know it's nuts to think that a vaccine meant to prevent and protect us could backfire in such a way Anyway I hope your cycle ends sooner than later!  

I had COVID in June long after the initial vax (J&J) and booster (which I got in the first round last Fall). Since getting COVID I’ve had a bunch of weird immune response issues, one of which is CH. My take on it based on my experience is that it was COVID that really screwed things up because I had no issues with the vax whatsoever. Either way, here I am fighting this monster again. Thanks for the well wishes. May we all be pain free forever!

[BoscoPiko]

42 minutes ago, sparklegirl said:

I had COVID in June long after the initial vax (J&J) and booster (which I got in the first round last Fall). Since getting COVID I’ve had a bunch of weird immune response issues, one of which is CH. My take on it based on my experience is that it was COVID that really screwed things up because I had no issues with the vax whatsoever. Either way, here I am fighting this monster again. Thanks for the well wishes. May we all be pain free forever!

Thank you for the reply and yea I have read enough posts on here to somewhat conclude that COVID somehow (either by depleting the system or just beating the body up) seems to open the door to CH. 

[Darren]

I had COVID at the end of May, and about 1-2 weeks after shaking it, my current cluster cycle started. And I'm still trying to break out of this cycle. They normally only last about a month with me. Over 2.5 months now, and still going strong.

 

No issues after any of my three vaccines. 

[sparklegirl]

On 9/3/2022 at 7:18 PM, Darren said:

I had COVID at the end of May, and about 1-2 weeks after shaking it, my current cluster cycle started. And I'm still trying to break out of this cycle. They normally only last about a month with me. Over 2.5 months now, and still going strong.

 

No issues after any of my three vaccines. 

Wondering if the new booster would have a negative or positive effect. I remember hearing that the booster and vaccine helped those experiencing long Covid. My cycle usually lasts about a month and I’m on week 4. Last night was brutal but this cycle has not been nearly as severe in terms of pain but I seem to get many more attacks than normal. Hoping I’m nearing the finish line. Hope you are too.