jon019

...yeah, would seem any placebo in this type of study would have to have some kind of psychoactive effect...and recruitment would have to defer to "inexperienced users" who would not be able to discern "type". have experienced the niacin effect...rather unpleasant but no psychoactivity....

...hi Kat...can't speak to the effectiveness of amovig or it's effect on busting, but have been in clinical trials for another condition .. ....if you can work it around a busting schedule, or are willing to pause busting if need be, i would strongly encourage participation for the following reasons: ....#1...with a bullet...it might work! ...if it doesn't work, you have identified yourself as a potentially willing trial participant, for a defined condition, and they already have all of your pertinent personal data. recruiting for trials is a tedious, difficult, expensive undertaking....making participants a valued "commodity". once you are in the system, your chances for future opportunities goes way up. (added note, another one of the reasons i always encourage finding a HA specialist...they have knowledge of/access to trials...) ....Pebbles is absolutely correct...and the cost:benefit ratio may not work....but trials are ridiculously expensive and the sponsors motivation can be to your benefit...sometimes free, sometimes at reduced rate/couponed, sometimes you get access to meds that others don't (primary and adjuncts)... ....for the same reasons (trial sponsor cost/efforts/rewards in money and treatment successes) trial patients are treasured and (at least in my case) get boutique level care....with a care coordinator. means immediate access to docs and appointments and referrals and lab/procedure results and and and. careful, it might spoil ya to the regular assembly line..... ....trials are no guarantee of any better result than "standard of care"....that was the case for me. however, the information obtained is priceless to researchers/providers...finding out what doesn't work can be just as important as what does. the information obtained can be used to direct/redirect future efforts.....and the knowledge that you might be helping someone else down the line can be REALLY rewarding..... best jonathan

...point taken devonrex..... your situation breaks my heart and i mean no disrespect.....there are no absolutes for clusterheads.... ....sometimes the decades of frustration with the medical community and insurance companies that have failed us through indifference and ignorance gets to me.... i find it especially hurtful when some of the tools that help so many are unknown, misused.... or thrown at us in a useless manner.....and an opportunity to save so much anguish is lost...

...good morning Erica...welcome! ...yeah, thanks Ma for sure...diagnosing CH in an adult is a crap shoot..it would seem to be even moreso for a child.... ....you don't mention OXYGEN.....considered the best abortive and NO side effects, especially heart wise. any experience there? wouldn't need the other meds.... ...careful with the Excedrin....some folks find it helps with shadows (naproxen does for me) but is useless for a regular hit, nasty potential stomach side effects and additive to any blood thinners you may be on. methinks the caffeine is the key ..... best jonathan edited to add...i see i posted same time as CHf...unintentionally redundant....but obviously i agree

......been doing some form of this dance for near 40 yrs now, and it continues to break my fricken heart that the absolutely true above has changed so little....especially so for O2 ...the best, highest success rate, safest, cheapest abortive.... ...it is to sigh.... and one of the many reasons for ch.com, cb.org, et al. i am forever grateful for the clusterheads and their supporters who DO understand.... and reach out to others in the "family".....if we aren't our own best advocates sometimes it seems we got nothing.....

...dang drewbie...this sounds like a mess...sorry to hear...just a few thoughts... ....O2 worked for me "most" of the time... and while there were times when i felt like i was experiencing an O2 rebound, it was thankfully rare. my hindsight belief it was having to do with an allergic reaction or system inflammation of some kind... which precipitated the hit and remained active irrespective of the O2 working on the hit at hand.... ...if this is an allergy mediated...a course of benadryl (diphenhydamine) might be in order ...somewhere between 25-100 mg/dy for 7-10 days...worth a try, just be aware of drowsiness effect. if an inflammation, a course of prednisone or methylprednisolone may be in order ...normally i hit O2 at FIRST sign of a hit (plus an energy drink)...and advise same for all....but for reasons I totally do not understand there were cycles where it became quickly evident that either O2 no longer worked, or the hits just kept coming back, UNLESS i waited til the hit got to a level 2 (one notch beyond a shadow for me). scary stuff, but it was frigging amazing as the the O2 would then work just fine.... ...i know this is difficult to contemplate but, as bad as CH is, there is no guarantee clusterheads don't have another form of HA. when i hear that O2 AND imi are not working....tells me might be something other than CH going on....worth a consult with your ha specialist... ...i completely understand the "letting a hit play out"....been there too. one of the reasons i've alway felt the beast is an entity with evil intent is that sometimes just seems "it" must be placated. am sure there's a physiological explanation, but................ best jonathan

hi Amos...welcome! ...well...yikes...i can't imagine you DON'T have rebounds...so i'll ask first: have you tried/considered alternating different triptan like Zomig nasal spray (separated by 24 hrs)....effective for some.. ....OXYGEN ??!!...if you've tried we need to know how (source/flow/mask/technique)?...life changing in my case.... ....how about the D3 regimen.....cheap, easy, beneficial beyond ch, high success rate...eliminates the other meds... ...then, of course, there is busting..... best jonathan

oxygen info Clusterheadaches.com NEW Message Board

welcome dave....OXYGEN?

Episodic ch......Chronic ch....

......seeds, spores, grow kits....not L or M....

....took me 8.....keep looking....they be out there......

...it was the rare cycle when i DID have night/sleep hits...enough of an anomaly that in hindsight there must have been something else going on...like allergies, illness, inflammation.... ...a doc who would say night hits are a determinative symptom in ch diagnosis would also say "women don't get ch".... ...find a new doc.....

MERRY CHRISTMAS 2020!

...when i was young and poor and tormented by the fools at the so called health insurance companies, i dreamed of one day being able to afford a "demand valve" which were (and are?) hundreds of dollars...i got along without....but this woulda been nice..... .....am reminded of the $500 Texas Instrument scientific calculator, big and heavy as a brick, i used to make special trips to the store to drool over with the same "some day" thoughts....now they give those away.. ....nicely done Snowflake...a very practical real world solution.....

.....excessive use of caffeine (and i would suspect that "excessive" is user dependent) is a known cause of rebounds..... .....inconsistent use is a known cause of headache (that i know not the proper term for)....consider the well reported "weekend headache" where the worker drone abstains or greatly reduces typical weekday consumption...and the body cries out and objects to lack of the normal with a "reminder" headache.... ....personal....anecdotal...talkin about me.....over years of dancing with the devil practice.....I found that abstaining from caffeine at ALL times, other than when hit, resulted in fewer hits and improved efficacy when used FOR a hit. the body is a marvel at maintaining stasis...it'll get used to and regulate for all kinds of differing factors. if one regularly ingests caffeine there becomes an amount that is "normal" and effects are dampened.....abstaining and then introducing a large bolus of caffeine as an abortive at least temporarily overwhelms the dampening effect, and the desired vasoconstriction aids in CH suppression (always hit the O2 concurrently, if possible). works for me.....YMMV ....triple strength, HOT coffee used to be my go to...a little inconvenient and hard to get down but effective. energy drinks, kept really cold and pounded FAST became an effective replacement, i think the additional ingredients (taurine, et al?) improved effect...but DAYUM what an awful taste, and SO MUCH sugar or the dreaded trigger, aspartame. the 2 oz 5-hr energy types became my go to.....LOTS of caffeine+, minimal sugar, and easily carried everywhere............ best jonathan

...throw in an energy drink or strong caffeine drink slammed at first sign of hit.....with a box of zomig ns (5 mg) back for abort of last resort and you are golden.... ...D3 and or 'shrooms may make the above moot....

...hi Snowflake.... ....many meds have completely different effects the first time (few times/weeks?) compared to what is achieved ongoing. or, once efficacy achieved, there may still be the "slap backs" we are all familiar with. i would caution not to make a final decision on ketamine based on one experience...especially one where you were prepared and able to abort so quickly (in my mind, what's one more hit aborted out of thousands)... ...you know your body best so these are just thoughts....but i would consider myself fortunate to have the option of trying ketamine in what sounds like an ideal setting...it was never an option for me and many... best jonathan

you're making me nuts spud....ONE abort with O2 will make it a worthwhile "get" and probably eliminate the need for most if not all the meds you've tried/trying.....i can still cry at the memory of the first hit being aborted like water down a drain.... and that was almost 40 yrs ago.... ...imagine doing that with O2...it's about a thousand times more effective... ....used to happen to me....had the O2 tank set up next to bed ...everything ready to go...slap the mask on and crank the valve....3-5 mins later back to sleep. keys: rig ready, train yourself to wake upon hit (it's hard but doable), keep lights off/eyes closed, activity minimal, no angst/anger/adrenaline, try not to fully wake....no thoughts...just breath..... ...yes...do the D3....and water is good best jonathan

...i feel like me and my boy Sherman have entered the "wayback machine"....since i thought this has been general knowledge for decades!? nothing new but a short read. liking the part where they say will spur additional research (ANY research into ch is good research)....but more specifically, if lesser dosages are of sufficient efficacy so as to minimize the well known negative and severe potential side effects of over and/or extended use.... mr. peabody 'Clear Evidence' Oral Steroid Effective for 'Suicide Headache' (medscape.com)

...we understand frustration.....

hi...welcome... ...not necessarily to defend "old man doctors", but i am part of that phrase and i feel like pointing out that MIS-diagnosing young/female clusterheads is just a quick and easy out for them on a LONG list of reasons for missed diagnoses ....all ages, genders and types of docs. few are trained/ know/learn squat about CH. i present as a classic case of CH...both symptom and stereotype.... and still went undiagnosed for years...most of us, sadly, have the same story (i think it's an avg of 3-5 yrs)..... ...be your own best advocate, if you can't find the right ha doc, at least find a doc who is open to learning ...if need be, from you! .....we can help.. best jonathan .

...hi Jennifer....welcome...glad ya found us... ....frequent inexplicable metallic taste in or out of cycle that seemed unconnected to anything (except possibly teeth grinding)..never concerned me, just figured "part of the deal"... ...also...phantom odors....locker room, mold, toast, manure, several more....and an overall enhanced odor detecting facility....since i made my living with my nose it was one of the very few non negative aspects of CH for me. of course, like many other clusterheads, certain odors were a surefire trigger...like zinc welding fumes, some perfumes, and some other strong ones. since CH is a neurological condition, it is not surprising to me as part of CH ....or separate but due to the same etiology...or completely unrelated and coincidental. never discussed with a neuro, haven't seen in the lit beyond the triggering aspect... best jonathan

DD...thank you for your continued posting of these various studies...always fascinating reads and encouraging that there are folks out there like Dr. Schindler who are in the "give a damn" category...because it sure aint for the money....and makes me feel less like an orphan... ....also always cause for a rueful reflection on the short sighted, narrow minded, prejudices that cost us decades of research time, effort, and funding that would have saved a whole lotta folks a whole lotta agony.....

....agreed with everything Pebbles said...doubles or triples supply therefore lowering cost, side effects and rebounds. the tiny insulin needles are less scary (tho not to everybody) and painful compared to the stat dose....and if prefilled, just as convenient (i used to carry such in a stat dose sleeve). until i found zomig ns to be superior in all aspects (save price) this was my last resort abort... ....insurance companies should actually be pushing these for all the above reasons.... but seem ignorant of the product in multiple ways...which is bizarre since the money aspect alone seems to be their driving force ( i long ago abandoned any illusion that concern for patient care/well being was involved in any of their decisions). where i used to get them (costco), the pharm was as perplexed as me... "same drug, same total dose, same price...what's the problem?" ....availability and knowledge of supply has always been puzzling to me....on every CH forum i've ever been on can be found stories of clusterheads being told by docs, pharms, ins companies: these "don't exist, can't be found, not made anymore, or what's that?".... so once again i do an internet search and can find it every time. maybe not conveniently, but were it me, i'd dog hunt it down....