Thots from a Buster

[FunGuy]

Good day all.  I think we've gotten a bit off track on our message board recently and as Admin one of my tasks it too keep us on track.

First, let me remind us all of the mission statement of Cluster Busters:  Clusterbusters is dedicated to researching treatments that show promise for reliable, effective and long term relief, from cluster and related headaches.

We will continue to search for other alternatives that work for people either as treatments or as compliments to psychedelic treatments. When we are satisfied that they do work and do so without causing more harm than good, we will continue to add them to our FAQs as viable options.

One thing that Clusterbusters has tried to eliminate from "standard" cluster treatments by the conventional medical community (doctors and pharmaceutical companies) is the practice of throwing everything out there as an option. Try this then try that if (when) it doesn't work.

As of this date, we know of nothing that we consider worth using and putting off trying the psychedelic treatments. If anyone is thinking that we have something against anything that isn't psychedelic in nature, if that was the case, we wouldn't be so excited about BOL and so involved in it's future availability to all cluster sufferers.

Our focus has been on any and all forms of treatment and specifically on the use of hallucinogenic compounds and their derivatives.  Cluster Busters was built on this and I do believe these compounds are still the safest, easiest and most effective treatment available today.  And they are available TODAY.

People come to our message board from a variety of places, many from ch.com.  Our message board exists because of the generosity of ch.com (thanks DJ).

Yet I'm concerned what happens when they get here.

I watched several times as a person registers on ch.com  and relates either

a) their direct request for information on busting or

how their previous use of hallucinogenic compounds that had unknowingly put them into a lengthy remission. 

Usually within a couple of days someone there will suggest they register at our message board for more discussion on this.  So they do and ask some specific questions on LSA seeds, psilo or whatever.  Care to guess what happens after they asked??

Yes, they will get a link to general busting, sometimes to specific sections in the files, then the conversation turns to alternative methods.

Why?  Why do we take people who come to us for information about busting and turn their thread into a conversations of other alternatives?

Why?  Especially when I do believe these compounds are still the safest, easiest and most effective treatment available today.  And they are available TODAY.

PLEASE NOTE:  THIS IS NOT A CRITIQUE OF ANYONE.

I have no problem with referrals to other ideas.  I encourage the referral on medication issues and certainly on oxygen use.

I do have a problem with the constant referral to other alternatives.  That is NOT the purpose of the board, we are here to discuss what works best for the treatment of cluster headache.  Isn't that why they came to our board in the first place, for this information?

And guess what?  We have the best treatment and in my opinion it is what we should be talking about.

Do the alternatives have a place in the treatment of cluster headache?  Certainly.

Yet I've spent too many years and too much of my own time, money and effort into helping to bring this treatment to everyone. I've flown to too many places, talked to too many researchers and scientists and listened to so many of you (those with CH) thank me for helping you learn to control, manage and even overcome your headaches.

I will not see this board turned into a discussion place for alternatives that have little to no proof or demonstrable (published) data.

Now before you flip off on that, at least we've got several published papers and more data than any other anecdotal program, regimen or "cure" out there. 

That's what we've spent those years and dollars doing folks.

That's why we've got thousands of people telling us how well these substances work.

So please, don't dilute what we do here on this board with anything other than that.

To those of you that have been her for a while, first let me thank you.  :-)

I bet most of you (dare I say all of you) came here in desperation, seeking a means to control your clusters.  Most of you found it here.

Aren't you glad when you did first come here (or the old yahoo board) that what you received was wise, prudent and thoughtful advise on the use of hallucinogenic compounds and their derivatives to treat your clusters?  Would you have stuck around if we had sent you off for something other than that?

This board has been up and running for almost 2 years and it has been nothing short of amazing.  Remember folks, there are a lot more people around than just those posting (on the open sections).

We're doing wonderful things, what we do best.  Helping people overcome their clusters with these effective compounds.

That's my thots.    I invite yours.

This board will carry on where you, the posters, want it to go.

Where do YOU want it to go??

FunGuy

(and quit calling me Bob.  I am not Bob!)  :-)

[TobyK]

I'm a newbie and this site was the reason that I decided to bust with shrooms. I did not want to go on meds again and had no idea about hellucinagenics doing the trick. Also, I would have tripped my balls off unless I read about your methods here. I do the D3 regiment also, but I read about that on CH.com.

Thanks Bob. I mean FunGuy.

[nani]

I dunno, Bob...I get what you're saying, but if it weren't for discussion of alternatives in the first place, there would be no Clusterbusters. We have no published data on waterx3, or kudzu, or O2 with demand valves (that I know of anyway), but they can be effective for some. Just sayin'...

Last time I was really involved in CB (I know, I'm sorry that I've had to back off a bit), kudzu was considered a buster treatment, in that it was alternative, had some anecdotal evidence of effectiveness, and data was in the early stages of being gathered by Andrew.

All that said, I still think the traditional buster methods are the best and most effective. For me, anyway.

Love you guys...

[CHfather]

Not-Bob  , can you point to a thread or threads that illustrate what you are discussing here?  I've read virtually every post at this board since I came here, and I can't think of anyone who came for busting advice, or even came not looking for busting advice, who didn't get offered busting advice.  (If you think referring them to the very clear busting advice in the Clusterbuster Files is not busting advice, then I guess I just disagree with you about that -- but in most cases that is just a predecessor to further discussions anyway.)

At the same time, the plain fact is that many people looking for busting advice here, or looking for general advice, are not ready to bust yet because they're not detoxed from meds that interfere with busting.  Oxygen is of course vital for that, and yet we have person after person after person saying their docs won't prescribe O2 and/or they don't believe they can afford either prescribed O2 or welding O2.  Those people are strongly advised, and often guided very specifically, toward getting O2.

The best other alternatives I know of to potentially help people tolerate getting off the busting-blocking meds without (or with ) O2 seem to be licorice root (which is also limited by undesirable interactions with some meds) and the D3 regimen, which in my opinion has enough anecdotal support here and at ch.com to be worth recommending. 

So when you say >>please, don't dilute what we do here on this board with anything other than [busting information]<<, are you saying we should just tell people to quit their meds cold turkey for five days when there are "alternatives" that just might make that a lot easier for them, particularly if they don't have/can't get O2?  Would you say to them that, yes, there are probably ways to make detoxing easier but they'll have to look somewhere else for them?  (i would gladly just refer people to the D3 thread at ch.com if it weren't so convoluted and the simple prescription weren't so easy to describe.)

I'll say again that I've read virtually everything that's been posted here for the last nine months, and I can't think of a person who has been, in your words, "sent off" without busting information (not to mention that there's a whole huge board here teeming with busting information if that's what they want).  Is it just that they're not being encouraged to bust as strongly as you think they should be?  I'm assuming that if they try licorice root or D3 and it works for them well enough that, in your words, they "put off" busting treatments, but they know busting is a future option and they'll get help with busting if they ask for it, we don't consider that any kind of failure, do we?

All that said, you and others have created this great place, and if you're troubled by its direction, that's reasonable cause for concern for the rest of us, and I look forward to reading what others have to say (and more of what you have to say, if you're so inclined).

[razorPP]

hummm, I thought this was a place for us to come and learn and lean on each other. I read Ting's poem not to long ago, when it was late in the night and I thought no one was there. I replied to thank Ting and she asked if I was alright. That was all I needed to get me through the night. peace

[Dallas Denny]

All that said, you and others have created this great place, and if you're troubled by its direction, that's reasonable cause for concern for the rest of us, and I look forward to reading what others have to say (and more of what you have to say, if you're so inclined).

I haven't been around clusterbusters as long as BobW and Doug, but I was among a few who got here and became active just as the board went live so I think I qualify as an old timer in that respect.

I think maybe that the community is evolving and the culture has changed as a result?  I don't know if thats ultimately good or bad, but is completely different than it was when I got here!!

We had all the FAQ'a in one location on the home page, and the "mission" of that core group of folks was to educate and help sufferers who had come to a decision to bust, learn how to aquire and use "alt meds", and to  become sufficient in supplying themselves.......when the home page went under reconstruction, alot of that info became "a mess"........then TommyD started his great files, and things became even more muddled because the links in them DON"T work as Tommy stated when he posted them.....they are a work in progress.......I tried to fix that with a post that Doug made a "stickie" of, but I still see folks sending the newbies to  Tommys Clusterbuster files where the info is very hard to find and the links do not work!!!!

My impression is that clusterbusters is becoming an "erowid" of sorts...... I don't know that thats good or bad, but I do agree with Doug in that our message and the direction of the board has changed drastically in the past few months!!!  The focus has been taken off of "busting"!!!!!  All of this other stuff is covered at our sister site, CH.com ( Thanks DJ ), we have a link to CH.com and the O2 page, the vast majority of sufferers and supporters who get here are also members there.......

Dallas Denny

[ThatHurtsMyHead]

Makes sense that we don't want to duplicate the same discussions from CH.com.  Would it be better to direct questions on Licorich, Fish oil, Vit-D, or ther detox methods etc to a single location, and keep the discussions here 'busting' related? 

Oxygen is a tuffy as I personally almost deem that a requirement with busting.  (Any poor soul out there w/o Oxygen I feel sad for)

Jeff

[Psiloscribe]

The dilution FunGuy speaks of is this;

From the beginning we have concentrated on psychedelic treatments. This includes finding ways of making detoxing a little easier. It involved helping people with 02 instructions, etc.

The reason we have mode so much progress over the years has been our collective drive to help others and find better treatments. For the most part though, these refined or different treatments have revolved around, and evolved from, psychedelics.

The reason we discovered LSA was as an offshoot of mushrooms. Someone in the Netherlands could not completely end his cycle with mushrooms, could not find LSD and his wife, a med student, found that Rivea Corymbosa seeds and Hawaiian Baby Woodrose seeds contained something similar to LSD. They tried them first for clusters. They worked. We added an LSA FAQ.

Someone was experiencing anxiety while doing mushrooms and someone else researched the problem and suggested skullcap.

Someone was looking for a way to treat low level hits between doses and others suggested Ginger.

The list goes on and on and all the work done can be found on the FAQs.

The discovery of BOL was based upon trying to refine the psychedelic treatments.

We have made these strides because we have concentrated upon refining the psychedelic treatments. There was never a list of medications that could possibly block the psychedelic treatments. There was a LOT of work involved in finding these things out.

I wonder if the medical community has looked at some of these things as closely as we have. I wonder how many people that have had Imitrex fail for them, were also on either steroids or opiates for unrelated conditions. With all the meds I was on over the years, I never had a doctor mention that one could be blocking the efficacy of another. I now know that to be the case, based upon the work by so many in this group.

Yes, it is a fine line and it may not be clear to discern but the focus of the group does become blurred at times.

We knew that opening up a public board would change things. Those that have been around since the yahoo days can easily see the changes. Message boards ALWAYS evolve. Not always for the better but there are trade offs. The fact that we are now reaching many more people than we had in the past is the most important. If we can do that AND continue to make progress towards better cluster treatments, we will all be happy.

Carry on, we still have a lot of work to do.

Bob

The real one ;-)

P.S. The general support here IS very important. Whether it is a poem or a shoulder to cry upon or a suggestion to try Skullcap. It always HAS been important and always will be. We're all here to help people not only survive this affliction but to improve quality of life. One that everyone deserves.

[Brew]

..others suggested Ginger.

Never - not when you're a Mary Ann guy.

[zenchow]

As a new member to the board, I'll just say I love it no matter how convoluted it gets. I sometimes spend time at CH.com, but I spend time reading this board almost every nite. Everybody is really nice and supportive of one another. The busting info is important...but mostly I think I come here just to remind myself that I am no longer alone. I wouldn't change a thing.

[Ricardo]

I feel like I'm in the land of OZ.  (Might have something to do with the tea....)  Did our moderator just come on here and tell us that we're not talking about psychedelic drugs enough?  That's friggin cool... ;D

[Ricardo]

This might help...

http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/3701092/Psychedelic_Torrent

[ThatHurtsMyHead]

Ricardo,

I have to meet you some day...  ROFL...

Jeff

[Stump BeefKnob]

This might help...

http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/3701092/Psychedelic_Torrent

Thanks for the great link!!

[kaboom]

Reflecting...on how thankful I am for this website and message board.  As I've mentioned before, one of my biggest regrets is that I didn't try psychedelics sooner. I can honestly say that I wish I had known 20 years ago that "getting some A.S.S." would help CH. 

A.S.S.

c h e

i  r e

d o d

   o s

  m

   s

Richardo - I'm wearing my red shoes and strolling the yellow brick road right behind you.  Wait for meeeee!

[physmom]

I came here looking for advice on busting. I knew what clusterbusters was about. I got that advice and also tips on other methods to try while waiting to start psychedelics. I tried them and fantastically they worked! I'm so grateful for someone helping me. It doesn't mean I forgot why I came to clusterbusters in the first place. I'm still reading my way through all the message boards and still have the same intentions I came here with for the next cycle. In fact I'm so convinced by everything I'm reading that I've written to goverment advisors and my MP to ask for this treatment to be legalised. Don't worry, people aren't going to miss the big picture. The impression I have come away with is that psychedelics are the most effective but that other treatments mentioned here are extremely valuable in combination with them. I also think that whenever we find something else that works it offers clues as to what goes on with CH - the brain receptors and chemical processes involved etc. and this is the holy grail. What better for pioneers like clusterbusters than to get the full picture and develop a therapy - most likely based on psychedelics - that is fully understood and offers a guaranteed long term fix?

[Bejeeber]

I get the thing about the big picture here, not advising people to put off trying the psychedelic treatments, etc., I think these are valid concerns. But I'm becoming concerned about an inadvertent, temporary chilling effect that could have real repercussions for new CH'ers/supporters coming here and getting little or no timely advice.

CHfather, you've been the guy lately who's always been there in the trenches, quick to take on any newcomer and guide them through every facet of what they wish or need to find out about, then continually following up with them. I really can't express how much I admire that.

I'm not seeing you around today and it looks to me (over reaction?) like things could be threatening to go to hell a bit at the moment. Today I'm the only one who has responded to JustAddWater in his "Same questions, new guy", topic. Not good. I'm trying, but need some backup with him and the "New to Site...no idea what I'm doing" topic.

This is some serious sh*t that's in danger of neglected in my view, so if we've run CHfather off now - the main guy, the really organized, well researched guy who was doing the most heavy lifting in regards to getting in there and really helping individuals on a case by case basis, how about those members who want to keep the forum focused on  psychedelics going in and picking up some of the slack?

We have people asking about busting and specifically seeds and mushrooms....

[Edit: I see that the angelic DereksGirl has just posted a late night reply to JustAddWater, so I'm not feeling quite as cold and all alone ,  just jonesin' for some CHfather. :'(]

[physmom]

I'm one of those lucky newbies that straight away got all the reassuring help and advice about psychedellics from CHfather and Bejeeber. Awesome job guys!

I wasn't sure about them before I spoke to you both but you convinced me. I'm passing on that info to others.

[Hipshot]

Hello everyone.

I have been away for a while but was made aware of this post.

I have to take Dougs back on this one.

I too have noticed newbies getting advice in licorice tincture every time one jumped on the board. Fish this and vitamin that.....FECK ...I thought to myself.

I'm glad that when I found this board and the great people here, it wasn't convoluted with everything just short of snake oil in my most humble opinion. I have never mentioned it because I felt it was not my place to do so. That's  what moderators do...other than remind me of what kind of soap to use when washing my mouth out. ;D

I appreciate the time people take to try to help complete strangers...so who am I to judge.

This board should stay true to it's roots and promote the use of hallucinogens and oxygen. That's what saved my life and that's what I try to focus on. ...other than Rons bulges from time to time in order to keep things from being so negative. People like me know that sometimes laughter is indeed the best medicine.

Going from suicidal thoughts to cracking a smile is a big swing and my secondary mission I suppose.

cHF...you are the best among us and I always look forward to reading your posts. This has nothing to do with you for damn sure. You always promote the use of both of the things that saved me and your daughter. Nothing but love for you man.

We know what works. Let's all be cool and promote what is tried and true.

I am going on my fourth PF month. From CCH to PF. FekinA

Dan

[Bejeeber]

4 months PF Dan? In a row??  I think the official 2011 Clusterbusting poster boy has just been crowned! [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

[Hipshot]

Hi matt :

My math is bad . The 25th of this month will be FIVE months since my last bust when NatGeo was here. I have had only two or three actual attacks...very random and months apart. I am living proof that mushrooms somehow change brain chemistry or reset my damn hard drive..

I owe my life to the fine people here. No other way to put it. I would not be alive right now...no way...no how.

I was ready to die when I met my angel who gave me my first shrooms. I had absolutely given up after multiple surgeries and all the fecking drugs and supplements.

Each dose got me more and more pain free time. Five months is heaven. I hope and pray that everyone can achieve the same results.

Dan

[Hipshot]

What are you wearing today Kaboom?

[Psiloscribe]

In case those of you that have tried the D3 treatment have missed it, there is a survey up in the Important Topics section of the General Board.

Please take a few minutes and let us know how it has worked for you.

http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cb/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1313857806

Thanks

Bob

[Bonkers]

Kaboom?????? What are you wearing today - KABOOM??? Come on Danny Boy; don't tell me you've gone straight. I've got too much else to do without having to find another rump ranger. Especially one with as nice a rump as yours. Btw, what are you wearing today?

Ronny

[Bonkers]

Hmmm.... I think maybe I'll enter the fray with another perspective.

Yes, I think that psychedelics/oxygen are currently the most powerful weapons available to CH'ers who have the wherewithal to find/grow them and the nerve to violate the law and convention by taking them. That excludes an awful lot of CH'ers. I understand that other avenues are available to them (e.g. CH.com). However, psychedelics/oxygen don't work for everyone and/or may at some time cease working as they have for my son, Michael. If we really want to stay at the forefront of CH research rather than psychedelic research I think we should be open to discuss the use of anything that shows promise of providing relief to sufferers. This forum should be the place where CH'ers come to find information about the currently most effective methods of finding relief from their suffering - regardless of origin, legality, or public acceptance.

But maybe I've been misinformed. Maybe this forum's intention is to promote the exclusive use of psychedelics as weapons against CH. If that's the case, I should apologize for ever mentioning anything else that might help. So should most of you.

Ron