Bejeeber

Hi MEA, I've viewed a lot of first hand reports and discussions on O2, but I'm afraid I still can't claim to be an absolute expert. That won't stop me from giving you my impressions though. When I've aborted wake up hits in high cycle only to have them keep coming back every hour, I've felt it's just more a case of the O2 continually "postponing" a hit until I stop trying to sleep, at which point the abort may hold. GOOD QUESTION. All I can tell you is that I've been there too with the 20-30 minute abort times, and hanging on the O2 after the abort at a lower LPM setting for about 10 min would probably be all I'd be up for doing. Not to mention I don't tend to exactly have an infinite O2 supply! Haven't tried it personally, but yep, some folks do report success with coffee plus taurine pill(s) or powder. I suppose it goes without saying you'd want the coffee pre-made and instantly ready to drink. If you're not already hitting up the O2 gurus for their input at at the sister site, I bet that could be worthwhile: http://www.clusterheadaches.com/wwwboard2/index.html Really hoping you can get better sleep/less hits tonight by hook or by crook! Speaking of which, are you hyperventilating high flow 100% O2, or using the most effective delivery method, a demand valve system? When aborts are taking a long while to kick in, I figure bumping up the LPM is worth a try - that is if you're currently at 25 LPM or below.

Hi MEA! A couple ways some CH'ers have been able to avoid the O2 rebounds are: 1) Stay on the O2 for a good awhile after the abort is complete. Some say 5 minutes, I've seen others recommend staying on it as long again as it took to abort. 2) Gulp an energy drink or shot right before hitting the O2. OK there appears to be an obvious conflict with actual SLEEPING there, but many a headbanger has reported somehow easily being able to go back to sleep afterwards. And here's a good guide to the D3 protocol (which has also been claimed to help the O2 work better through improved arterial PH): http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cb/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1314134804

Agreed, that definitely is a helpful site. I'll just try'n interject some second hand info that I've heard from BB, a resident medical marijuana expert here: Ingesting as opposed to smoking it is considered by many to be more effective for migraines. Please correct me if I'm wrong BB.Â

Ah yes, the Walking Bean Pole Society. ;D [smiley=thumbup.gif]

Extremely frustrating ups and downs indeed, and who could be blamed for some jaded cynicism at this point? BUT I still think you're right CHfather - long shot or not, I think we do gotta keep trying. It wouldn't be the first time a phoenix has risen from the ashes despite any odds. I'll do my contributing and liking, and I hope lots of us will swallow our (legit) reservations and give this a good shot, since the payoff of a successful effort would likely be mind bogglingly revolutionary for CH'ers young, old, fat, skinny, and BB.

YAY for Walgreen's pharmacist. Between your beefed up arsenal and the fact that your cycle is likely in it's last throes anyway, it's starting to look to me like you're going to have one great vacation. 8-) Bon Voyage Ripper. Â

Hey Rip, here's a link to the instructions for partial dose injections with an imitrex syringe: http://www.clusterheadaches.com/imitrex.html This has been a good tried and true method, widely used by CH'ers for 14 (!!) years now. I recommend printing it out immediately, and like I did, keep the printout in your wallet so you'll have it with you wherever you go, until you have the procedure memorized. Self injection is surprisingly easy and often practically painless if you pinch some abdomen skin/fat to the side of the navel and inject there. You very well may cringe and flinch mightily like I did the first time I self injected, but then it's like "WTF?! Why was I frightened of this like a little cry baby!?" This really truly is nothing compared to the beastly alternative. The needle doesn't have to go deep BTW, just "under the skin" is how I've seen it described, so I got in the habit of putting it about half way in. Try not to hesitate when you're in position, just frikkin' go for it immediately, and realize how easy breezy it actually is (this is the kind of pep talk I gave myself ;D). 6 mg syringes have been standard forever, but in recent years there's been talk about 4 mg versions hitting the market. I would specify 6 mg, and you want the "kits" where they give you the syringes that are meant for loading into an auto-injector contraption (screw that mechanical auto-injector though - it may come as part of the package, but it's dead weight when using partial doses - you'll be tossing it over board ). After several injections, chances are you may at one point hit some little capillary just under the skin that can leak for a couple seconds. It's meaningless and inconsequential - it just manifests as what looks like a dark bruise, and it could make for a nifty tummy tattoo during your sun bathing cruise. I love your doctor :-* ;D. While you may need a super expert headache specialist neuro at one point, it sounds like she's the type who, just because she didn't receive decent training regarding CH, she isn't letting that stop her from researching it on her own, and that makes her a voonderbar doc indeed. [smiley=thumbup.gif] Here's hoping the beast will have completely finished his going out like a lion antics before your vacation launch. 8-)

I remember seeing a thread on the sister site started by a guy who was in cycle and was wondering whether to go on a planned fishing trip anyway, knowing he'd likely be hit more due to not having many CH fighting options at his disposal. I think EVERYONE except for me advised him to definitely go. Yep, except for me. But that's because I'm episodic, I can reschedule trips for when I'm not in cycle, and pre-busting I was able to make it through an 11 week cycle either aborting or preventing every single hit with meds, O2, etc. No trip is worth being hit to me. Everyone may still disagree, but if it was me I'd bail on the cruise, and focus instead on going completely hog freaking wild strategizing and building up contingency arsenals for beast counter-bashing (that preparedness to be able to dodge and weave when the beast shifted his tactics is how I beat him last time). I can see you're taking serious steps to be as prepared as possible with the prescriptions requests so that's good IMO. I think you should demand INJECTIONS come hell or high cruise water - you can potentially get 3 aborts from just one injector (!!), which means 6 aborts a day without even coming close to an OD level of dosage. That completely beats the ever living hell out of the inhaler scenario if you're getting hit often, and could make or break you right there. I'd go for the sputs too (I haven't actually tried 'em, but am impressed with what others have reported). As far as the plane rides are concerned, besides the imitrex and sputs, loading the pockets with energy shots can be a good thing! I'd also buzz the cruise peeps and make sure they'll have suitable energy drinks / shots on board. If not, or if you'd like to save $, you could pack a buncha energy shots in the luggage. One good thing about an imitrex inhaler: it can be used on the plane right during take off or landing etc. when the lavatory isn't available for that injecting we tend to find ourselves doing at 30,000 feet. I know some headbangers will call in the really big guns and go for a prednisone burst for a vacation trip - especially if it's a shorter trip, but that of course carries some definite risks of it's own, and it's a strategy that backfired pretty badly recently on poor Ricardo during his recent vacation. :-/ The fishing guy? I think he came back and reported he was glad he went on the trip. That was one time I was very glad not to be able to say "I told you so".

Yes No. I attribute the onset of mine to too many nights a week sitting next to a drummer who was bashing his crash cymbal about a foot from my ear, as my ears would ring afterwards, and eventually they never stopped ringing (this was about 14 years after the onset of my CH). Sorry, I haven't paid attention to that. It sure seems more severe when I'm having an unpleasant busting trip though! FWIW (which is likely NOTHING) I've always had ears that are over sensitive to damage from loud noise - my ears would be ringing after loud music when my friend's wouldn't.

Elly, thinking positive here, cautiously optimistic, and SUPER RELIEVED to hear about not even a shadow so far.Â

I'm not going to claim I have the definitive answer for you, but I can say that if it was me, I'd be prioritizing getting set up with high flow 100% O2 of the welding variety. Even if you were to stick with the meds, you'd want to still abort as many attacks as possible with the O2. And the O2 is what has helped so many headbangers get through their detox before busting.

Fingers crossed so vigorously for Jan that I think I almost just broke a couple of them!

Agreed with CHf, including the feckers part. :-/ Imitrex is an abortive that you take right at onset of an attack. The inhaler version is pretty darn effective, the injection form is very darn effective. Some of the caveats are the possible side effects including rebound attacks, and the definite bust blocking. Valporic acid, AKA Depakote, is not what I think of as the first preventative drug usually tried for CH. Verapamil is more common (so much so that I incorrectly recalled that it was valporic acid for a minute there and posted a rambling opinion on it, which I've now edited out). :-[

Ooh that's a tuffy (for me at least), and I'm thinking it would be helpful to know how much worked for you last time. If 1G worked before, then since you dread the trip I'd say maybe stick with that so you'll have an additional dose still at your disposal. If you'll have continued access to more MM, well some say 2g makes for a less anxiety ridden (and possibly more effective) trip than 1g, but if you're already tripping when you read this, you're probably in no place to be making further dosage decisions and maybe ya oughta just try to enjoy your therapeutic ride and feel the love and good wishes coming to you from your clusterbusters family here. [smiley=vrolijk_1.gif] Here's to this being another really successful bust for you! [smiley=thumbup.gif]

Hey Unc, Glad to see you're receiving such excellent advice, and if there's one universal truth about the CH experience, this unfortunately seems to be it:

Dam. :-? Grasping at straws here, but are you on any prescription or other meds right now? (some are known to block the effectiveness of busting)

Oh great now we're cuckoo to boot. I thought this part was notable: "The researchers said the findings could be a reflection of continued exposure to pain, as with chronic forms of headache, and of the risk of sudden, intense pain, as with headaches that are episodic. However, it may be more complicated than that, they acknowledged." My answer to this... "..our question is, ‘could the response be considered as a manifestation of existing psychological traits that may be at the origin of the primary headache?" ...is: I seriously doubt it.

Oh. Well that's not good at all. As we say in the states, "Dog Darnit!". OK, I shouldn't incriminate others, in actuality I'm probably the only one who says that. Sounds to me like it's time for you to move to partial dose sumatriptan injections. With them, the extended visit from one Mr. Leonard would likely have been avoidable last night. You could have hit him with a second dose, and if your experience is (hopefully) like mine, an injection can last ya for 3 hours when 'ol Lenny is coming on like a locomotive for the night hits in high cycle, is laughing at the O2, and does NOT want to be denied his game of Scrabble. Feck Leonard.

Tyke - I'm enjoying your report and I like your slogan too. ;D 8-)

What CHS said - is there a link to the story?

Amen. We all need to stop referring to our condition using the term "headache" and stop doing it yesterday IMO, otherwise we're just asking to be treated accordingly.

Hey jimmys - I can't speak for Chris of course, but that 's never stopped me from butting in before , so.... In order to inject 3mg trex, the the partial dose method described in this "Extending Your Imitrex" link is widely used: http://www.clusterheadaches.com/imitrex.html

That is an interesting quote and a good find. In a national institute of health .gov article no less. Thanks Shocked (I've pasted an excerpt from it below): "..Interestingly, in May 2002, he took 1 g of ‘‘magic mushrooms’’ (containing psilocybin) which rendered him pain free for one month; since then he has been taking magic mushrooms 1 g once every one to two months, which renders him pain free for two to six weeks."

Hey Tyke, Hating that you're getting hit right now, but enjoying the engaging way in which you converse. ;D I'm thinking your verapamil dose sounds low for CH - maybe some headbangers well versed in verap will be along to comment on that. It is known to take awhile to kick in. :-/ If you acquire RC first, it can be a good strategy to continue to pursue the procurement of the McMushies, so you'll have them ready to go as your back up plan just in case, and won't be caught with knickers down. Ha, I said knickers because you're British. Sigh, well it's a bit of a dirty little secret, but this is a familiar pattern - I've talked to other CH'ers who like me have experienced the same phenomenon. Thank gawsh that busting can potentially render it a moot point.

That does sound like the hallmark of the way a peak cycle behaves for some of us. :-/ Dammit. I hope it's a really short peak. Sorry if we've gone over this ad nauseam before jimmys, but are you hyperventilating high flow non-rebreather O2? There are those of us who need to go higher than 25 LPM or use a demand valve system. This may also be super old and therefore annoying news to you, but in the spirit of leaving no stone unturned, some headbangers find that slamming the energy drink/shot right before the O2 can make the difference between abort or no abort.